Suspected intruder stabbed to death in Bramhall burglary

If two intruders entered my house neither of them would walk away.
What happen to the right to defend you property.

A man has been arrested on suspicion of murder after the death of a suspected intruder at a Greater Manchester house.

Police found a man, aged in his 30s, with knife injuries after they were called to a house in Midland Road, Bramhall, at 19:50 BST on Saturday.

He was given first aid by paramedics and responding officers, but died a short time afterwards. A second man fled the scene.

A 39-year-old man believed to be the householder has been arrested.
BBC News - Suspected intruder stabbed to death in Bramhall burglary

klong toey, I'm taking a wild guess and saying your american, being able to protect your own home is a new idea in the UK, it started last year sometime, before that if you killed or injured a burglar you would be jailed, now they arrest and investigate to see if it was justified and in some cases let them off for protecting their own home.

Actually, you've always been able to protect your house using "reasonable" force, which is usually interpreted as not shooting an unarmed person.

But as most burglars are now armed, the law is being changed to make it less likely you will be charged with murder if an armed invader enters your property and you end up killing him - it is to be considered self defence.

No i am English born in Sussex,i thought the government said we could protect our property with reasonable force.

Off topic but as i type my house getting buzzed by Spitfires,Battle of Britain fly pass.
Cool love the sound of those engines.
Btw DD you know how to offend people,American.

Baseball bat to the body (using all your strength) to knock said fucker into convulsions while not deadly. best advice until the UK has a clear law that home invasion can be dealt with in any way.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

"reasonable" force, which is usually interpreted as not shooting an unarmed person.

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Like that 60 year old farmer who shot those 2 20 odd year old pikeys and was sent to prison, well Rambo, when your 60 and confronted in your house with 2 20 odd year old pikeys I am sure you will be able to restrain them with your bare hands.

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Originally Posted by dirtydog

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

"reasonable" force, which is usually interpreted as not shooting an unarmed person.

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Like that 60 year old farmer who shot those 2 20 odd year old pikeys and was sent to prison, well Rambo, when your 60 and confronted in your house with 2 20 odd year old pikeys I am sure you will be able to restrain them with your bare hands.

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DD, have you been on the piss again, you idiot?

I'm saying that the laws did not permit that, and the Tony Martin case was the perfect example.

But the attitude has changed under this government, and if you cast your beer-addled mind back a few months, they took a home owner into custody for killing a burglar and released him without charge.

The argument with Tony Martin was that killing them was excessive force.

To quote: "English law permits one person to kill another in self defence only if the person defending him or herself uses no more than "reasonable force"; it is the responsibility of the jury to determine whether or not an unreasonable amount of force was used".

Martin's jury were given the option of convicting him only of manslaughter, but they (stupidly in my book) found him guilty of murder. It was reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

I'm OK with people killing burglars - how do you know if they aren't drug crazed mental cases?

People should not be forced into such a decision. If someone invades your property, you should be able to take the fuckers down, end of.

Harry gets my vote.
Reservoir Of Dogs,tie them to a chair douse with petrol,slice dice and ignite.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

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Originally Posted by dirtydog

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

"reasonable" force, which is usually interpreted as not shooting an unarmed person.

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Like that 60 year old farmer who shot those 2 20 odd year old pikeys and was sent to prison, well Rambo, when your 60 and confronted in your house with 2 20 odd year old pikeys I am sure you will be able to restrain them with your bare hands.

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DD, have you been on the piss again, you idiot?

I'm saying that the laws did not permit that, and the Tony Martin case was the perfect example.

But the attitude has changed under this government, and if you cast your beer-addled mind back a few months, they took a home owner into custody for killing a burglar and released him without charge.

The argument with Tony Martin was that killing them was excessive force.

To quote: "English law permits one person to kill another in self defence only if the person defending him or herself uses no more than "reasonable force"; it is the responsibility of the jury to determine whether or not an unreasonable amount of force was used".

Martin's jury were given the option of convicting him only of manslaughter, but they (stupidly in my book) found him guilty of murder. It was reduced to manslaughter on appeal.

I'm OK with people killing burglars - how do you know if they aren't drug crazed mental cases?

People should not be forced into such a decision. If someone invades your property, you should be able to take the fuckers down, end of.

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i think that the law is typical british fairness, but is outdated.

its not the same - if it's the middle of the day, you can see someone is un-armed and you shoot them, - and waking up in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere in the pitch black and having who knows fuck (more than one) coming at you and shooting them. times have changed, people have changed and so laws need to be adjusted accordingly.

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Originally Posted by klong toey

Harry gets my vote.
Reservoir Of Dogs,tie them to a chair douse with petrol,slice dice and ignite.

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Duncan Ferguson twice caught home invaders. When the police had finished peeling them off the floor, in neither case did they press any charges.

there's been a couple of events like this recently, both of the home / business owners were arrested but neither charged.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

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Originally Posted by klong toey

Harry gets my vote.
Reservoir Of Dogs,tie them to a chair douse with petrol,slice dice and ignite.

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Duncan Ferguson twice caught home invaders. When the police had finished peeling them off the floor, in neither case did they press any charges.

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I suspect Duncan was merely attempting to restrain them and they very foolishly resisted :rolleyes:


Much depends on what story one wishes to tell the police when they arrive at the property or afterwards during an interview. Just make sure it tallies with the evidence left at the scene.

'Reasonable force' being the key :)

Bramhall is in Stockport which is Greater Manchesters most affluent borough. However, dotted throughout Stockport are the usual scumbag councill estates. Midland Road has council housing on one side and private housing on the other. While the welfare state in the UK rewards the dreggs to have ever more children and one generation passes its defective genes on to the next then this problem will for ever be on the increase. Glad the toe rag in this report is dead but there are thousands more were he came from. I hate this town (Stockport) and i hate this country.

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Originally Posted by dirtydog

klong toey, I'm taking a wild guess and saying your american, being able to protect your own home is a new idea in the UK, it started last year sometime, before that if you killed or injured a burglar you would be jailed, now they arrest and investigate to see if it was justified and in some cases let them off for protecting their own home.

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Protecting one's home was the idea of the British which was adopted by the US. So the idea isn't new at all. Unfortunately, the British people allowed the government to slowly take away their rights to protect over the last century.

It happened twice to Duncan Ferguson. lol. Twice people broke in and twice they woke him up and got launched. The first time it happened he broke his wrist and couldn't play for Everton for a month.

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Originally Posted by dirtydog

klong toey, I'm taking a wild guess and saying your american, being able to protect your own home is a new idea in the UK, it started last year sometime, before that if you killed or injured a burglar you would be jailed, now they arrest and investigate to see if it was justified and in some cases let them off for protecting their own home.

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Sorry DD but our legal system came from yours sometime around 1776, and at common law, defense of self and property was valid. Britain drifted off into liberal insanity sometime in the 20th Century, and I certainly hope they reconsider their foolishness.

It's beyond me how any judge could sentence or prosecutor could prosecute someone like this and live with their conscience.

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Originally Posted by BobR

It's beyond me how any judge could sentence or prosecutor could prosecute someone like this and live with their conscience.

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Yep, we can only hope they find themselves in a similar situation.

Would it help if you put stickers on your windows and doors that said any thieves would leave in a body bag? Would that be considered a disclaimer in the courts? Suppose you would have to do it in multiple languages though. :)

It would be comical if one of the newspapers there would run an article on how to dispose of a body and eliminate forensic evidence. The British Government has created a situation where even law abiding citizens might need to know how. If nothing else, any major publication having the balls to publish an article like that would graphically call attention to the idiocy of the law.

Come on Murdoch, redeem yourself.

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It's beyond me how any judge could sentence or prosecutor could prosecute someone like this and live with their conscience.

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the judges interpret the laws as they stand, and advise juries as to whether the law has been broken or not.

it is up to those who make the laws to change them if they are not fit for purpose.

its the wide open definition of "reasonable force" that causes the problem, that and the fact that juries these days have too many liberal thinkers or sympathetic ignoramus lowlives on them.

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Originally Posted by Albert Shagnasty

i think that the law is typical british fairness, but is outdated.

its not the same - if it's the middle of the day, you can see someone is un-armed and you shoot them, - and waking up in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere in the pitch black and having who knows fuck (more than one) coming at you and shooting them. times have changed, people have changed and so laws need to be adjusted accordingly.

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Tend to agree with all that you say.

However the pikey who was killed was shot in the back while running away, not that I give a toss, as as far I'm concerned all "pikey burglars" should be shot on site whatever the time of day armed or unarmed!:)

This is from the Manchester Evening News

Video: Second man arrested after dad, 39, held following fatal stabbing at Bramhall home


https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif One of the intruders fled in a white Citroen van, registration MM02 XEY, which was parked on Chinley Close.



Police have arrested a second man after a fatal break-in at a Stockport home.

Householder Vincent Cooke was at home when two men entered his house in Bramhall, Stockport, on Saturday night.

One of the intruders, aged in his late 30s, suffered fatal stab wounds and was found bleeding to death on the doorstep of the house on Midland Road.

Police were searching for the second intruder, who fled the scene in a white Citroen van parked nearby.

But detectives now say they arrested a 33-year-old man on suspicion of aggravated burglary. A white van has also been recovered.




Dad arrested after stabbing in Bramhall - YouTube

Mr Cooke, a businessman and married dad-of-one, was arrested on suspicion of murder and is still being interviewed in custody.

It is believed that during the disturbance, shortly before 8pm, Mr Cooke 's wife Karen and 12-year-old son returned home but managed to flee unhurt.
Forensics teams gathered at the large detached house, which is in an affluent area of Bramhall, Stockport.


Outside the home was parked a gold Maserati sports car and a Range Rover - both with personalised reg plates.


James Hutton, 81, of nearby Midland Walk told of his shock

Local resident talks about Bramhall stabbing death - YouTube

He said: "I have been here 47 years and it's a smashing area. Quite honestly, I haven't seen a policeman for about three years. "This is a bad do. If it was me at home, and I'm defending my wife, I'd defend her with my body. It's the same as a soldier fighting for his country."


Nearby resident Dennis Fortune, 33, a father of three, said: "It's terrible. I would defend my home. I've got kids to look after, but I would defend my home all day long. The man must be going through hell."


A Midland Road resident, who did not want to be named, added: "I have lived here since 1968 and it's a quiet area. I've never been afraid of walking the streets here.
"You see a lot of young lads hanging around, but there's no real trouble. I don't know anyone who's been attacked or robbed or anything. I just can't believe it.
"
GMP's Major Incident Team is investigating and officers from Stockport are working in the area and with the community to provide reassurance.


Chief Superintendent Tim Forber, said: "Clearly this is a serious incident in which a man has lost his life and at this time we believe the dead man was one of two men who were attempting to carry out a burglary at the house.



“We have a team of detectives carrying out a thorough investigation and we will use all the resources available to us to establish the full facts of what has happened.
“As with all investigations help from members of the public is key and I would ask that anyone with information about those responsible for or involved in this burglary or who might have knowledge of the whereabouts of the van to contact us urgently.



“There are also extra patrols in the area should anyone wishes to talk to us or raise any concerns.”

This is the third incident of a suspected intruder dying as the result of stab wounds in Greater Manchester this year .


Homeowner Peter Flanagan was ruled to have acted in self-defence after he stabbed a burglar to death who broke into his house in Salford in June.
Shopkeeper, Cecil Foley, 72, was told he would not face any legal action after Gary Mullings, 30, suffered fatal stab wounds following a struggle at Shrewsbury Street store, Old Trafford, in July.

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Originally Posted by FarangRed

Police were searching for the second intruder, who fled the scene in a white Citroen van parked nearby.

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Mabe the survivor can use the choice of getaway vehicle in mitigation :)

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Originally Posted by The Bold Rodney

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Originally Posted by Albert Shagnasty

i think that the law is typical british fairness, but is outdated.

its not the same - if it's the middle of the day, you can see someone is un-armed and you shoot them, - and waking up in a farmhouse in the middle of nowhere in the pitch black and having who knows fuck (more than one) coming at you and shooting them. times have changed, people have changed and so laws need to be adjusted accordingly.

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Tend to agree with all that you say.

However the pikey who was killed was shot in the back while running away, not that I give a toss, as as far I'm concerned all "pikey burglars" should be shot on site whatever the time of day armed or unarmed!:)

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The American "rob a home and go to hell laws" are worded in such a way as to create a rebuttable presumption that the homeowner was in fear for his life and that the use of deadly force was justified. Even in the states most protective of the homeowner, if the facts show it was a deliberate execution or the suspect was trying to flee, or the homeowner is stupid enough to admit it was not necessary, he can still be prosecuted.

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Originally Posted by FarangRed

Local resident talks about Bramhall stabbing death - YouTube

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What the fuck did he say?

He had a northern accent, i haven't a clue either :)

its perfectly clear,

"f'a blorks defendin is orm thats raht, if summun comes inna maa orm 'n me waahfs there ad kill im storn ded its meorim, thats t'point"

^ That's made things a good deal clearer, thanks :)

Revealed: The lifetime of crime of knifed ‘burglar’ killed in Bramhall home ‘raid’


https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif Raymond Jacob died during the alleged raid at the house in Bramhall

A suspected burglar fatally stabbed by a householder ‘in self-defence’ had been jailed at least eight times, it has emerged.
Raymond Jacob, 37, had a string of previous convictions dating back to the 1990s. Jacob was stabbed to death during an alleged raid at the Bramhall home of businessman Vincent Cooke, 39.
Mr Cooke was arrested on suspicion of murder, telling detectives he had acted in self-defence.
The father-of-one was released on police bail pending further enquires.
Today it emerged that Jacob had been locked up on many occasions from the age of just 21, when he was sent to a young offenders’ institution for six months for stealing a car.
He went on to serve at least seven other custodial sentences for theft, burglary, assault and robbery offences in Greater Manchester.
The longest jail term handed to him was 30 months for a burglary.
He was also separately handed eight weeks in jail for theft, five months for robbery, five months for assault, four months for burglary and another four months for burglary.
Jacob was also jailed for 18 months after beating up a stranger during a night out in 1999.
He admitted grievous bodily harm when he appeared at Mold Crown Court following the incident in Handforth, near Wilmslow.
Yesterday Michael Anthony Thorpe, 33, of Outwood Road, Heald Green, appeared before Stockport magistrates accused of aggravated burglary at Mr Cooke’s home on Saturday night.
He was remanded in custody and the case was sent to Minshull Street Crown Court for trial on December 2.

Seems to me a job well done,saved the tax payer plenty of cash as the robber was a habitual criminal.
We should pay the bloke they tried to rob a reward for ridding us of a thieving scum bag.

^ or at least all chip in for the bail money

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Originally Posted by oxyjohn

Bramhall is in Stockport which is Greater Manchesters most affluent borough. However, dotted throughout Stockport are the usual scumbag councill estates. Midland Road has council housing on one side and private housing on the other. While the welfare state in the UK rewards the dreggs to have ever more children and one generation passes its defective genes on to the next then this problem will for ever be on the increase. Glad the toe rag in this report is dead but there are thousands more were he came from. I hate this town (Stockport) and i hate this country.

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I used to drive a cab in Stockport, not too bad a place compared to a lot of other towns but as you say it has some of the wealthiest and poorest parts of Grerater Manchester mixed together.

Lets hope in this case common sense prevails.

Cheers

It is a sad reflection on sentencing guidelines that allowed this persistant offender to commit crime after crime, especially ones that involve burglary and violence with virtually no deterent.

A custodial sentence lasting a mere few months for such serious offences is undoubtedly sending a message to habitual criminals that crime, does indeed pay.

The good citizens of the nation deserve to be protected from such immoral people for it is they that are paying due taxes into the system.

The people of Britain heard from the last labour government that they would be 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime'.

Now, if being 'tough on crime' means locking someone up that has committed a serious offence for a mere few months, then that government has clearly lost it's way.

If non payment of fines can ultimately lead to longer sentencing it is inconceivable that a serious re-offender could possibly serve less.

Imo, this mans death is indirectly the cause of lenient sentencing, indeed if he were alive he may well be agreeing. :)

The nation can only hope that such cases as this are highlighted and a review of sentencing guidelines for serial/serious offenders is made a priority. if not then i suspect with homeowners now seemingly taking much of the responsibility upon themselves when confronted with burglars such headlines may become commonplace.

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Originally Posted by Mr Lick

It is a sad reflection on sentencing guidelines that allowed this persistant offender to commit crime after crime, especially ones that involve burglary and violence with virtually no deterent.

A custodial sentence lasting a mere few months for such serious offences is undoubtedly sending a message to habitual criminals that crime, does indeed pay.

The good citizens of the nation deserve to be protected from such immoral people for it is they that are paying due taxes into the system.

The people of Britain heard from the last labour government that they would be 'tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime'.

Now, if being 'tough on crime' means locking someone up that has committed a serious offence for a mere few months, then that government has clearly lost it's way.

If non payment of fines can ultimately lead to longer sentencing it is inconceivable that a serious re-offender could possibly serve less.

Imo, this mans death is indirectly the cause of lenient sentencing, indeed if he were alive he may well be agreeing. :)

The nation can only hope that such cases as this are highlighted and a review of sentencing guidelines for serial/serious offenders is made a priority. if not then i suspect with homeowners now seemingly taking much of the responsibility upon themselves when confronted with burglars such headlines may become commonplace.

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As I've said before, if they made prison a miserable fucking place to be, that perhaps people would be less inclined to commit crimes and risk returning.

Start by removing all TV and Internet, any luxuries, and make my ex-wife do all the cooking.

^ Even Norman Stanley Fletcher got 5 years back in the 70's :)

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

As I've said before, if they made prison a miserable fucking place to be, that perhaps people would be less inclined to commit crimes and risk returning. Start by removing all TV and Internet, any luxuries, and make my ex-wife do all the cooking.

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yeah, and stop them taking drugs and having gay sex

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Originally Posted by Mr Lick

^ Even Norman Stanley Fletcher got 5 years back in the 70's :)

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but he was a residivist, and Slade Prison isnøt open anymore !

Self-defence question over stabbing

A MAN who fatally stabbed a home intruder armed with a stun gun could be charged as police investigate whether he acted in self-defence.
Donald Brooke, 54, was in his back shed when a 30-year-old man broke into his Yagoona home on Tuesday afternoon.
When he went inside, Mr Brooke was threatened with a stun gun and then struggled with the invader, allegedly stabbing him in the chest and back.



The thief, from Canley Vale, ran out of the home, into a waiting car and was later found by an ambulance alone in Fairfield. He was taken to hospital in a critical condition but died that night.
Police have spoken with Mr Brooke but have not formally interviewed him and the homicide squad is involved in the investigation.
Chief Superintendent Peter Gillam would not speculate on whether Mr Brooke would face charges but said self-defence was a line of inquiry. ''We have to put ourselves in the mind of the person at the time and what that person perceives, what he fears, what he considers appropriate at the time,'' he said.
Mr Brooke's lawyer, Ali Hallani, said his client was traumatised but was being supported by family and friends.
A neighbour, who did not want to be identified, said the intruder had knocked on her door about 2.30pm on Tuesday.
''I had never seen him before, but he just wanted to know if any Iraqi people lived in the area,'' she said. ''Then I looked through the window and saw him go into a driveway.''
Another resident, identified only as John, said break-ins were not common in the street. ''But there is always something happening in this area; there is definitely a police presence,'' he said.
Police yesterday spoke with two men from Auburn about the incident but both were released.

These scumbags deserve everything they get.

The family of the suspected intruder stabbed to death by a householder have paid tribute to him.
Raymond Jacob, 37, died after suffering knife wounds during an alleged raid at the home of businessman Vincent Cooke, 39, in Bramhall, Stockport.
Mr Cooke, who said he stabbed Jacobs in self-defence, was arrested on suspicion of murder and has since been bailed.
In a statement released by police, Mr Jacobs’ family, who knew him as Ray, said: "We would like to express our distress at what has happened. Ray has had a drug problem in the past.
"However, Ray has been clean from drugs for many years and remained out of prison.
"Raymond has made a beautiful home and been hoping in recent weeks to get a full time job. Raymond was caring and loving to his family.
"Ray spent hours with his dog, which he idolised and spent time tending to his fish pond. Ray's family and friends are devastated at the loss of Raymond."
The statement went on to say that it was 'unclear' why Jacobs had been in Mr Cooke’s house when he died on Saturday evening, and that he would be deeply missed by his family and those who knew him.
Mr Jacobs’ family is supporting the police enquiry into how he died, the statement added, and appealed for people with information to contact the police.
Earlier this week, it emerged that Mr Jacobs had a string of convictions stretching back to the 1990s, including theft, burglary, assault and robbery.