women's inequality of pay

I watched the following very interesting IMO interview on Youtube on the above subject.
The interviewer used every disingenuous debating technique in the book, including presuppositions, strawman, etc, and I was impressed by the interviewee's ability to defeat then and at the same time keep his cool.
Not sure if I would have been able to do the same.
I will refrain from editorialising at this time as to not poison the well.
Let me know what you think.
Jordan Peterson vs The Gender Pay Gap - YouTube

I’m not into YouTube videos. I prefer reading well written research and opinions. There is a gender wage gap. Im interested to know what you think? I’m sure some dinosaurs & misogynists on TD will deny there is or claim it’s the woman’s choice to have babies and miss out on years in the workforce et al.

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Originally Posted by DrWilly

I’m not into YouTube videos. I prefer reading well written research and opinions. There is a gender wage gap. Im interested to know what you think? I’m sure some dinosaurs & misogynists on TD will deny there is or claim it’s the woman’s choice to have babies and miss out on years in the workforce et al.

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It is explained in the video much better than I ever could.
Watch it, I promise you that it would at the very least be interesting. I did, and aside from finding it interesting , not only because of the subject matter but by the techniques used to get a point across. I learned a few things that I had not considered before.
If you find something you don't agree with, time stamp it, I will look into it and tell you what I think. Perhaps you will also present me with something I have not considered.

By the way, I find washing a video more informative than reading an article, because communications involve much more than what was said, it involves the context of what was said with in all communication parameters' including verbal, visual, and audio. How something was said is as important as to what was said .

It is such a multi-faceted topic that opinions over-ride rational exchanges. Simply to say there is a pag gap is over-simplifying it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist . . . worse id saying there is no pay gap and that there fewer women plumbras and lion-tamers etc etc etc. . .

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Originally Posted by DrWilly

I’m sure some dinosaurs & misogynists on TD will deny there is or claim it’s the woman’s choice to have babies and miss out on years in the workforce et al.

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Yup, let's wait for them to wake up and start their day

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Originally Posted by panama hat

It is such a multi-faceted topic that opinions over-ride rational exchanges. Simply to say there is a pag gap is over-simplifying it but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist . . . worse id saying there is no pay gap and that there fewer women plumbras and lion-tamers etc etc etc. . .

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If I understood your point correctly, I think that's the point that Paterson was trying to make.
Is there a pay gap? Research shows that there is.
Is it unfair? That's where the rub lies .
Equal work for equal pay. How do you define "equal work" ?

^ A lot of larger companies base equal work on position and then pay for a position rather than the person. My experience has been that 20% do the work while 80% get paid for turning up. This was really evident during covid but was largely ignored.

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Originally Posted by Troy

^ A lot of larger companies base equal work on position and then pay for a position rather than the person. My experience has been that 20% do the work while 80% get paid for turning up. This was really evident during covid but was largely ignored.

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That is absolutely true!!
It is called Price's law (Derek Price,) and it is applicable in every production output..

"Price’s law says that 50% of the work is done by the square root of the total number of people who participate in the work. "
Price's Law: What It Is And Why You Should Care - Darius Foroux

Jordan Peterson. Very, very smart guy. Hugely controversial, particularly with his stance on trans issues. Always worth watching though.

^^ I think there are a couple of rules of thumb banded around as well as the pay scale worked out by budget you control and number of people you are responsible for.

I thought the latter one was killed off years ago but German companies still use it. It means engineers have to become managers to progress up the salary ladder. Makes for an inverse pyramid manpower structure, with multiple managers telling engineers what to do.

Anyway, I have stayed out of this system for the last 30 years or so. I name my price, within reason, and work like hell to justify it. I mention it because I know a female engineer, a very good one, who did the same. When they forced her to go permanent, she made the decision to become a mother.

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Originally Posted by Troy

^ A lot of larger companies base equal work on position and then pay for a position rather than the person. My experience has been that 20% do the work while 80% get paid for turning up. This was really evident during covid but was largely ignored.

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I think you're spot on with your first two sentences.

Meritocracy seems to have nosedived so far this century.

Could you expand on your third?

......

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

By the way, I find washing a video more informative than reading an article, because communications involve much more than what was said, it involves the context of what was said with in all communication parameters' including verbal, visual, and audio. How something was said is as important as to what was said .

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I find washing a video

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Oh the irony:smileylaughing:

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Originally Posted by panama hat

a pag gap

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Lack of Curry skills eh Hamana Pat?:smileylaughing:

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Originally Posted by panama hat

plumbras

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Indeed even Tom might notice plum picks

https://teakdoor.com/attachment.php?...d=100166&stc=1

I don't like posting using my phone . . . :sad:

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Originally Posted by cyrille

I think you're spot on with your first two sentences.

Meritocracy seems to have nosedived so far this century.

Could you expand on your third?

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During Covid coming to work was voluntary where I work and working from home was the norm. This despite the fact the product and computers are inaccessible from home. The same handful of people came to work most days. The rest stayed home due to covid. No-one bothered to check work progress from anyone. I found it interesting that many of those that stayed at home caught covid but the ones turning up at work didn't.

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Originally Posted by david44

Oh the irony

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I don't get it.! what has ironing has to do with it?

It's not black and white.

A simple example is how women campaigned (successfully) for equal pay at Wimbledon when they only play three set matches while the men play five.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

when they only play three set matches while the men play five.

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Do they play the same number of matches?

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Originally Posted by nidhogg

Jordan Peterson. Very, very smart guy. Hugely controversial, particularly with his stance on trans issues. Always worth watching though.

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He is certainly very smart, but after watching some more of his lectures /interviews , I think he is a bit of an a-hole and a tool.
I was interested in the video I posted because it did make some very good points on the subject, and exhibited excellent debating technique. (something I am interested in)
But it seems to me that the initial controversy concerning transgender itles and the legislation of speech propelled him to a notoriety that he is taking advantage of and is monetizing . His ability to be such an effective debater and being able to overcome objections stems from the fact that he has used these arguments so often that he has refined the to near perfect debating technique, where his opponents/ interviews, have a cursory use and knowledge of. In other words, this is all that he does, where his opponents do m any things , and this is one of them.
I have found him to use exactly the same stock answers in many interviews, and the same " I am a very agreeable person but.... "
inoculate himself from what is to follow , which is him being desagreable. Cheap debating shot IMO
It seems to me that he has found a niche market and he is farming it. He is IMO too smart to believe everything he says .

I hope what I tried to say above makes some sense. :)

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Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

"Price’s law says that 50% of the work is done by the square root of the total number of people who participate in the work. "

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Amazing, that Derek has visited Indonesia.