Thread: Buddhism - Is It Only Partly Right?

^ Yep, Pat Condell say much the same here in this vid.

Nice words mate.

[QUOTE=benbaaa;2228349]I think all religions hijack some pretty standard human codes and notions, pretty them up a bit, and then pretend that unless you sign up, you're somehow less than someone who does.

2nd hand is what it feels like and is. organised religions rob us of something that is key to the miracle of life. whatever it is they hi-jacked, you can only conform to it and you believe it to be a god's blessing that you were chosen to be a part of it. praise the lord mind you, some had to be tortured or brutally murdered in front of others to instill fear so that folk toed the party line and could be controlled from the inside including sex.
also what pat condell says, morals are core from inside along with compassion and Love.

yes organised religions rob people of the basics.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

yes organised religions rob people of the basics.

people join them voluntarily... everyone can nowadays make up their mind and if not, then the population has to get rid of their dictators... if they dont, then they dont want to...

who wants to join such a club may do so...
we are not all the same...

people today don't have their own mind
it belongs to the state
though you may kid yourself.

Originally Posted by RickThai

However, one aspect that seems very non-intuitive is the goal of removing the "good" emotions along with the "bad" emotions.

It is the teaching "of Non-attachment." Good or bad judgements show attachment to the world. If you are truly on the "path," then good and bad have no meaning to you.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

plain wrong to scare kids into being one religion or another.

i got a whole new outfit, suit, shirt,tie, new shoes and had my hair drowned in brylcream and told it was a special day. conned more like it.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Originally Posted by alitongkat

people join them voluntarily...

It would be great if that were true, but for most it isn't. They're indoctrinated as kids, and in adult life it can be very difficult to break free of that early indoctrination. I have absolutely no problem with adults choosing to believe whatever they like. But it's plain wrong to scare kids into being one religion or another.

indoctrination and scaring can happen...

but what if you look at societies, where people are brought up entirely without any religion? e.g. communism...

are they any good?

they dont have to seem any more values than material ones...?

but from what i heard the communist could be locked up in
a mental institution because his thoughts
were anti-communist
and be forgotten about forever.

they tried to change the person from the outside
but that doesn't work either.

Originally Posted by alitongkat

but what if you look at societies, where people are brought up entirely without any religion? e.g. communism...

I'm not arguing that. I'm simply saying that the idea of a "Christian child" or a "Buddhist child" or whatever is about as absurd as a "Thatcherite child" or a "Keynsian child" or a "Marxist child". Kids don't get Christianity any more than they get Marxism. By all means, educate them, but don't force any one religion on them. Religion is something they should be able to choose for themselves or reject when they're old enough.

^ Well said, totally agree. Unfortunately the desire to convert seems to be built in with the need to follow a religion. Both stem from the same inadequacies and insecurities.

I'm even trying not to force my love of Chelsea FC on my son and am allowing him to make his own choices (as long as he chooses Chelsea)

Originally Posted by benbaaa

I'm not arguing that. I'm simply saying that the idea of a "Christian child" or a "Buddhist child" or whatever is about as absurd as a "Thatcherite child" or a "Keynsian child" or a "Marxist child". Kids don't get Christianity any more than they get Marxism. By all means, educate them, but don't force any one religion on them. Religion is something they should be able to choose for themselves or reject when they're old enough.

with the christian child - the baptism - it came from times when children would die more often, after birth... it was found important to have it baptised as early as possible...

of course, parents do transfer their religious believes onto their children and want them to be the same, as they consider the way perfectly alright... yes, its not always "good", but the child does "inherit" or gets forced down so many parental values, that maybe the religious ones are more normal than others...? sometimes....

in judaism and in christianity there are similar events (for my understanding), when the child is 12 to 15... "confirmation" and "bar/bat mitzva"... its the public and own choice of the child to confirm its believes - to commit in free will and at own choice to the religious society... of course, this is nowadays much too early, as it might not be possible to get out of it - if parents want your attendance...

but religion itself, asks LATER in life, to "confirm" the believes...
or to rethink and make your own decision...

A lot of interesting thoughts and comments are being brought up. I've been doing some more reading and studying on the topic, and one of the things that is starting to become more clear to me, is that the Lord Buddha taught that if you spent time, effort, and energy in pursuing "sensual pleasures" (i.e. girls, food, material belongings, etc), you will probably never get past the "superficiality" of those experiences, but by "letting go" of these attachments, you become more able to focus and train your mind in order to allow a deeper understanding and appreciation of the knowledge of "enlightenment".

Interestingly, when the Buddha first experienced his "enlightenment", he was hesitant to teach it to anyone, because he believed it too complex and subtle for anyone but the most determined to understand.

At first, he only spoke of his "understanding" with a few "holy men" who he knew were committed to understanding spiritual enlightenment.

Therefore, it is no wonder, that Buddhism has manifested itself into so many varied methods of teaching and rituals.

Santi (peace),

RickThai

^ Remember Rick, Buddha was once a man fully engaged in wealth, Royalty and carnal pleasure. His accidental travel outside the gates of the palace led him to question his existence having never seen "old people before." Siddhartha was a man, not a God. Something forgotten by many religious followers.

Looking at most religions, they to were formed by mortal men, who elevated themselves to being greater than man himself. Buddha, Jesus, Mohammad, Krishna/myth...Mormons, Scientology, Catholicism, etc. All follow the writings of scribes.

Originally Posted by sabang

Buddhism is fine by me but I don't view it as a religion, rather a philosophy.

Agree, calling Buddhism a religion is a misnomer; no gods, no heaven/hell, no dogma.
Unfortunately, what humans do to the original precepts, has many forms of Buddhism that are indistinguishable from a religion.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

but don't force any one religion on them.

Yes, that's a form of child abuse, IMO.

Originally Posted by Grower

calling Buddhism a religion is a misnomer; no gods, no heaven/hell, no dogma

Godhead = the wheel of reincarnation
Heaven/hell = transcendence, Nirvana
Dogma = karma, five precepts, eightfold path...

Still a carrot on a stick for the gullible.

Isn't the very first concept of Buddhism, that the world is full of suffering.

Originally Posted by FlyFree

The thing with them is they are not really valuable for their ideas, they are mostly valuable for their potential as control tools.

Actually the writings/teachings were designed/intended to give every person a model of "how to live." Right action, was the intent.

Agree within many organized religious organizations these teachings have been diluted, changed to gain mass acceptance and approval. Control, as you say was one intent, power another and lastly financial gain.

Fortunately there are Wat's that remain untarnished by the temptations of the outer world. Belief systems grow stronger under greater pressure by non-believers. Having the will to remain steadfast in not only one's belief system, but in the daily practice of those beliefs is quite an accomplishment when the world around you is tearing at you to falter.

Meditation is the gateway to freedom and to God. It is the "Razors Edge." True believers do not try or attempt to convert.

[QUOTE="ltnt"]Meditation is the gateway to freedom and to God. It is the "Razors Edge."

'Will' being linked to desire.
something the self projects to get a favourable result
self being motivated by an image or state of being, to achieve, to realise
and 'using' a method of meditation to get there
will simply give you a mechanised brain.
to believe in or have beliefs in something spiritual outside is a human decease
Meditation 'is'
there is no comparing or judgement, self operating,,,,thought is absent.
only then can there be 'Attention'.
only then can the unconditioning take place.
which is Meditation.
and this can happen anywhere, anytime.

any doctrine that offers something [reward] in the future is an illusion.
only the glorious 'Now'

Originally Posted by Jon Snow

Most people cannot accept that this is all there is.
That they will never be here again.
So they take refuge in some religion.

Best thing to do is try to make a small difference,
Leave things a little bit better that you found them.

When I die, I will leave behind two sons and their offspring.
I will leave a big fcukoff house in Isaan for the wife to enjoy.
I will leave a nice house that I built in Bangkok for a little friend of mine.
I will have turned a few apprentices into engineers who do it right.
I will have experienced many things that the guys I grew up with can only imagine.

Enough for me, they can keep their religions.

It appears you lived a life, well spent. Live long, and die well.

RickThai

Originally Posted by FlyFree

Originally Posted by RickThai

A lot of interesting thoughts and comments are being brought up. I've been doing some more reading and studying on the topic, and one of the things that is starting to become more clear to me, is that the Lord Buddha taught that if you spent time, effort, and energy in pursuing "sensual pleasures" (i.e. girls, food, material belongings, etc), you will probably never get past the "superficiality" of those experiences, but by "letting go" of these attachments, you become more able to focus and train your mind in order to allow a deeper understanding and appreciation of the knowledge of "enlightenment".

I make the statement sometimes that there are few really stupid people, just lots of people who choose to be stupid. (This remark is not directly aimed at you, it's a generic remark, if that's the correct term.)

And this fact is what all religions and so many 'philosophies', notably Buddhism and Confucianism exploit.

Anybody who cares to trust their own mind and inherent latent intelligence (of even a relatively low level) can figure out the 'morals' and (sometimes) truths espoused by these (Watch out for the plethora of partial-truths, they are the hooks). They are pretty low-level philosophies.

The thing with them is they are not really valuable for their ideas, they are mostly valuable for their potential as control tools. Even Buddhism.

Confucianism, unlike the others, is mainly low-level philosophy only.


I mean, the point you made above is self-evident, if anyone sits down and thinks about it for a moment.

So these basically save you from having to do a bit of thinking, spoon-feeding you a few basic truths and morals as the sugar in the overwhelming bitter medicine of bullshit that turns you into a controlled robot. Is it worth the price if you can easily do it yourself?


One thing that has amazed me throughout my life is how many people try and keep their bodies in shape, and how few their brains.

The gym for brains is not found in reading and listening (those can increase your knowledge, not your ability to reason), it's found in thought and reasoning.

Sign up to the Temple of FlyFreeism today. We only expect 5%, not 10% like the other greedy bastards. (Note: Any donations of food should exclude fuckin rice and include high-grade, properly aged, steak. Thank you.)

The thing I find valuable in Buddhism, is that it makes me think beyond what I would normally be satisfied with.

For example, I have been an engineer for over 25 years. I was also very opinionated when it comes to telling "the truth". I thought as long as what I was saying was "true", then it was other peoples problem if they didn't like hearing the "truth".

When it comes to "right speech", the Lord Buddha carries it much further. As an example, if something it "true", but not beneficial to others, then you shouldn't say it. Why? Because it shows a lack of compassion.

I started a post entitled "God, Seriously", looking back, I shouldn't have started that post. Although, it makes points which I think are valid and true, it really served no purpose other than to make some people feel "not good".

Hopefully, I will think more before saying something that I believe is true, yet may be upsetting to some people, while serving no beneficial point.

RickThai