Did Obama Cause The Shootings In Tucson?

Fair question, eh?

The media and democrats want people to focus on the nation’s “caustic political climate” after the tragedy yesterday. Maybe they should start with President Obama.

He may be the worst offender.

** Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
** Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
** Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
** Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
** Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
** Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
** Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
** Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
** Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

If the media really wants to improve the “caustic political climate” they may want to start at the White House...

nonsense as usual.

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Originally Posted by Dug

nonsense as usual.

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Dismissive and insulting...as usual.:rolleyes:

Fair points imo.

If the likes of Beck, bimbo, Coulter et all think that this will take the spotlight off them and their incendiary, irresponsible rhetoric they are mistaken. There was of course another potential mass murder incident averted a few months ago, when some nutcase all tooled up and ready to shoot out the Tides Foundation was pulled over in his car. And shot (no great loss).

The cold blooded murder of nine people, including a Congresswoman performing the entirely laudable act of meeting her Constituents, is both a tragedy and a day of national shame for America. Yet the incident itself, though tragic and unconscionable, represents the tip of an iceberg. What sort of country are you leaving your children if politicians are scared to even meet voters? What sort of functioning political system are you leaving them if no real issues are discussed, just brainless hyperbole like 'Socialism', 'born in Kenya', or 'Moslem'?

It may, in spite of it's recent economic catastrophe, remain the western champion of Capitalism. But the USA right now is no champion of Democracy. The Republican opposition reminds me of nothing more than petulant, obstructive schoolkids. That is no way to treat your great nation and what it represents. It is obvious that many on the Right are thoroughly ashamed by this tragedy, as they should be- so hopefully it will serve as a belated wake up call. If you reduce everything to the lowest common denominator, if you trash the truth and obscure the issues with incendiary lies and panic mongering, of course the nutcases will come out of the woodwork. Meanwhile, the country that you say you love continues it's startling fall from grace. The only lesson I'm receiving from the USA right now is that the rich love their money above all else, and the poor &/or ignorant are easily manipulated- sometimes to tragic result. These people have no right to carry a gun- I wouldn't even leave them in charge of a pea shooter.

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Originally Posted by sabang

If the likes of Beck, bimbo, Coulter et all think that this will take the spotlight off them and their incendiary, irresponsible rhetoric they are mistaken.

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perhaps you can cite a reference where either Beck Or Coulter are actually inciting violence?

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Originally Posted by sabang

the country that you say you love continues it's startling fall from grace.

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after Vietnam and you're still startled! Maybe you aren't paying attention

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Originally Posted by sappybanger

The only lesson I'm receiving from the USA right now is that the rich love their money above all else,

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Unlike the rich elsewhere in the world Americans are especially greedy! Righto!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mr Earl

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Originally Posted by Dug

nonsense as usual.

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Dismissive and insulting...as usual.:rolleyes:

Fair points imo.

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Have you noticed that the 'usual suspects' have nothing in their arsenal with which to respond to the OP? As in their pathetic attempts to shift blame to Palin etc for the shootings when it's documented big-time this whacked-out POS that did the shootings was a Moonbat Liberal

They don't call them Leftards for nothing, eh?:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Have you noticed that the 'usual suspects' have nothing in their arsenal with which to respond to the OP?

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OK, I'll bite. The nutter could have been influenced by Obama or just about any politician or blog that turn legitimate debate into ridiculous, "we're right, they're evil" rhetoric. All the negative campaigning, name calling and demonetization of political opponents by both parties is a disservice and turn off to those who want to hear intelligent debate on issues of importance.

Boonme, you are so full of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX-G6mxLuWQ


Did you get your socialist check this week Boonme? How's life with free government handouts?

Another one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlKpNLYUUm0

The OP is so absurd it barely bears responding to.
That's why the 'usual suspects' aren't really biting.

Wow I had no idea people were so out there. No wonder its harder and harder to think about going back for the kids sake. What kids sake?

I think that Sarah was unmistakeably wrong for having targets on maps. It is inexcusable and unforgivable. Of course I never would have supported her for president (or any other office) in the first place although I would be consider by most a right wing conservative.

She is a loud mouthed hag that needs to stay on the woods in Alaska. I tire of hearing friends, acquaintances and strangers saying how intelligent and hot she is.

The worst is when they say things like "She hot and she is a hunter" :puke: or "She looks sexy when she guts a deer". again :puke: She makes me ill from her inside to her outside. And again :puke:

I also ask where is the outcry of the Mussie inciters Where is the arrest and conviction of the Mussies that incite deadly violence.

Both are wrong and yet the scales of justice are not even in court or in conversation.

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Originally Posted by Mr Earl

perhaps you can cite a reference where either Beck Or Coulter are actually inciting violence?

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Right-wing hate over the past two years (timeline): http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/insurrection-timeline

^That still falls short of citing any reference where Beck is actually inciting violence.
While Beck call for unity and coexistence, the Obama modus operandi is confrontational and divisive, no question about it.

http://globalgrind.com/channel/news/...hs-ago-photos/

ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME?? Sarah Palin Put Sniper Marks On Congresswoman Giffords' Head 5 Months Agohttps://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif (PHOTOS)

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

This report was made on September 23, 2010 when Sarah Palin launched a new website:
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Sarah Palin has just thrown down the gauntlet with a new site called Take Back The 20, which is aimed at knocking off 20 Democrats who voted for Obamacare in GOP-leaning districts.

On the map, the districts are marked by snipers, which includes Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords' district..

Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head today at an event in her community.

The Site has been taken down early this afternoon.

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Originally Posted by PaulBunyon

Did you get your socialist check this week Boonme? How's life with free government handouts?

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Uh, like, what government handout is that, bud? :mid:

To suggest that anyone 'caused' it is absurd. There has been a lot of hateful aggressive rhetoric on both sides, ( if Obama 'caused' it, surely the shooter would have gone after a republican ) but in the end it's just an unfortunate case of one nutcase with access to a gun too many.
All this hand wringing over who caused it gets us nowhere.
And lets not get hysterical. It doesn't mean the end of anything, remember, Presidents have been shot.

I serious doubt it would have happened had Mc Cain been elected.

Politics rarely have been polarized as they are now.

Ya really don't need to be a rocket scientist to observe the obvious, don't ya know!

The level of incompetence of the current administration has no parallel. Not even Jimmy Carter's era was this bad

A documented read showing the left pointing guns at Sarah Palin's head. The left is guilty of hate even more than the right, But NOTHING is ever said about it then.

Michelle Malkin

Although though it is CLEARLY documented, it will be dismissed as it is on Michelle's site. However, if you can look at the evidence.

...he was supposed to be the unity candidate wasn't he?!

The idea that that map triggered this incident is a pretty piss weak argument... they don't even look like targets at first glance... there's no violent or suggestive language... "take a stand"? (e.g. no use of words like "trigger" or "shoot out" etc...), no violent imagery... it's pretty tame stuff... when I heard it on the radio I expected something more like the cover of a Rambo film.

It's far more plausible to trace this incident back to the Oklahoma bombings... to reach the point where you want to plan and execute something like this would take more than a couple of years I reckon... a lot of steps have to happen before you as a 22-year-old decide to rock up with a rifle instead of go out and get some poon-tang.

At the end of the day, the onus is on Obama to use different language... he's the president, not a bystander; that's not the same as saying he's specifically responsible for this; but he has demonstrated lack of judgement.
This is really stupendously reckless, and it's surprising it (and the rest) didn't have a profile during the election.
Obama: ‘If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun’ - Washington Wire - WSJ

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Originally Posted by chitown

needs to

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Aaah! so "needs to" in Americanese means "should"? yes? I could never work that out... it's like a red rag to me, it sounds like a command in Britisher.

What was Obama's line? If they bring knives we will bring guns????

The Right has no monopoly on Histrionics, or radical criminal behaviour- history tells us that. And while the political 'camps' are basically fluid- eg the GOP has moved further to the right in recent history- nevertheless both parties are traditionally considered to have their loonie or fringe elements, which they contain and keep in check.

They are kept in check by moderation at the centre, by a largely tacit, voluntary acceptance that political disagreements are fought out within a political arena. Call it a form of Elitism if you will, I'm cool with that, but the damage caused to the credibility and functioning of a working political system by using demagoguery, histrionics, outright lies etc to manipulate the great unwashed masses far outweigh any political point scoring benefits- because they degrade the overall system, and people will lose faith in it. Thats what is happening now in the USA.

Whilst possessing no monopoly, the Right is unquestionably the greatest offender right now. I can remember when it was the Left- firebrand Trade Union leaders and so forth. Now these people are free to spout off, if they are kept at the margins. That way, they cause minimal damage- and surely one of the reasons for the longevity and apparent sustainability of our political system is exactly that, the ability of our political system to incorporate widely differing points of view within it's fold. But there needs to be a centre, and an acceptance of the rules of engagement.

Where this has been recently lost, I feel, is because our whole political process has been subverted by an industry, a massive industry. The PR or 'communication' industry. The PR industry encompasses many things, eg advertising, Lobbying, the media, traditional "PR", speechwriting, product placement etc. The PR industry is, and always has been, about manipulation. That in itself is not necessarily sinister- but the uses to which it is put might be. For example, a whole generation of our Mothers were nurtured on buying detergents from bottles shaped like the erect male penis. This acts on subliminal levels- but some clever marketing guy getting you to seize their product off the supermarket shelf is an argument between vendors- such as Unilever and P&G, not a moral argument. It's just about who is manipulating consumer behaviour more effectively. Before the boys snigger, this is also the case with cars- who's phallic symbolism is fairly obvious too.

The PR industry is essentially amoral. It is the uses to which it us put that might raise moral arguments. Such as politics. In the case of politics, the animals are taking over the zoo. Political animals now effectively answer to the likes of the dirty digger and his minions, and Lobbyists- arms of the PR industry. Their political message, such as it is, is refined and twisted by the various arms of the manipulative PR industry, on behalf of the interest groups they represent.

There is a simple disconnect here- it is not for the PR industy to take over the political process and twist it's policies and messages for their own ends, specifically being the ends of their clients, those who pay them. That is dishonest, and taken too far a subversion of the democratic process and what it represents. It is dangerous. That is happening now, and in the absence of a 'centre' these days, not being adequately addressed. As I've pointed out, the recent mass murder of a Congresswoman and various attendee's at a gathering is an ugly manifestation of this, yet in itself the tip of an iceberg.

It is a tragedy that these lives were lost in the process, but hopefully the incident might cause some rational people to pause and reconsider. It might become a symbol, a watershed. Because the 'game' the manipulators of the Right are playing is a road to nowhere. Never before has the likes of a Glenn Beck been given such prominence on a mass communications channel. Most of the mooted GOP Presidential candidates actually work for, are paid by, Fox- don't you think that is amazing, and disturbing?? What is the end game here? Unaddressed, the next stage is copycat behaviour by the loony minions of the Left- copycat slayings, threats, and bombings. Do you think that is desirable, or sustainable? So I hope the attempted murder of Congresswoman Giffords et al acts as a wake up call. Don't play with fire, any kid should know that.

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Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

The idea that that map triggered this incident is a pretty piss weak argument.

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In isolation, yes.

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Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

there's no violent or suggestive language..

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Where suggestion begets violence is subjective. But we do know that nutcases are more suggestible to histrionics. No need to cringe- we all have them.

The more extreme political rhetoric from the Right now is begetting violence.
If this same atrocity had been carried out by a latter day Black Panther at a Tea Party gathering, methinks your attitood might be quite different.

Says is all really...

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

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Originally Posted by sabang

Black Panther at a Tea Party gathering, methinks your attitood might be quite different.

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You're right, I'd probably care even less...
Glorifiers of treachery to King George being popped by a group with no cultural significance in the UK. ;p

I don't really buy into all that rhetoric you put up. It seems convenient to just stamp a political label onto a psychiatric episode... is there any evidence about the politics of the perp?
Can a 22-year-old really even have any meaningful political position?!

So in isolation a very lightweight piece of political postery can have no significance when taken out of context; and a Obama's overt fighting talk has no significance when taken in context?

"if you trash the truth and obscure the issues with incendiary lies and panic mongering", the left is innocent of that?! really!?

It doesn't make a very plausible argument to say that the lefties are the goodies and the righties are the baddies... there is such a thing as provocation...

One of the fundamental problems with the left is the refusal to permit any dissent from their world view; whereas the right will ultimately always let lefties do what they want as long as it doesn't affect them. It's the left's general inability to tolerate in this same way that the right does, that ultimately leads to conflict.
If the left limited the implementation of their grand plans to the domains of their faithful flock, and left the right along, one might anticipate fewer trees slaughtered at the alter of news.

Of course Obama did not cause the shooting. Again shows how stupid the media or anyone else is to try and drum up controversy.

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Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

is there any evidence about the politics of the perp?

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He's registered to vote as an Independent. Dangerous, unpredictable bunch. Never know what they are liable to do.

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Originally Posted by Norton

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Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

is there any evidence about the politics of the perp?

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He's registered to vote as an Independent. Dangerous, unpredictable bunch. Never know what they are liable to do.

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But, he was described as a left-wing pothead by his so-called friends. And, as we all know, there's nothing more dangerous than one a them pot-smoking left wing herb-smokers...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mr Earl

....still falls short of citing any reference where Beck is actually inciting violence.

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How ‘bout this then?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQcvbw6ExTQ&feature

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Originally Posted by S Landreth

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Originally Posted by Mr Earl

....still falls short of citing any reference where Beck is actually inciting violence.

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How ‘bout this then?

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Yep 22 seconds taken out of context might convince the gullible haters.

If you take the segment in context you will see that the "shoot them in the head" reference was an analogy to how the true communist believers are zombies and incapable of dialogue.
If Beck was indeed serious advocating violence, it wasn't that compelling I'm sorry.
I don't feel even remotely compelled to shoot anyone in the head.

Read the entire transcript if you dare to expose yourself to the truth.

^I got the article from here: ‘You’re going to have to shoot them in the head,’ Beck said of Democratic leaders | Raw Story


"Tea parties believe in small government. We believe in returning to the principles of our Founding Fathers. We respect them. We revere them. Shoot me in the head before I stop talking about the Founders. Shoot me in the head if you try to change our government.

"I will stand against you and so will millions of others. We believe in something. You in the media and most in Washington don't. The radicals that you and Washington have co-opted and brought in wearing sheep's clothing — change the pose. You will get the ends.

"You've been using them? They believe in communism. They believe and have called for a revolution. You're going to have to shoot them in the head. But warning, they may shoot you.

"They are dangerous because they believe. Karl Marx is their George Washington. You will never change their mind. And if they feel you have lied to them — they're revolutionaries. Nancy Pelosi, those are the people you should be worried about.

"Here is my advice when you're dealing with people who believe in something that strongly — you take them seriously. You listen to their words and you believe that they will follow up with what they say."

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Originally Posted by sabang

The Right has no monopoly on Histrionics, or radical criminal behaviour- history tells us that. And while the political 'camps' are basically fluid- eg the GOP has moved further to the right in recent history- nevertheless both parties are traditionally considered to have their loonie or fringe elements, which they contain and keep in check.

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OKAY... here's the thing... Looking at Histronics, we really shouldnt be saying the republican party of today is harder to the right than in past years.... If thats the case what are people using as a bar for *What Conservatism is*? Lets be honest if you look at histronics both FDR and JFK were much more to the right than todays republican party. The democratic party has completely lost touch with the people and I am sorry to say so has the republican party.....

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Originally Posted by Mr Earl

^That still falls short of citing any reference where Beck is actually inciting violence.
While Beck call for unity and coexistence, the Obama modus operandi is confrontational and divisive, no question about it.

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Right out of the Saul Alinsky handbook Rules for Radicals.

Here's a pic of Obma teaching a portion of R4Rs. And it's not photoshopped.

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif