Thread: 9/11 was an inside job

Originally Posted by Latindancer

The Shanksville crash site was inspected by many aircraft and crash experts .....experienced people who had been to many crash sites before....and the conclusions they came to have far, FAR more weight than the conclusions (or perhaps I should say paranoid speculation) that ENT, Albert and the idiotic troll Butterfly come out with.

Same happened at the Pentagon. NOBODY of any real credibility said anything to the contrary. The people who inspected both sites were (as you would expect) experts in their field and hugely experienced in crash investigation.

What a pack of outright lies!

UA Flight 93 Crash in Shanksville
Witnesses

Homer Barron The plane came down on farmland reclaimed from a coal-mining operation. Barron and Phillips drove to the crash scene and found a smoky hole in the ground. A few firefighters had already begun pouring water onto the debris.
"It didn't look like a plane crash because there was nothing that looked like a plane," Barron said.
"I never seen anything like it," Barron said. "Just like a big pile of charcoal." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

Kathy Blades "Authorities also sought to explain why a number of residents saw a small, unmarked jet circling over the crash site shortly after. Workers at a marina saw it, and so did Kathy Blades, who was in her small summer cottage about a quarter-mile from the impact site.
Blades and her son ran outside after the crash and saw the jet, with sleek back wings and an angled cockpit, race overhead. "My son said, 'I think we're under attack!' " She said she was so shocked by the crash she can't say exactly how long after the impact it was.
A few days later, the FBI offered a possible explanation for what the witnesses saw. Authorities said that a private Falcon 20 jet bound for nearby Johnstown was in the vicinity and was asked by authorities to descend and help survey the crash site. But the authorities didn't identify the owner of the jet, nor explain why it was airborne some 40 minutes after the Federal Aviation Administration ordered all planes to land at the nearest airport." - Philadelphia Daily News (11/18/01)

Robert Blair 41, also of Stoystown, was driving his coal-hauling route when he saw the plane crash a few miles away. He noticed the second plane because he had heard on his truck radio earlier that the FAA had grounded all aircraft, and he said it was flying east -- the same direction as Flight 93. He said the FBI asked him whether it looked like a military plane, but Blair remembered only that it was "a big jet flying low." - Washington Post (09/14/01)

Jim Brandt "At least four witnesses who were at the crash scene within five minutes of the crash told.. that they saw another plane in the area.
Somerset County resident Jim Brandt said that he saw another plane in the area. He said it stayed there for one or two minutes before leaving.

Another Somerset County resident, Tom Spinello, said that he saw the plane. He said that it had high back wings.
Both men said that the plane had no markings on it, either civilian or military. The FBI said that it does not think that it was a military plane, but it would not rule out the possibility of it being a civilian plane. "

"A few miles north of Lambertsville, yard man Terry Butler,
"It dropped out of the clouds," too low for a commercial flight, Butler said. The plane rose slightly, trying to gain altitude, then "it just went flip to the right and then straight down."

"Ron Delano, “If they hadn’t told us a plane had wrecked, you wouldn’t have known. It looked like it hit and disintegrated,” Delano said." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

"Fleegle, marina owner Jim Brant and two of Brant’s employees were among the dozens who witnessed the crash from Indian Lake. Fleegle had just returned to the marina to get fuel for a boat that had run out of gas when Carol Delasko called him into the drydock barn to watch news of the World Trade Center attack.
Delasko, who ran outside moments later, said she thought someone had blown up a boat on the lake. “It just looked like confetti raining down all over the air above the lake,” she said." - pittsburghlive.com (09/14/01)

"Carol Delasko, who works at the marina, said she saw a light cloud that stretched several hundred feet across rising about 200 feet into the air moments after the crash." - post-gazette.com (09/14/01)

David Escherich Escherich recalled his sense of disbelief when he arrived at the scene of the downed aircraft.
“There wasn’t a trace of an airplane,” he said. “There was only a crater where it made impact.

Anna Ruth Fisher “After the crash, another jet went near over to look.” Her mother, Anna B. Fisher, adds, “We were looking at the smoke cloud when we saw the jets circling up there.” -

John Fleegle Crash debris found 8 miles away
"John Fleegle, an Indian Lake Marina employee, said FBI agents were skeptical of his reports about debris in the lake until they traveled to the lake shore Wednesday afternoon.
Fleegle, marina owner Jim Brant and two of Brant’s employees were among the dozens who witnessed the crash from Indian Lake.

“All of a sudden the lights flickered and we joked that maybe they were coming for us. Then we heard engines screaming close overhead. The building shook. We ran out, heard the explosion and saw a fireball mushroom,” said Fleegle, pointing to a clearing on a ridge at the far end of the lake.
Fleegle, Brant and a fellow marina worker, Tom Spinelli, jumped in a truck and rushed to the crash site.
In the woods, they saw only a crater and tiny pieces of debris.
Fleegle said he climbed on the roof of an abandoned cabin and tossed down a burning seat cushion that had landed there.
By Wednesday morning, crash debris began washing ashore at the marina. Fleegle said there was something that looked like a rib bone amid pieces of seats, small chunks of melted plastic and checks." - pittsburghlive.com (09/14/01)

Like I said, probably within, within 45 seconds or a minute of impact, we were there. We were there before any fireman, any paramedics, or anybody; we were on site. When we got there, there was a plane flying up above and he was smart, he flew straight for the sun, so you couldn't, you couldn't look at it and see exactly what type of plane, or if it was a fighter or what it was. But we caught a glimpse of it and as he was swinging, he was basically traveling in the same direction as the plane.

So I was sitting there talking... there was another gentleman sitting in the room in front of me that was retired from the Air Force and soon as he heard me say that he immediately stopped me and said, "Tell me this..." and I told him and he said, "Well, I'm retired from the Air Force." He said that plane was shot down and I said, "Why?" and he said because whenever the flickered, they zap the radar frequency on everything before they shoot and he said, "That's why your lights flickered. Your lights didn't flicker from the impact, your lights flickered because they zapped the radar system before they shot it." - GNN [See clip of interview: youtube]

Tom Fritz "When it decided to drop, it dropped all of a sudden, like a stone," said Tom Fritz, 63. Fritz was sitting on his porch on Lambertsville Road, about a quarter mile from the crash site, when he heard a sound that "wasn't quite right" and looked up in the sky.
"It was sort of whistling," he said. "It was going so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was." - sptimes.com (09/12/01)

Rose Goodwin14, "When the plane hit, it sounded like something just fell on the roof. Everybody sort of panicked," she said. "I went to the window and saw all this smoke coming up and I just pointed and screamed." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

Georgetta Guynn and her husband, Alvin, “We looked up and there was this big jet going overhead and it was pretty low and we could not hear the engines. It was like they were off. And then about a minute or two later, we got some binoculars and we were looking through them and there was all this smoke in the air and we knew it crashed." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Chris Konick, reporter,: The only thing you can see from where we where, ah, was a big gouge in the earth and some broken trees. We could see some people working, walking around in the area, but from where we could see it, there wasn't much left.
Reporter: Any large pieces of debris at all?
Konicki: Na, there was nothing, nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there.
Reporter: Smoke? Fire?
Konicki: Nothing. It was absolutely quite. It was, uh, actually very quiet. Um, nothing going on down there. No smoke. No fire. Just a couple of people walking around. They looked like part of the NTSB crew walking around, looking at the pieces.
Reporter: How big would you say that hole was?
Konicki: From my estimates, I would guess it was probably about 20ft to 15ft long and probably 10ft wide.

Reporter: What could you see on the ground if anything other than dirt and ash and...
Konicki: You couldn't see anything. You could just see dirt, ash and people walking around, broken trees..." - FOX (09/11/01)

"The mangled heap of iron and steel actually belongs to Rollock Inc., a scrap metal business owned and managed by the father-and-son team of Tony and Chris Kordell of Bedford County.
Chris Kordell, the company's vice president, said he was the first person on the scene when United Airlines Flight 93 went down.
"At first I thought it was our oxygen tank exploding, but then I realized that wouldn't have been loud enough," said Kordell, who speaks in the lilting accent of his native Australia. "When I ran out of the office, I saw a tail of black smoke." - pittsburghlive.com (09/11/02)

Nevin Lambert We know it crashed, but not why; FBI is silent, fueling "shot down" rumors
"The plane seemed to be fully, or largely, intact. "I didn't see no smoke, nothing," said Nevin Lambert, an elderly farmer who witnessed the crash from his side yard less than a half-mile away.

Lambert also said he also later found a couple of pieces of debris, one a piece of metal, less than 12 inches across, with some insulation attached. To those who are debating the causes of the crash, the debris is particularly significant because heavier farflung debris would suggest that something happened to cause the plane to break up before it hit the ground." - Philadelphia Daily News (11/18/01)

Nina Lensbouer "... I got there and there was nothing, nothing there but charcoal. Instantly, it was charcoal." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)
"Nena Lensbouer, who had prepared lunch for the workers at the scrap yard overlooking the crash site, was the first person to go up to the smoking crater.
Lensbouer told AFP that the hole was five to six feet deep and smaller than the 24-foot trailer in her front yard. She described hearing “an explosion, like an atomic bomb”—not a crash.
Lensbouer called 911 and stayed on the line as she ran across the reclaimed land of the former strip mine to within 15 feet of the smoking crater.
Lensbouer told AFP that she did not see any evidence of a plane then or at any time during the excavation at the site, an effort that reportedly recovered 95 percent of the plane and 10 percent of the human remains." - americanfreepress.net (09/17/04)

Tim Lensbouer "I heard it for 10 or 15 seconds and it sounded like it was going full bore," said Tim Lensbouer, 35" - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)
Kelly Leverknight

"Kelly Leverknight was watching news of the attacks on New York and Washington when she heard the plane.
It sounded like it was flying low above her home in rural Pennsylvania, moving from west to east. It was an odd enough sound that she stepped outside to have a look.
"I heard the plane going over and I went out the front door and I saw the plane going down," said Leverknight, 36. "It was headed toward the school, which panicked me, because all three of my kids were there.
"Then you heard the explosion and felt the blast and saw the fire and smoke." - sptimes.com (09/12/01)

Barry Lichty(mayor of Indian Lake Borough)...said the ground shook and the town’s electricity went out. He called the utility company to find out the cause.
Later, Lichty learned that a plane crash had disrupted service to the borough.
“I went to the scene, but stayed about 100 yards away. I don’t think people wanted to get too close for fear of what they might see,”
he said." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

"Barry Lichty, a US Navy veteran and mayor of Indian Lake Borough (just to the east of where Flight 93 crashes), is watching television with his wife. He says he hears “a loud roar above the house that sounded like a missile. ... Shortly thereafter, we heard an explosion and a tremor. My first reaction, as a former utility employee, was that maybe someone shot a missile into the substation.” He says Flight 93 “did not come over my house. I don’t know what we heard.” - (Kashurba, 2002, pp. 158-159) [cooperativeresearch.org]

Paula Long“I never saw that smoke,” Paula Long, an eyewitness, told AFP. Long ran “immediately” after hearing the crash but did not see the cloud of smoke caught in the now-famous photograph by Valencia McClatchey, she said." - americanfreepress.net (09/17/04)

John F. Marshall (State Police Trooper, a state police fire marshal and criminal investigator,
"I found a lot of parts...The biggest part I found was one of the plane's engines. It was about 600 yards from the crash site itself. I think they took it out with a winch on a bulldozer.".... said he found many parts that he couldn't specifically identify.

Anita McBride ..looked out her kitchen window in Lambertsville and watched in horror as United Airlines Flight 93 disappeared over a line of trees.

Susan Mcelwain 51, - the white plane rocketed directly over her head.
"It came right over me, I reckon just 40 or 50ft above my mini-van," she recalled. "It was so low I ducked instinctively. It was travelling real fast, but hardly made any sound. "Then it disappeared behind some trees. A few seconds later I heard this great explosion and saw this fireball rise up over the trees, so I figured the jet had crashed. The ground really shook. So I dialled 911 and told them what happened.

I didn't think much more about it until the authorities started to say there had been no other plane. The plane I saw was heading right to the point where Flight 93 crashed and must have been there at the very moment it came down.

"There's no way I imagined this plane - it was so low it was virtually on top of me. It was white with no markings but it was definitely military, it just had that look.
"It had two rear engines, a big fin on the back like a spoiler on the back of a car and with two upright fins at the side. I haven't found one like it on the internet. It definitely wasn't one of those executive jets. The FBI came and talked to me and said there was no plane around.
"Then they changed their story and tried to say it was a plane taking pictures of the crash 3,000ft up.
"But I saw it and it was there before the crash and it was 40ft above my head. They did not want my story - nobody here did."

Mrs Mcelwain, who looks after special needs children, is further convinced the whole truth has yet to come out because of a phone call she had within hours from the wife of an air force friend of the family.
"She said her husband had called her that morning and said 'I can't talk, but we've just shot a plane down,' " Susan said. "I presumed they meant Flight 93. I have no doubt those brave people on board tried to do something, but I don't believe what happened on the plane brought it down.
"If they shot it down, or something else happened, everyone, especially the victims' families, have a right to know." - mirror.co.uk (9/13/02)

Lucy Menear "Shortly before it went down, another call was made to the Westmoreland County 911 center from a Mount Pleasant Township resident who said he could see a large plane flying low and banking from side to side.
The impact "sounded like dynamite," said Lucy Menear, 83, who lives less than a half-mile from the crash site. "It seems as though everything was falling apart." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

Michael Merringer "was out on a mountain bike ride with his wife, Amy, about two miles away from the crash site.
"I heard the engine gun two different times and then I heard a loud bang and the windows of the houses all around rattled,'' Merringer said. "I looked up and I saw the smoke coming up.''
The couple rushed home and drove near the scene.
"Everything was on fire and there was trees knocked down and there was a big hole in the ground,'' he said. " - Times-Tribune (09/11/01)

Purbaugh, Stahl and the Merringers were at the site before state police crews and the Federal Bureau of investigation (FBI) arrived to secure the entire site as a crime scene immediately or be arrested." - Daily American (09/12/01) [transcribed]

Don Miller "Ten miles away, at a warehouse near Berlin, employee Don Miller and co-workers felt their building shake." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

Wallace Miller (Somerset County Coroner)
"Most of it was little more than thumbnail size -- "no bigger than a pop rivet holding two pieces of aluminum," Miller said yesterday -- that last week's rains washed from trees bordering the stretch of strip mine where the airliner crashed nose-first Sept. 11." - postgazette.com (10/03/01)
"It was as if the plane had stopped and let the passengers off before it crashed," Miller said." - Pittsburg Post Gazette (10/15/01)

"Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 ... He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says, "like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says, "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there. It became like a giant funeral service."

Immediately after the crash, the seeming absence of human remains led the mind of coroner Wally Miller to a surreal fantasy: that Flight 93 had somehow stopped in mid-flight and discharged all of its passengers before crashing. "There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling." It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part.

Miller says he is often asked how he copes emotionally with the work he must do. He says he is not sure. Then he tells the church audience that, remarkably, two heavily damaged Bibles were found in the wreckage of the flight; a white one at the crash site that belonged to a passenger who was a practicing Buddhist; and a second one, black, of uncertain ownership. Miller says he ran across the second one on the floor of the warehouse where victims' belongings were being kept. The second Bible was scrunched up and was lying open, he says, to the 121st Psalm, which is customarily read at funerals. He says he has no idea who left the Bible in that position." - Washington Post (05/12/02)

"Miller recalled his arrival at the crash site about 20 minutes after the plane plummeted to the earth and described how the aircraft came down at a 45-degree angle. He explained how the cockpit broke off at impact, bouncing into a wooded area of about 60 acres. The resulting fireball scorched about eight acres of trees, he said.
"When we got out there, we knew there weren't going to be any survivors. Debris was strewn about everywhere, with nothing bigger than a large coffee can," Miller said." - pittsburghlive.com (05/30/02)

"WALLY MILLER"It just looked like somebody just dropped a bunch of metal out of the sky," Miller said." - Houston Chronicle (09/08/02)

"Wallace Miller, the lanky, Civil War-studying county coroner, did see it. He sat at the family funeral home, his father, Wilbur, with him. They watched the second plane sweep in low, from nowhere. They winced when it hit.
He couldn't believe the scene. He saw the burnt trees, and some debris smoking in the dirt. He saw half a window frame. He saw shreds of that white cloth they put over the headrests.
He saw things in the trees.
"This is the most eerie thing," he says. "I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."
"An extraordinary thing happened on that airplane," says Miller, who spent five months and $500,000 and found less than a tenth of the victims' remains." - Pittsburgh Live (09/11/02)

"But the few pieces of surviving fuselage, local coroner Wallace Miller told us, were "no bigger than a carrier bag". - Daily Mirror (09/13/02)
"A coroner has completed his investigation of the United Flight 93 crash site, saying less than 10 percent of the human remains were recovered from the site and he considers the land a cemetery.
Since the plane crashed on Sept. 11, 2001, Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller has presided over the site near Shanksville, about 60 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. He has lead searches to recover remains of the 40 passengers and crew and the four hijackers, their personal effects, parts of the airplane and other evidence.
Miller, who said a final search in July turned up "two or three handfuls of aircraft debris" but no remains, announced Tuesday that he was officially ending his investigation." - 9news.com (08/27/03)

"County Coroner Wallace Miller remembers hearing melting plastic drip from the trees, and days and weeks later, comforting the families of doomed Flight 93.
When he got to the scene, about 65 miles southeast of Pittsburgh, there was little evidence that what crashed had been a plane.
"I can just remember seeing very small bits of debris everywhere. There really wasn't any large sections of debris or aircraft," he says." - phillyburbs.com(09/10/05)

Frank Monaco (State Police Cmdr.)
"The biggest pieces were no larger than a phone book," said Pennsylvania State Police Cmdr. Frank Monaco." - cleveland.com (09/12/01)

Barb Muro "Barb Muro of Lambertsville said she was attending because of the impact the crash had on her life -- literally.
Muro lives only minutes away from the crash site, which today is just a mound of dirt with small American flags on it.
"It shook my house," she said. "It was such a strange noise."
Muro said she arrived at the scene about 10 minutes after the crash and was one of the first people on the scene." -

Bob Page "At least two witnesses in Shanksville said they saw a large plane circling the crash site following the explosion. About two or three minutes after the explosion, the airplane climbed into the sky almost vertically, the witnesses said.
“It sure wasn’t no puddle jumper,” said Bob Page, general sales manager at Shanksville Dodge.
Page said he could not see if there were any markings on the plane or what kind it was. State and federal officials could not confirm reports of a possible second plane in the area.

Eric Peterson 28, an off-duty corrections officer, "It was low enough, I thought you could probably count the rivets," Peterson said. "You could see more of the roof of the plane than you could the belly. It was on its side."
"There was a great explosion and you could see the flames. It was a massive, massive explosion. Flames and then smoke and then a massive, massive mushroom cloud."...found only burning jet parts, pieces of clothing, and seat cushions." - cleveland.com (09/12/01)

The plane continued on beyond a nearby hill, then dropped out of sight behind a tree line. As it did so, Peterson said it seemed to be turning end-over-end.
Then Peterson said he saw a fireball, heard an explosion and saw a mushroom cloud of smoke rise into the sky.
Peterson rushed to the scene on an all-terrain vehicle and when he arrived he saw bits and pieces of an airliner spread over a large area of an abandoned strip-mine in Stonycreek Township.
"There was a crater in the ground that was really burning," Peterson said. Strewn about were pieces of clothing hanging from trees and parts of the Boeing 757, but nothing bigger than a couple of feet long, he said. Many of the items were burning.
Peterson said he saw no bodies, but there also was no sign of life." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

“It was burning when it hit the ground,” Peterson said. “When it went down, it was in one piece. It was flying low, real low.
“We couldn’t see past the tree line, but we knew it crashed. I didn’t think it was going to clear these places. It looked like it tumbled.” - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Jeff Phillips "He radioed back to his office, telling coworkers Homer Barron, 49, and Jeff Phillips, 30, what he had seen.
"There was one part of a seat burning up there," Phillips said. "That was something you could recognize." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

Paula Pluta “I looked out the window and saw the plane nose-dive right into the ground,” she said, barefoot and shaken just 45 minutes after the crash.
The explosion buckled her garage doors and blasted open a latched window on her home, she said.
“It was just a streak of silver. Then a fireball shot up as high as the clouds. There was no way anybody could have survived. I called 911 right away.
“There was no way anything was left,” Pluta added. “There was just charred pieces of metal and a big hole. The plane didn’t slide into the crash. It went straight into the ground. Wings out. Nose down.” - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Lee Purbaughwho served three years in the US Navy .... second day on the job at Rollock Inc., a scrap metal company which owns the Diamond T mine, a former PBS Coals dig directly above the crash site, came with a shocking surprise. The crash happened within 200 yards of Purbaugh's view.
“I happened to hear this noise and looked up,” said Purbaugh, who indicated the plane was about 40 to 50 feet above him. “I didn’t know if I should duck or what because this plane was so low but then in a split second it hit.”

'' “just like a big mushroom cloud.” He says when it hit, it “shook the ground, rolled over in some way and then collapsed.” The crash site itself didn’t look like an airplane had crashed. From a distance, it seemed like a crater in the ground with smoke coming from it.

he didn’t notice any carnage, just some mail around. He also noticed a bookbag. He said the pine trees right next to the site were on fire from the explosion and the fire was also spreading through the woods.

“There was scattered debris everywhere, some in large chunks, but nothing you could identify. I’m just shocked it happened here.”
Purbaugh, Stahl and the Merringers were at the site before state police crews and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) arrived."

"...he saw the white jet..... working at the Rollock Inc. scrapyard on a ridge overlooking the point of impact, less than half a mile away.

But did he see another plane? "Yes, there was another plane," Lee said. "I didn't get a good look but it was white and it circled the area about twice and then it flew off over the horizon." - mirror.co.uk (9/13/02)
..."
Brad Reiman “The tail was a short distance from the rest of the wreckage,” said would-be rescuer Brad Reiman, 19, who lives near Berlin in Somerset County. “It looked like the plane hit once and flopped down into the woods.”
The largest piece of wreckage he could identify looked like a section of the plane’s tail, he said." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Betty Rhoads The windows of her home were latched shut, but the explosion blasted them open. When the elderly couple looked outside, they saw smoke billowing from the abandoned strip mine behind their house where United Airlines Flight 93 had crashed, carving a crater in the earth." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Viola Saylor of Lambertsville was outside talking to her sister.
"We didn't hear that plane coming until it was right on top of us," she said. "Then there was a roar."
She said the plane appeared to be gliding into the ground.
"All at once it just stopped. There was no engine noise, nothing. Someone hollered, Oh my God!' and then there was a real loud thud." -

Linda Shepley "But an eyewitness, Linda Shepley, said she had an unobstructed view of Flight 93's final two minutes and has reached the opposite conclusion. She recalls seeing the plane wobbling right and left, at a low altitude of roughly 2,500 feet, when suddenly the right wing abruptly dipped straight down, and the Boeing 757 plunged into the earth.
"It's not true," said Shepley of the persistent rumors. "If it had been shot down, there would have been pieces flying, but it was intact - there was nothing wrong with it." - Philadelphia Daily News (11/18/01)

Thomas Spallone(State Trooper) "Bits of metal were thrown against a tree line like shrapnel, said state police spokesman Trooper Thomas Spallone of Troop A in Greensburg.
“Once it hit, everything just disintegrated,” he said. “There are just shreds of metal. The longest piece I saw was 2 feet long.”
“We’re finding more debris in various locations,” Spallone said." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Tom Spinelli"..28, was working at India Lake Marina, a mile and a half away. "I saw the white plane," he said.
"It was flying around all over the place like it was looking for something. I saw it before and after the crash."
"It was mainly mail, bits of in-flight magazine and scraps of seat cloth," Tom said. "The authorities say it was blown here by the wind." But there was only a 10mph breeze and you were a mile and a half away? Tom raised his eyebrows, rolled his eyes and said: "Yeah, that's what they reckon." - mirror.co.uk (9/13/02)

"At least four witnesses who were at the crash scene within five minutes of the crash told WTAE's Paul Van Osdol that they saw another plane in the area.
Somerset County resident Jim Brandt said that he saw another plane in the area. He said it stayed there for one or two minutes before leaving.
Another Somerset County resident, Tom Spinello, said that he saw the plane. He said that it had high back wings.
Both men said that the plane had no markings on it, either civilian or military. The FBI said that it does not think that it was a military plane, but it would not rule out the possibility of it being a civilian plane. " - thepittsburghchannel.com (9/12/01)

Mark Stahl "There's a crater gouged in the earth, the plane is pretty much disintegrated. There's nothing left but scorched trees," said Mark Stahl, of Somerset, who went to the scene." - CNN (09/11/01)

Purbaugh, Stahl and the Merringers were at the site before state police crews and the Federal Bureau of investigation (FBI) arrived to secure the entire site as a crime scene immediately or be arrested."
About 30 firemen were at the scene when he arrived, Stahl said. He didn’t realize a passenger jet had crashed until a firefighter told him.
“It’s unbelievable,” he said." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Jim Stop ".. was fishing at the Indian Lake marina, about three miles from the crash site, when he looked up and saw the plane overhead.
“I heard the engine whine and scream,” Stop said.
He then heard an explosion and saw a fireball." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Ernie Stull(mayor of Shanksville ,a 77-year-old World War II veteran and retired Dodge dealer)".... recalls......
[question] "They had been sent here because of a crash but there was no plane?"
Ernie Stull: No. Nothing . Only this hole.

[question] I thought it was a crash site…
Ernie Stull: And it is. But there was nothing there to see. The plane had completely disintegrated. Puff. It hit the ground and flew to pieces–completely."

Question: At the very first, what did you think it could be?
Ernie Stull: Well...that a plane had crashed. But when we got here, there wasn’t anything.

Question: What do you mean--there wasn’t anything?
Ernie Stull: Well...there was no plane. There was what you see a hole. and that is the dirt that the airliner threw out--and the hole, about 6 meters deep...and that was all there was." - 9/11 File Unsolved [Reprint]

"I know of two people - I will not mention names - that heard a missile," Stuhl said. "They both live very close, within a couple of hundred yards. . .This one fellow's served in Vietnam and he says he's heard them, and he heard one that day." The mayor adds that based on what he knows about that morning, military F-16 fighter jets were "very, very close."" - Philadelphia Daily News (11/18/01)

"One question, “is what happened to the physical wreckage of the plane?”
“There was no plane,” Ernie Stull, mayor of Shanksville, told German television in March 2003:
“My sister and a good friend of mine were the first ones there,” Stull said. “They were standing on a street corner in Shanksville talking. Their car was nearby, so they were the first here—and the fire department came. Everyone was puzzled, because the call had been that a plane had crashed. But there was no plane.”
“They had been sent here because of a crash, but there was no plane?” the reporter asked.
“No. Nothing. Only this hole.”

(When AFP asked Stull about his comments, he disagreed about when he had gone to the crash site. “A day or two later,” Stull said, was about when he went to the site. But he reiterated the fact that they saw little evidence of a plane crash." - americanfreepress.net (09/17/04))

Charles Sturtz 53, who lives just over the hillside from the crash site, said a fireball 200 feet high shot up over the hill. He got to the crash scene even before the firefighters.
"The biggest pieces you could find were probably four feet [long]. Most of the pieces you could put into a shopping bag, and there were clothes hanging from the trees." - post-gazette.com (09/12/01)

Lyle Szupinka (State Police Maj.)"....said searchers found one of the large engines from the aircraft “at a considerable distance from the crash site.”
“It appears to be the whole engine,” he added.
Szupinka said most of the remaining debris, scattered over a perimeter that stretches for several miles, are in pieces no bigger than a “briefcase.”
“If you were to go down there, you wouldn’t know that was a plane crash,” he continued. “You would look around and say, ‘I wonder what happened here?’ The first impression looking around you wouldn’t say, ‘Oh, looks like a plane crash. The debris is very, very small.
“The best I can describe it is if you’ve ever been to a commercial landfill. When it’s covered and you have papers flying around. You have papers blowing around and bits and pieces of shredded metal. That’s probably about the best way to describe that scene itself.” - Pittsburgh Live (09/14/01)

Laura Temyer "who lives several miles north of the crash site in Hooversville, ... heard an airplane pass overhead.
"I heard like a boom and the engine sounded funny," she told the Daily News. "I heard two more booms - and then I did not hear anything."
What does Temyer think she heard? "I think the plane was shot down," insists Temyer, who said she has twice told her story to the FBI. What's more, she insists that people she knows in state law enforcement have told her the same thing, that the plane was shot down and that decompression sucked objects from the aircraft, explaining why there was a wide debris field." - Philadelphia Daily News (11/18/01)

Tim Thornsberg "It came in low over the trees and started wobbling," said Tim Thornsberg, a resident of Somerset County, who was working near an old strip mine when he saw the plane.
"Then it just rolled over and was flying upside down for a few seconds ... and then it kind of stalled and did a nose dive over the trees. It was just unreal to see something like that." - Pittsburgh 11 News (09/13/01)

Rosemary Tipton " principal of Shanksville-Stonycreek Elementary School, was in her office when the building shook. From her window, she could see smoke rising from the ridge." - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

Nick Tweardy “You couldn’t see nothing,” said Nick Tweardy, 20, of Stonycreek Township. “We couldn’t tell what we were looking at. There’s just a huge crater in the woods.” - pittsburghlive.com (09/12/01)

John Walsh 72 "It was like an atomic bomb hit," said John Walsh, 72, who heard the crash and drove to the site while still in his bathrobe. "When I got there, the plane was obliterated. You couldn't see the cockpit or the wings or nothing." - wtae.com (09/12/01)

Joe Wilt 63, said he heard a whistling like a missile, then a loud boom as he stood in the doorway of his Shanksville home across the road from the site. His view was blocked by a group of trees, but he said he saw a fireball rise 800 feet into the air, then give way to black smoke.
''It exploded and you could see flames and debris everywhere, right over that tree over there,'' Wilt said, pointing.

Bill Wright "A pilot of a single-engine Piper might have been the last person to see United Flight 93 before it crashed.
Local pilot Bill Wright.... thinks that he witnessed a struggle for control of the plane.
Wright was flying over Youngwood, Westmoreland Countyl....Then, an air-traffic controller asked him and his passenger to look out the window.

Wright was flying a Piper Arrow when he spotted a jet crossing behind him -- about three miles away. It was close enough for him and his photographer to see the United Airlines colors.... air traffic controllers asked him to give them Flight 93's altitude.

"(It) went behind us. (We) lost sight for a while and when it came back (the passenger) said, 'It's turning toward us. Now it's turning away. Now turning back toward us.' So it was rocking its wings.
"It would bank hard left, bank hard right and then back to hard left. We saw it bank three or four times before we got away from it."
.
Within moments controllers ordered Wright to land immediately.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

can any witness be able to identify a flying object going at 400mph ? let alone see people inside ? I highly doubt it. If they claimed it was a spaceship, would you believe them ? of course not, and yet you believe them in this case without an ounce of evidence or videos it was a plane.

I cannot comment on all the arguments presented here because I only jumped to this last page, I can however comment on Butties assertion above; my son and I were standing on a mountaintop in Scotland (he was having a piss) when we heard what sounded like a fooken runaway train approaching at high speed, suddenly in front of us was an American fighter jet seemingly going by in slow motion with the pilot looking straight at us and smiling then it was gone in a roar up the canyon. I heard later they use the mountain canyons for training. Anyway that is my contribution to the thread as for the government conspiracy theory I think anybody who believes that shite should be locked up.

You're going around in circles....again. They found body parts embedded in the building, plus jet engines and other parts. Photos and testimony have been posted. Air authorities in the US are quite satisfied that it was the plane, plus those passengers. Rigorous DNA testing has been performed.
But you are too stupid to understand the physics of planes hitting armoured buildings and going head-on into fields (rather than at an angle and breaking up).

Originally Posted by ENT

All that nice clean aluminium on the Pentagon lawn was planted there.

Ahahahaha

Did they come in the previous night and create holes from which it would all pop up on springs, at exactly the right moment ?

Originally Posted by Latindancer

You're going around in circles....again. They found body parts embedded in the building, plus jet engines and other parts. Photos and testimony have been posted. Air authorities in the US are quite satisfied that it was the plane, plus those passengers. Rigorous DNA testing has been performed.
But you are too stupid to understand the physics of planes hitting armoured buildings and going head-on into fields (rather than at an angle and breaking up).

Originally Posted by ENT

All that nice clean aluminium on the Pentagon lawn was planted there.

Ahahahaha

Did they come in the previous night and create holes from which it would all pop up on springs, at exactly the right moment ?

Clean aluminium debris was scattered on the lawn that morning as part of the ongoing NORAD "emergency drill" being acted out at the Pentagon, in Washington, WTC NY and Ohio at the time, notice that none of those Pentagon employees got their nice clean white shirts and hands dirty picking up and carrying away all that stage-prop junk, eh.

Body parts embedded in the building? Total rubbish, body parts don't "embed" into buildings, idiot.

They found jet engines? WRONG AGAIN!

There was only one found, and it was too small to come off AA 77!!!

What air authorities in the USA are you on about, dopey?
One aior authority is satisfied that AA 77 never went near the Pentagon, the US Bureau of Transport Statistics have got AA 77 down as not scheduled to fly nor given a departure time for that day. Which other air authority do you have in mind?

Now go back to your pre-digested, spoon-fed pap that you so avidly suck from "Popular Mechanics".....about the closest you'll ever get to further education, drongo.

Oh, you did do some high school physics didn't you?
Then you should know better than to

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by Latindancer

You're going around in circles....again. They found body parts embedded in the building, plus jet engines and other parts. Photos and testimony have been posted. Air authorities in the US are quite satisfied that it was the plane, plus those passengers. Rigorous DNA testing has been performed.
But you are too stupid to understand the physics of planes hitting armoured buildings and going head-on into fields (rather than at an angle and breaking up).

Originally Posted by ENT

All that nice clean aluminium on the Pentagon lawn was planted there.

Ahahahaha

Did they come in the previous night and create holes from which it would all pop up on springs, at exactly the right moment ?

Clean aluminium debris was scattered on the lawn that morning as part of the ongoing NORAD "emergency drill" being acted out at the Pentagon, in Washington, WTC NY and Ohio at the time, notice that none of those Pentagon employees got their nice clean white shirts and hands dirty picking up and carrying away all that stage-prop junk, eh.

Body parts embedded in the building? Total rubbish, body parts don't "embed" into buildings, idiot.

They found jet engines? WRONG AGAIN!

There was only one found, and it was too small to come off AA 77!!!

What air authorities in the USA are you on about, dopey?
One aior authority is satisfied that AA 77 never went near the Pentagon, the US Bureau of Transport Statistics have got AA 77 down as not scheduled to fly nor given a departure time for that day. Which other air authority do you have in mind?

Now go back to your pre-digested, spoon-fed pap that you so avidly suck from "Popular Mechanics".....about the closest you'll ever get to further education, drongo.

Oh, you did do some high school physics didn't you?
Then you should know better than to

All unattributed nonsense or the ramblings of the insane.

And all posted before.

Is this thread just destined to keep getting bumped so the Grange Hill Mob can keep squealing the same old looney tunes nonsense?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And all posted before.

So what?

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Yet there are nut jobs out there like Shaggy, ENT, etc. who, based on laughable conspiracy websites, still want to believe that AA77 never hit the Pentagon.

You suck your pre-digested pap from your favourite news channel and can't for love or money figure out how anything works other than a bike.

Then you try to say that Palisades got it all wrong when, after being asked by the Army at Pentagon to pinpoint the time of the explosion, which they did and found that there was none, only an electrical disturbance at the (Pentagon indicated) time, that AA is lying when they said that AA 77 wasn't scheduled to fly that day, that US Bureau of Transport Statistics is lying too when their records show that AA 77 didn't even have a tail number allocated, nor a departure time for that day. D'ya reckon Rumsfeld when he said a missile hit the Pentagon, that the plane over Ohio was shot down? And of course, Bush was lying too when he said the plane vapourized, eh?

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Sorry about that, Pseudolus. No offense meant. I get a bit touchy in this thread due to the trolling or simply ignorant retards sometimes dropping in here.

That's quite all right. I actually think a plane did hit the pentagon - passenger plane or not, we will actually never know. However, I also believe that the US powers that be were 100% complicit in it. They have form, they have the motive, he have the ability, they have the set up to ensure no leaks, they have the media / press to pump their version, they have the complete lack of morality, and they follow it up with a slap dash cover up that is only held into place by ridiculing those that dare to ask questions. With the Pentagon incident, a couple of points that shout cover up to me. As soon as it hits, all families have an army attaché assigned to them "guiding" them to toe the line. Complete faith in military autopsies for a start, misidentification of bodies / parts of bodies; lack of real information and discouragement when relatives tried to ask; a complete lock down with the poor relatives shunted into the military system and this is not right.

Anyway, I'll let you get back to defending the official line. Life's a lot simpler and you face less ridicule if you are prepared to swallow hook line and sinker everything the governments around the world tell to the press, who then tell you.

Albert....are you and ENT actually saying anything ? Or just spamming this thread ?

Those men in black are investigators. Do you think that they are somehow slipping pieces of plane out of their equipment bags using sleight of hand ? While the photographers are there, and have been for some time ?

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Albert....are you and ENT actually saying anything ? Or just spamming this thread ?

Those men in black are investigators. Do you think that they are somehow slipping pieces of plane out of their equipment bags using sleight of hand ? While the photographers are there, and have been for some time ?

Like hell they're investigators.

Notice their unsoiled white shirts and clean hands as handle that "hot", filthy, aluminium debris that exploded off an airliner a few minutes before........perfectly clean.

So they're not picking up charred airliner debris.

Contrast that to all the charred, smoke-damaged debris found at any other airliner crash site.

Those pieces don't look too clean to me. Besides which, they got shucked off as the plane went into the building at hundreds of miles an hour. No chance to get smoke-damaged....the fire came later.

And as I said already....by that time there were people everywhere gawping. Do you really think that they PUT the plane pieces there with everyone around ? Moron. You have no analytical ability or sense of proportion whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Do you really think that they PUT the plane pieces there with everyone around ?

Oh look... straight after the crash - no debris on the lawn whatsoever



Then these guys turn up





And then - suddenly...as if by magic....there's shiny (unfolded) bits of evidence that make their story



Pull the other one LD - it's got bells on it

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Bullshit, ENT. You've got those photos in the wrong order.....probably purposely.
Look at the first one and see the foam all over the ground. They're obviously been there some time. And they're not even hosing any more....one guy is hauling the hose along. The debris has been picked up so the firefighters don't trip over it all.

Now look at the last one....they've just arrived and are hosing some distance from the building, probably as it's hot.

In the middle photo....there is LARGE debris in the background. Came out of bags, with everyone standing around gawping ?

You're losing your marbles LD,....it was Albert that posted those shots.


"The debris has been picked up so the firefighters don't trip over it all."

".. as it's hot....." Surprise!!!

But not hot enough to burn the wood lying around, or the trees, or the grass,...., or even books and computers and chairs and all sorts at the fire seat inside the Pentagon.

All the debris is to the left of the fire/destruction, NONE around the building at the alleged crash impact point, All of it in the wrong place, arrived the wrong time, too.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Jeff Maynor is one of the many people who were involved in the cleanup on the day after 9/11. He sent this email after reading my initial version of “What Hit the Pentagon? Misinformation and its Effects on the Credibility of 9/11 Truth”.
_________________________________________
Hi, I read your paper. I think the only thing I disagree with is the planted plane parts theory, mostly because I was there pulling out plane parts and finding bodies. I was in the army at the time, part of the 3rd US INF (The old guard). So I lived at Fort Myers on the other side of Arlington cemetery from the Pentagon. My window shook from the impact. A day later when they got the fire under control more, they called us in to do a search and rescue. I remember making paths though all the wreckage – twisted metal everywhere. We were more just looking for bodies because there were no survivors at that point. It was very dark and thoughts of it not being a plane never crossed my mind. I remember the floor boards very well – picking up these floor boards that looked like the center path of the plane walkway. I also remember carrying an engine out, or a huge piece of metal that was taller than me, that took about 8 very strong guys to carry to the breezeway between the columns. I also remember that hole between the columns and also that it struck me as wow it punched through, but I think it might have just been the firefighters that put it there.
Anyways I guess I’m kind of rambling on. But there are questions that people never seem to ask when saying that something other than the 757 hit. Firstly, if the 757 didn’t hit it, where is that plane now and where are the people that were on it? Secondly, it is ridiculous to think that for such an elaborate plan they would use a missile or explosive in plain daylight and with god knows how many witnesses that might have cameras. That just seems like a risk our government would not take. I can say with certainty that nothing exploded. The roof collapsed and I was in office rooms that were cut in two on the top floor – some of the windows didn’t even break. In fact I was in a room that was full of computers and it wasn’t touched right next to where the plane hit. All I can say is that if anyone was in that room they were the most lucky people there.

Are you claiming to be Frank Legge (BSc, PhD)
[email protected]

or to have written the above titled paper?

Originally Posted by ENT

Are you claiming to be Frank Legge (BSc, PhD)
[email protected]

or to have written the above titled paper?

You are not seriously accusing someone of taking someone else's work and passing it off as their own?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by ENT

Are you claiming to be Frank Legge (BSc, PhD)
[email protected]

or to have written the above titled paper?

You are not seriously accusing someone of taking someone else's work and passing it off as their own?

LD claimed that he wrote the paper published under the title;

“What Hit the Pentagon? Misinformation and its Effects on the Credibility of 9/11 Truth”.

Author;
Frank Legge (BSc, PhD)
[email][email protected]

Who gives a shit who posted those photos ? That is trivial. You are both arguing the same stupid points.

Regarding the major points....your brain is scrambled, ENT.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Jeff Maynor is one of the many people who were involved in the cleanup on the day after 9/11. He sent this email after reading my initial version of “What Hit the Pentagon? Misinformation and its Effects on the Credibility of 9/11 Truth”.

Hi, I read your paper. I think the only thing I disagree with is the planted plane parts theory, mostly because I was there pulling out plane parts and finding bodies. I was in the army at the time, part of the 3rd US INF (The old guard). So I lived at Fort Myers on the other side of Arlington cemetery from the Pentagon. My window shook from the impact. A day later when they got the fire under control more, they called us in to do a search and rescue. I remember making paths though all the wreckage – twisted metal everywhere. We were more just looking for bodies because there were no survivors at that point. It was very dark and thoughts of it not being a plane never crossed my mind. I remember the floor boards very well – picking up these floor boards that looked like the center path of the plane walkway. I also remember carrying an engine out, or a huge piece of metal that was taller than me, that took about 8 very strong guys to carry to the breezeway between the columns. I also remember that hole between the columns and also that it struck me as wow it punched through, but I think it might have just been the firefighters that put it there. Anyways I guess I’m kind of rambling on. But there are questions that people never seem to ask when saying that something other than the 757 hit. Firstly, if the 757 didn’t hit it, where is that plane now and where are the people that were on it? Secondly, it is ridiculous to think that for such an elaborate plan they would use a missile or explosive in plain daylight and with god knows how many witnesses that might have cameras. That just seems like a risk our government would not take. I can say with certainty that nothing exploded. The roof collapsed and I was in office rooms that were cut in two on the top floor – some of the windows didn’t even break. In fact I was in a room that was full of computers and it wasn’t touched right next to where the plane hit. All I can say is that if anyone was in that room they were the most lucky people there.

You're a joker LD - you rubbish AE911 (more than 2000 architects and engineers) and pull some irrelevant shit from an obscure website

You nugget.

The first reply to the shitty blog you pulled it from was this

4 Responses to Debris witnesses

Mark Snyder says:
January 28, 2012 at 10:16 am
Mr Maynor’s email, being presented here as “debris witness” testimony, by virtue of his not being on the location on Sept. 11, 2001, but rather on the following day, leaves an awful lot to speculation as to what could have occurred from the time of the explosion at the Pentagon and the time when this witness was actually on the scene. To say he saw plane parts on the following day does not verify in any way the presence of those parts on the day before. Whether the parts were planted or not, Mr Maynor would not have been there to see it. Mr Maynor’s question regarding the release of the many videos confiscated from around the Pentagon immediately following the alleged plane impact is extremely valid and needs to be answered.


So the guy you're quoting wasn't even there on 9/11

^^^ So why did you lie about writing a paper?

Shaggy, ENT and the other conspiracy nuts think all the eye witness accounts are fake? Well boys, do you have any evidence to support your allegation?

Here are a few more eye witness accounts for you:

David Battle:
Earlier Tuesday, Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."
Gary Bauer:
I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn’t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment.
Maurice Bease:
Sergeant Maurice L. Bease had worked around Marine aviation long enough to know what a fly-by was, and it sounded like one as he stood outside his office near the Pentagon on Sept. 11. Turning around expecting to see a fighter jet fly over, he saw only a split-second glimpse of a white commercial airliner streaking low toward the building, and him! He did not even have time to duck before it plowed into the side of the Pentagon around the corner and about 200 yards from where he stood. Immediately, a ball of flame shot up the side of the building, followed by smoke, lots of it.


C'mon boys, prove 'em wrong; there are plenty more witnesses to come.