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Wow this war on terror is really working.
The BBC reports that poppy cultivation in Afghanistan is to increase 59% this year acounting for 92% of the world opium output.
The trade now accounts for 33% of the Afghan economy.
BBC NEWS | South Asia | UN warns of soaring Afghan opium
Of course they are behind it.
Don't forget, there is still a war on drugs going on and there is no war without drugs is there?
It plays perfectly into their hands that they can rave on about the drug problem along with everything else.
you anti-American mofo's never stop do ya? the poppy farmers in Afghanistan are under contract and have license to grow. the illegal crops are destroyed when they are found.
other uses for poppy
Poppy
Papaver somniferum
Annual
Flowers July-Aug.
Common Names / Habitat / Magickal Uses / Edible Uses / Medicinal Uses / Cultivation / Propagation
Common Names: Adormidera, Adormidero, Blue Bread Seed Poppy, Chandu, Gelinjik, Hashas, Kheshkhash Abu Al Noum, Madat, Mawseed, O Fang, O Fu Jung, O P'Ien, Opium, Opium Poppy, Poppy, Poppy, Opium, Poppy, Opium, Tengkoh, White Poppy, Ya P'Ien, Yu Mi
Habitat: Not known in a truly wild situation.
Magickal Uses: *POISON* See below.
Edible Uses: Leaves; Oil; Seed. Seed - raw or cooked. Much used as a flavouring in cakes, bread, fruit salads etc, it imparts a very nice nutty flavour. The crushed and sweetened seeds are used as a fillling in crepes, strudels, pastries etc. The seeds are perfectly safe to eat, containing very little if any of the narcotic principles. Highly nutritious, the seed contains about 22.7% protein, 48% fat, 9.8% carbohydrate, 7.1% ash. The seeds are rather small, but there are large numbers of them contained in capsules 3cm or more in diameter and so they are easy to harvest and utilize. Edible young leaves - raw or cooked. They must be used before the flower buds have formed. One report says that the leaves do not contain any narcotic principles. Some caution is advised, see notes at top of the page. A high quality edible drying oil is obtained from the seed. It has an almond flavour and makes a good substitute for olive oil.
Medicinal Uses: Anodyne; Antispasmodic; Antitussive; Astringent; Diaphoretic; Emmenagogue; Expectorant; Homeopathy; Hypnotic; Narcotic; Sedative. The opium poppy contains a wide range of alkaloids and has been a very valuable medicine, especially useful in bringing relief from pain. Its use (especially of the extracted alkaloids opium and morphine which it contains) can become addictive, however, and so it should be treated with extreme caution and only be used under the supervision of a qualified practitioner. The dried juice (latex) from the unripe green seed vessels is a rich source of the active alkaloids, including morphine. It is extracted by making shallow incisions in the capsules as soon as the petals have fallen. Care must be taken that the incisions do not penetrate to the interior of the seed capsules. The latex exudes from the capsules and dries in contact with the air - it is then scraped off. This latex is anodyne, antitussive, astringent, diaphoretic, emmenagogue, hypnotic, narcotic and sedative. As well as its pain-relieving properties, the latex has also been used as an antispasmodic and expectorant in treating certain kinds of coughs, whilst its astringent properties make it useful in the treatment of dysentery etc. A homeopathic remedy is made from the dried latex. This is used in the treatment of a variety of complaints, including constipation, fevers and insomnia.
Cultivation: Prefers a rich well-drained sandy loam in a sunny position. Requires a moist soil but does not do well on wet clays. Prefers a sandy loam or a chalky soil. Plants often self-sow in British gardens. The opium poppy is a very ornamental plant that is often cultivated in the flower garden. There are many named varieties, some of which have been developed for their edible uses. The plant is widely grown, often illegally, in warm temperate and tropical climates for the substances contained in its sap. These are often used medicinally as pain killers, especially in the treatment of terminally ill patients suffering extreme pain, they are also used for their narcotic effects by some people. These substances are highly addictive and lead to a shortening of the life span if used with any frequency. In cool temperate zones the plant does not produce sufficient of the narcotic principles to make their extraction feasible and cultivation of the plant is perfectly legal in Britain. Plants have ripened their seeds as far north as latitude 69°n in Norway. Members of this genus are rarely if ever troubled by browsing deer or rabbits.
Propagation: Seed - sow spring or autumn in situ.
From the 2000 Horizon Herbs catalog: Easy to germinate, but must be sown in cold soils. Direct-seed in early spring, just after the last frost. Press hard into soil surface. They will grow rapidly in rich, moist soils. Thin to 6 inches apart. Grows 3 to 4 feet tall.
^ Talk about looking through things in rose-tinted spectacles
No need to be abusive young man.
I agree I took a bit of a liberty with the title, in order to get viewers, but what was anti-american in my post?
From my reading the US is concerned and dspite all that you have posted the US too believes that the poppys are being cultivated for illegal drugs or are they anti american as well.
"The UN Office on Drugs and Crime predicted a 6,100-tonne harvest of opium"
"But a top US drugs official warned on Saturday Afghanistan could be "taken down by this whole drug problem". "
"This country is so fledgling, so fragile, and you've got a narco-economy now " If this thing gets out of hand, you could move from a narco-economy to a narco-state," he said.
"Then you have a very difficult chance for this country being able to achieve what it needs to as a democracy and a nation representing its people."
Doug Wankel, Director, US drugs control office
The Vienna-based Office on Drugs and Crime office chief Antonio Maria Costa said southern Afghanistan was showing signs of collapse. The political, military and economic investments by coalition countries are not having much visible impact on drug cultivation."
What are the sources for your statements?
Are all these poppies being cultivated under government orders for Remembrance Sunday? Personally i think not
"under contract" from whom? The warlords, tribal eaders, terrorists, governmeents , users, who?
I do not doubt that the official word is that you need to be licensed to grow poppies and that any unlicensed areas found wil be destroyed. But to find you have to look. Who is looking? The government has limited control at best on aything outside of Kabul.
If you believe everything is destroyed then you are naive at best and how do you explain the numbers previously quoted?
Granted not conclusive and I have not been to Afghanistan to see for myself but until I see some proof to the contrary despite the efforts of the international coalition Afghanistan is going backwards not forwards whch does not bode well for anyone
My concern that outside of Kabul Afghanistan is back to where it was pre-taleban.
Democracy - bollocks.
The Russians had the right idea " These guys are tough and hold nothing of interest for us. Lets get the hell out and leave them the heck to it"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bung
Thank god fo the war on drugs in the US, It dropped he price of cocain, and is still lower then it was prior to the war.
Keep it up, good work, (at least they did something that benifites me.:D )
the way I took it you meant that the u.s was involved in the trafficking of opium???
maybe your title should have read
Is the US government behind on the illegal drug trade?
What else do the poor farmers have to do? In Colombia they spent hundreds and hundreds of years happily growing coca plants and as soon as they realise that there is an enormous market in the US for the refined product, ooops, in come the heavies to take over swiftly followed by US troops dropping pesticide or doing whatever they want to make sure that someone suffers.
Given that first the Russians, then the Taliban and now the Americans and British have kicked seven levels of shit out of the country in the last 20 years, if you could make a few extra quid growing poppies, wouldn't you?
And where does it all go anyway? If there's no market, there would be no opium. Oh, but that was us, wasn't it? Selling opium to the Chinese back in the 18th and 19th centuries. Sorry about that.
Drugs are used to pay for debt. How do you think many of these countries pay for U.S. military hardware and assistance? The drug trade brought hundreds of millions of dollars to Latin America which was turned around to help pay debt back to Uncle Sam.
By having a war on drugs it artificially keeps the prices higher generating more illegal revenue.
The Taliban outlawed this stuff, ironically, now it's at near record production.
surasak wrote: The Taliban outlawed this stuff, ironically, now it's at near record production.
the one good thing they did. now if we could just get them to stop oppressing the women and let them go to school, stop trying to kill anyone who is not of their religion, and stop supporting and training terrorist then we would let them have their country back :)
Aren't we killing Muslims because they aren't Christian? If Muslim terrorists were Christian instead would we still be bombing them?
Not sure what you're up to here, Surasak. Religion hasn't stopped the US overthrowing governments in central and south America. Didn't stop them bombing the shit out of Vietnam and Laos. Not too many muslims there. A Christian country in the middle east isn't likely to treat people like the Taliban. We certainly can't condone their attempts to turn Afghanistan back 1000 years into some sort of weirdo mediaeval state, but then, as with just about every other episode of this sort, the Americans (and allies) have no idea what to do once they've removed the country's leaders. Hey, what do we do now? Errr, no idea.
In Vietnam it was to support Catholicism and the same in Central and South America. Don't forget the South Vietnamese President was a devout Catholic and the Catholic Church was the biggest landowner in Vietnam.
All this can happen if and only if uncle sam changes its absurd foreign policy. Start with the Sauds.Quote:
Originally Posted by KID
Quote:
Originally Posted by surasak
reaching for straws on that one arn't ya surasak ?
^ Take a look and tell me what you think:
Vietnam
This is reflective of what I was taught in college as well.
Vietnam Veterans Against the War: History of the U.S. War in VietnamQuote:
"War is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes...How many millionaires ever shoulder a rifle?
"For a great many years as a soldier, I had the suspicion that war was a racket. Not until I retired did I fully realize it.
"I was," said Butler of his own role in Central American intervention, "nothing more than a gangster for Wall Street."
^ So the "Domino Theory" and Communism had nothing to do with it? You were taught some strange shit at college.
The domino theory was an excuse...just as the war on terrorism makes it easier to invade Iraq, Iran, or whever the administration want to go.
If you make it a religious war or an economic war nobody will buy into it. Create a hidden fear and you get people to listen and support you.
Remember the phrase "Godless Communists?" That tells you what it was about.
Read about history. The capture of a Catholic Bishop that the United States was unable to free. The French. The Catholic Church. The fact that the South Vietnamese goverment was stacked with Catholics in a predominantly Buddhist nation.
And of course the intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq have to be 'paid' for. We don't just invade somewhere for the hell of it, otherwise, the bloodshed in Africa would have stopped. We don't care unless there's an economic benefit, and, in Afghanistan that's heroin and in Iraq it's oil.
The French and Catholic Church in Vietnam is an interesting twist but not unlikely. I think it was a mixed of different things that reinforced the need to go to war. At the end it's always on a silly pretense. America is no different from Europe before WW2 when the French, Germans would go on fighting on stupid shit !!!
WW2 was their last stop. Iraq will be that stop for America.
Consider too the three most lucrative commodities traded today: oil, narcotics, and arms.
Do you really think the U.S. would sit out of one of those?
Initially the support for South Vietnam was as a proxy to the Vatican. Once we got stuck there, however, we tried to fight as the French did and lost. You cannot win a war against those who are too willing to stand up and fight.
The biggest irony perhaps is that we trained Ho Chi Minh and supported him before the war. Then we ignored him, he switch loyalties to the Chinese/Russians, and he ate our lunch. Another bin Laden?
well, isn't that history repeating itself.
Narco and Arms certainly go in pair. However I am surprised all these dealers can survive with all the new banking control for the flow of money. Must be a nightmare to launder all this unless the CIA is doing the cleaning for them.
Precisely. What better entity than the U.S. goverment and the Federal Reserve to handle the money laundering?
Do recall that the current leader of Afghanistan was in fact a supporter of the Taliban. And now he's the leader? What are we getting out of the arrangement?
The banking laws have become so ridiculous, it's almost impossible for a foreigner to open a bank account as an expat in ANY country. Thailand has become the exception, but SINGAPORE is a fucking pain in the ass. You have to be introduced by a local customer to the fucking branch manager to open a small account of 1K USD
Private bankers in Singapore will not even take your money, even if you have 1m USD, on the silly pretense they don't want to be personally liable for money laundering (even though you work as an expat). What the fuck are they ? a bank? or enforcement officers ? They must be losing a ton of new business, but again there is too much money in banks already, so they don't give a fuck for another 1m
Time to buy gold... wait we can't anymore, it's illegal to own bars of GOLD !!!
I don't think we whore for the Vatican. We do things that suit us and our ambitions. Back in the 50s and 60s the stupid asses at the State Dept probably felt a Catholic would hold more westernized ideals (like Chiang Kai Shek) and would thus be easier to communicate with.
Is it ever one thing that leads to war? All the interest groups line up and begin pushing for what they want out of war and if they can all push hard enough the country goes to war. I think Communisn threatened our economic and social system so our wealthy corporate leaders (industrialists) and religious interest groups lobbied for the decision to thwart Communismt wherever it attempted to leave its agreed upon boundaries. We chose Vietnam to carryout that policy. Having a Catholic leader seated as head of the S. Viet government and finding oil fields off Vietnam's shallow and wide coastline were some of the benefits derived from the policy. I don't see them as having been the specific goal. I don't see US policy being formulated to be so narrow that it could soley focus on Vatican interests.
The policy is to shoot the the cow to keep the disease from spreading to the rest of the herd. The fact that the vultures feed on the carcass doesn't mean the animal was shot to feed those specific vultures.
As far as the S. Viet government being stacked with Catholics, that's what politicans do. They hire their fellow lodge members and relatives in order to fullfill an obligation and to consolidate power. Overall, they hire people who are on the same page who will keep the money within the loop and who are less likely to assassinate them. It's nepotism and cronyism.
Don't be so sure of yourself.
Think about it: what two things happened in Vietnam to bring the U.S. and the Vatican together: threat to Catholicism and threat of Communism. Catholics were scared of losing their ground in Asia and the U.S. was scared of communists gaining power. If Ho Chi Minh should have won both the U.S. would have lost (communists would have won) and the Vatican would have lost (don't forget, the Church is very wealthy and that wealth comes from having land ownership and tithes in each country).
So, what did the Vatican have to offer: a pledge that the Catholic administration of a South Vietnam would cooperate in exchange for military assitance (which the Vatican doesn't have). Political control traded for military power. A win-win for the U.S. and the Vatican.
Without the Vatican it's highly unlikely the U.S. would have had any ally from the start.
So, yes, God takes precedence over military and economic interests.
A Buddhist Vietnam would have been a disaster for the Church and a Communist one would have been a disaster for the United States.
In the end, ironically, it was supporting the Catholic regime that ultimately caused everyone to lose respect and faith in the U.S (leading to instability and ultimate loss of the war).
I had a trip to the Hall of Opium, on the river north-west of Chiang Rai earlier this year. Fascinating place, really well done. Governments have been up to their necks in trading narcotics since the year dot. UK, US, U name it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Oil is certainly the Opium of western civilization. The parallels are stunnig.
Nothing really new here.
This is an interesting read
The book was banned in the USA for many years.