Social Security

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Originally Posted by surasak

I have never stated that I should not pay my fair share...but if the law allows for legal deductions then why not take advantage of that?

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That means it is ok for you to take advantage of the laws of the land but if it doesn't benefit you directly, then you think others shouldn't.

And you still havent told me where Blackgang and others like he's money that they paid in contributions went?

If it went to support a earlier generation, I don't see how you can complain.

You sound like an extremely selfish man. You don't pay any income tax because you can find away around it, but benefit from others paying tax.
You can't get out of paying SS because it is better for you to pay because of your stepdaughter, but think that you are supporting people who have paid their way while they were working and probably paying their share of taxes too.

Is your stepdaughter going to a public school paid for by taxpayers of which you are not one?

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Originally Posted by Lily

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Originally Posted by surasak

I have never stated that I should not pay my fair share...but if the law allows for legal deductions then why not take advantage of that?

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That means it is ok for you to take advantage of the laws of the land but if it doesn't benefit you directly, then you think others shouldn't.

And you still havent told me where Blackgang and others like he's money that they paid in contributions went?

If it went to support a earlier generation, I don't see how you can complain.

You sound like an extremely selfish man. You don't pay any income tax because you can find away around it, but benefit from others paying tax.
You can't get out of paying SS because it is better for you to pay because of your stepdaughter, but think that you are supporting people who have paid their way while they were working and probably paying their share of taxes too.

Is your stepdaughter going to a public school paid for by taxpayers of which you are not one?

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Public schools are largely financed by property taxes.

Actually, Surasak does pay taxes: sales taxes, user fees, and ahem....yes....SSA. He also pay gasoline taxes.

He pays.

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Originally Posted by Lily

your stepdaughter going to a public school paid for by taxpayers of which you are not one?

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Originally Posted by Milkman

Public schools are largely financed by property taxes.

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So those who don't own a property are not contributing to building and running public schools..

Do you pay property tax Surasak ?

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Originally Posted by Milkman

Public schools are largely financed by property taxes.

Actually, Surasak does pay taxes: sales taxes, user fees, and ahem....yes....SSA. He also pay gasoline taxes.

He pays.

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Yes I do pay property tax.

Not only that but also the government gets to borrow my money interest free for up to a year...forcing me and others to have to apply to get the money refunded.

With regards to SS: there is no trust fund (unless you also claim that SecTres, Clinton, and Bush are all lying as well). The Trust Fund (under the law) DOES NOT HOLD T-BILLS.

Special-issue securities, Social Security trust funds

Nobody can purchase the special bonds the Trust Fund gets in exchange for handing over the surplus to the Federal government. This is why the bonds are worthless pieces of paper that fill a single three-ring binder in West Virginia.

There is no pot of money. It's pay as you go. People who collect now are collecting from those paying into the system. People who paid into the system in the past handed their money directly over to someone else. At some point in the beginning of the scam people who collected never paid one cent to anyone else. It isn't collecting the money you physically paid in (otherwise why would there be so much objection to personal retirement accounts?). It's a scam: plain and simple.

^You have a very strange way of seeing things.

Scam, my foot!

Not every one pays sales tax either, and some states do not charge income tax, some states charge both.
But He don't figure SSA finances to well, so he might not know what tax he pays and which he cheats.
already said this, but now hw has it in his link and still says no money,

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• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issueInvestment
frequencyMaturityCertificates of indebtednessDailyNext June 30BondsJune 301 to 15 years

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Originally Posted by blackgang

Not every one pays sales tax either, and some states do not charge income tax, some states charge both.

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Fascinating, I didn't know this varies so much between states. Is there no "Federal Tax"?

The sales tax (VAT) is in fact a consumption tax, as Surasak proposes, but is collected at the point of sale, not from the individual spending.
This tax in itself as a sole measure of taxation is regarded as unfair, according to social-democracy and other brands of socialism, since it is not related to an individuals means, but income tax on a sliding scale is proportionate. Most nations apply a mix of the 2.

Yes there is also a fed tax, there is all kinds of tax in the STATES, property tax, personal property tax, income tax, sales tax. inheritance tax, gift tax, shit they will tax you on everything and as you said there is a sliding tax on income.
In California they charge you sales tax on everything you buy except on some food items I think, but 7% on most things and that is a chunk when you buy a $50k car. plus income tax.
Next state north is Oregon and no sales tax, they charge you income tax.
I owned a home in Portland, just an ordinary residence house and the property tax was $2,000 a year. And Real property tax is what supports the schools.

Then on north to Washington, they didn't used to charge an income tax but you did pay on everything else.
Then of coarse you have tax on fuel and shit, as well as fed tax on most stuff.

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Originally Posted by Lily

^You have a very strange way of seeing things.

Scam, my foot!

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Lily are you a U.S. citizen?

The reason why I am asking is because the Oz system and the U.S. system are very different.

The SSA debate has gone on for many decades.

When I was in high school 20 years ago this was a heated topic.

And not just between the younger generation (mine) and the Boomers, and seniors.

Within each of these generations, people don't agree on what should be done.

But what we do know, is that Social Security is a train crash happening now.

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Originally Posted by blackgang

Then on north to Washington, they didn't used to charge an income tax but you did pay on everything else.
Then of coarse you have tax on fuel and shit, as well as fed tax on most stuff.

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Yes, Blackgang.

I'm from Washington state and we are one of the 2 or 3 three states that have a sales tax but not state income tax.

I believe sales tax in Washington state is 8.9% on everything you buy except for certain food items.

This is a very unusual way to get revenue.

If my state instituted a state income taxe, they would do something like this:

Cut the sales tax to say, 4.5%

And start a state income tax of 4.5%

To equal 9.0%.


I'd rather keep the sales tax only.

If I want to pay, I buy things. I'm not a shopper, so I don't.


(Those that live near Oregon on the Washington side of the border can avoid paying state income taxes in WA and then go shopping for non-car items in Oregon. :))

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Originally Posted by blackgang

Not every one pays sales tax either, and some states do not charge income tax, some states charge both.
But He don't figure SSA finances to well, so he might not know what tax he pays and which he cheats.
already said this, but now hw has it in his link and still says no money,

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• The certificates of indebtedness are issued on a daily basis for the investment of receipts not required to meet current expenditures, and they mature on the next June 30 following the date of issue.
• Special-issue bonds are normally acquired only when special issues of either type mature on June 30. The bonds have maturities ranging from one to fifteen years.

The above properties of special issue securities are summarized in the following table.

Type of special issueInvestment
frequencyMaturityCertificates of indebtednessDailyNext June 30BondsJune 301 to 15 years

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Read what it says. Temp. 0-365 day bonds become permanent bonds. Permanent bonds are redeemed for more bonds.

There is no trust fund.

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Originally Posted by Milkman

I believe sales tax in Washington state is 8.9% on everything you buy except for certain food items.

This is a very unusual way to get revenue.

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Yes, and very low as well, there must be some big spenders in Washington to create enough revenue. :)

they do not need short term bonds as they are there for the long haul, they spend the paper that you pay with and if not put it in long term bonds.
But friend you are so stupid that I will let you have this as you have hooted on the same horn for so long now that your mouth looks like you been suckin a door knob.

They don't redeem the bonds because right now enough fools are paying into the system to keep the checks flowing to scared seniors (hint: that's why it's called a surplus).

Wait until the inflows fail to exceed outlays and we'll see how it really works. You'll likely be dead by then, so, it's obvoius why you want to keep the status quo.

Not Really Stroller, everything you buy except a loaf of bread is 9% tax, figure that on a new car, travel trailer, boat, hunting boots, skis, and by the end of the year you have paid a damn fine hunk of cash.
Some folks try to buy an Oregon car and just leave the reg. in Oregon, or motor homes in Oregon, works tiol they see the thing in your driveway a few times then it is payback time.

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Originally Posted by stroller

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Originally Posted by Milkman

I believe sales tax in Washington state is 8.9% on everything you buy except for certain food items.

This is a very unusual way to get revenue.

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Yes, and very low as well, there must be some big spenders in Washington to create enough revenue. :)

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Illustrates my point exactly. No income tax is needed to fund government.

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You'll likely be dead by then, so, it's obvoius why you want to keep the status quo

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Last time,,, Ok stupid I payed into it for 50 years so why the hell wouldn't i want to keep it, i got money in there and they are giving it back as they said they would.
I also have union money coming back, I never seen that money as the union contracts today have about a $20 an hour benefit package that is voted on by the members and it pays ins for your family, pension fund and other things, so when a man makes $20 an hour wages it costs the co $40 an hour for that man.
But I still feel i am entitled to my pension from them too, ya see i paid for many years, same as SSA.
But I also paid income tax of which they got to keep a damn good share of, until I got tired of paying 50% to 65% of my gross then I quit for awhile, and only paid 10%, so I saved $287,000 for the 9 years that I was exempt, after my 10% was paid.
But I never flipped burgers either. or clerked at 7-11

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Illustrates my point exactly. No income tax is needed to fund government.

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What the hell you say,, you don't pay anyway,, might have them look you over and see why you got enough to sponsor a immigrant but dont have enough to pay taxes.

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Originally Posted by stroller

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Originally Posted by Milkman

I believe sales tax in Washington state is 8.9% on everything you buy except for certain food items.

This is a very unusual way to get revenue.

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Yes, and very low as well, there must be some big spenders in Washington to create enough revenue. :)

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The state of WA also gets revenue by having higher taxes/fees on new vehicle and license registration, and other things (I forgot). Part of the tax on gasoline goes to the state (and Feds as well).

I was in business there for awhile too, and they tax the piss outta you, so I dont like it

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Originally Posted by surasak

Wait until the inflows fail to exceed outlays and we'll see how it really works.

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Boom!

This is the whole point of this topic.


This is what Greenspan has been saying for years.....

This is what Bernanke is now saying.....


This is what this whole issue is about.

I wouldn't worry suksak, just keep paying it in as you pay nothing else and they will finger it so you underachievers will get something, the libs always take care of you people,,

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Originally Posted by blackgang

want to keep it, i got money in there and they are giving it back as they said they would.

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So why not keep your money in the first place instead of trusting politicians to give it back?

Well, they aren't actually giving back your money because your money was given to some other goon.

The ones who made out like a bandit were the original scammers who paid nothing and got everyone else's money (sort of how it works now).

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Who was the first to receive Social Security benefits?
During the Social Security program's start-up period between January 1937 and December 1939, the SSA only made one-time, lump-sum payments. According to SSA historians, Ernest Ackerman was the first recipient of Social Security benefits -- 17 cents, paid to him in January 1937. The first person to receive monthly benefits was Ida May Fuller from Vermont, who retired in November 1939 and started collecting benefits in January 1940 at age 65. In the three years that Fuller worked under the program, she contributed a total of $24.75. Her first benefit check was for $22.54 and she went on collecting benefits for 35 years, until 1975, when she died at age 100. In this time she collected a total of $22,888.92

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There now I am real glad I could make this old dolls reclining years more comfortable for her, but you sir, being an asshole will never get that warm fuzzy feeling.

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In the three years that Fuller worked she paid a total of $24.75 in taxes. Her first payment under the pyramid scheme was for $22.54 and she went on taking and taking for 35 years. Although she was only entitled to her original $24.75 the taxpayers were forced to hand over a total of $22,888.92 or a 915% return on her money.

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Fixed that for you.

Question for you: if everyone collects more than they were taxed then how does the scheme survive?

I think this will be D.O.A.....Dead on arrival.

There won't be any changes.

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Brownback pushes private Soc. Sec. accounts

Plan similar to unsuccessful effort by President Bush



https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gifUpdated: 6:39 a.m. PT March 30, 2007
WASHINGTON - Republican presidential candidate Sam Brownback says Social Security can be fixed with private savings accounts.

Under a plan he's offering, workers would invest a little less than half of their payroll taxes in stocks and other market-based investment funds. It's like a plan pushed unsuccessfully by President Bush.
Brownback, a favorite of conservatives, will have more to say on the topic when he speaks to an anti-tax group tomorrow in Florida.


Under his plan, people could stay in the old system; but young people would automatically get private retirement accounts when they enter the workforce.

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Link: Brownback pushes private Soc. Sec. accounts - Sam Brownback News - MSNBC.com