Organic farm

Went to visit this place near saraburi the other day.

It has not used any chemicals whatsoever for 20 years, they grow everything including rice this way.

Also raise pigs, chickens, fish and mushrooms.

In total around 160 rai.

While some garden plots looked a little sad, most were looking very good.

One area they had sectioned off and made an example of a 5rai self sufficient farm, again, growing pretty much everything.

I sometimes think it would be nice to say fcuk it all and sit back and just do the same and think of nother else.

Apparently the guys here were saying there is a very famous farang amongst the thai government, everyone knows him or of him, he lives on 6 rai in Korat area somewhere and does just this.

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Looks like a really good operation, thanks for posting the photos. It does sound appealing. Sorry, but what does "there is a very famous farang amongst the thai government" mean? Is he famous for farming when foreigners are in fact prohibited from engaging that occupation? Honest question, not trying to be a smartass.

Ah, just checked in Mikey Doyle's book- apparently there is a clause stating "except for work requiring specific skills in farm supervision."

yeah, for farming re the kings sufficiency deal.

But like nobody else been doing it for the last 100 years or so,

this might be of intrest

The Fairtrade Foundation | Fairtrade - Boonjira Tanruang, Green Net Co-operative, Thailand

Thailand’s organic rice farmers enjoy health benefits

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Originally Posted by baldrick

this might be of intrest

The Fairtrade Foundation | Fairtrade - Boonjira Tanruang, Green Net Co-operative, Thailand

Thailand’s organic rice farmers enjoy health benefits

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Good linkies, cheers. Green Net has a website: Green Net Organic FairTrade

thanks:
good thresd

i will bet the bugger uses poison just outside his farm's boundaries to keep the neighbours' chickens/ducks/kids off his veggie patch, or it would look like the usual thai desert!
i always wondered how the thais managed to produce any vegetables at all, using the "traditional" methods:
rape the land; add copious amounts of chemical fertilizers; do not even think about contour ploughing, crop-rotation etc, and then poison every fkkn insect that could possibly have aided pollination for miles around.
i had a neighbour who planted a rai or two of rice, ran out of money, used no chemicals (couldn't afford it) and got a far higher yeild per rai than many of the other idiots nearby did.
organics is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Nawty

yeah, for farming re the kings sufficiency deal.

But like nobody else been doing it for the last 100 years or so,

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Curious Nawty, what is HM's Sufficiency deal? As to this organic business - I know quite a number of Thai farmers that practice this sort of horticulture/agriculture model. Have been for some time.

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Originally Posted by Rural Surin

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Originally Posted by Nawty

yeah, for farming re the kings sufficiency deal.

But like nobody else been doing it for the last 100 years or so,

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Curious Nawty, what is HM's Sufficiency deal? As to this organic business - I know quite a number of Thai farmers that practice this sort of horticulture/agriculture model. Have been for some time.

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i would also like to hear more about this sufficiency shit:
sufficiency economy buzzword has been bandied about for years, and i have still not managed to find out exactly what the "big guy" is on about, what it really means and how it is supposed to work..
does he practice it himself, or does he have sufficient?

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Originally Posted by tsicar

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Originally Posted by Rural Surin

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Originally Posted by Nawty

yeah, for farming re the kings sufficiency deal.

But like nobody else been doing it for the last 100 years or so,

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Curious Nawty, what is HM's Sufficiency deal? As to this organic business - I know quite a number of Thai farmers that practice this sort of horticulture/agriculture model. Have been for some time.

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i would also like to hear more about this sufficiency shit:
sufficiency economy buzzword has been bandied about for years, and i have still not managed to find out exactly what the "big guy" is on about, what it really means and how it is supposed to work..
does he practice it himself, or does he have sufficient?

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I'm rather interested in the mechanics/politics of such a policy. With all due respect allotted to the Crown, for decades upon decades they have instilled hundreds of community projects of every description. Be it out of their own pocket or integrated institutionally underwritten government programs. Such principles that I could challenge are the overt consciousness of self-sufficiency. Most Thai communities are quite capable of being self-reliant without intervention. Instinctive within the extended familiar/social model of cummunity. What has broken down this pattern of sustainable living are the borrowed ideals of a Western mindless 'need', 'want', and unnecessary consuption - the cash and credit based existence. Very very destructive and contradictory to any such self-sufficient practice. As to this "organic" mentality....this has been practice for centuries worldwide, just as a matter of course, just as it has been practiced universally in Thailand forever. The Western practice of chemicals and toxic agents was/is an introduced one. The contemporary Western consciousness of what 'organic' might be is nothing but a fashionable trend - as if the West conjured up the ideal and practices and then extend it to their brothers and sisters universally. Such bollocks.

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Originally Posted by Rural Surin

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Originally Posted by tsicar

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Originally Posted by Rural Surin

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Originally Posted by Nawty

yeah, for farming re the kings sufficiency deal.

But like nobody else been doing it for the last 100 years or so,

---

Curious Nawty, what is HM's Sufficiency deal? As to this organic business - I know quite a number of Thai farmers that practice this sort of horticulture/agriculture model. Have been for some time.

---

i would also like to hear more about this sufficiency shit:
sufficiency economy buzzword has been bandied about for years, and i have still not managed to find out exactly what the "big guy" is on about, what it really means and how it is supposed to work..
does he practice it himself, or does he have sufficient?

---

I'm rather interested in the mechanics/politics of such a policy. With all due respect allotted to the Crown, for decades upon decades they have instilled hundreds of community projects of every description. Be it out of their own pocket or integrated institutionally underwritten government programs. Such principles that I could challenge are the overt consciousness of self-sufficiency. Most Thai communities are quite capable of being self-reliant without intervention. Instinctive within the extended familiar/social model of cummunity. What has broken down this pattern of sustainable living are the borrowed ideals of a Western mindless 'need', 'want', and unnecessary consuption - the cash and credit based existence. Very very destructive and contradictory to any such self-sufficient practice. As to this "organic" mentality....this has been practice for centuries worldwide, just as a matter of course, just as it has been practiced universally in Thailand forever. The Western practice of chemicals and toxic agents was/is an introduced one. The contemporary Western consciousness of what 'organic' might be is nothing but a fashionable trend - as if the West conjured up the ideal and practices and then extend it to their brothers and sisters universally. Such bollocks.

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i have to agree with you there, on a couple of points.
whoever gave these people herbicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, plastic bags and corrugated iron, deserves to be shot!
responsible use of the above could have improved their yeilds and their standard of living, but indiscriminate and use and ignorance haver screwed the entire place up.

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Originally Posted by tsicar

i had a neighbour who planted a rai or two of rice, ran out of money, used no chemicals (couldn't afford it) and got a far higher yeild per rai than many of the other idiots nearby did. organics is the way to go.

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that may be Ok for the first year, but not later on

we grow our rice organically, but have to buy a lot of cowshit from our neighbour to make the land fertile

we also do not burn the land after the rice has been harvested. Our neighbours made fun of us because of this, but now they are noticing that our rice is fatter and better quality than theirs, so they are also not burning.

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Originally Posted by DrAndy

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Originally Posted by tsicar

i had a neighbour who planted a rai or two of rice, ran out of money, used no chemicals (couldn't afford it) and got a far higher yeild per rai than many of the other idiots nearby did. organics is the way to go.

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that may be Ok for the first year, but not later on

we grow our rice organically, but have to buy a lot of cowshit from our neighbour to make the land fertile

we also do not burn the land after the rice has been harvested. Our neighbours made fun of us because of this, but now they are noticing that our rice is fatter and better quality than theirs, so they are also not burning.

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it is a pity maizefarmer never found his way over here.
he could have added some valuable input.
i have never been into the cropfarming thing, but have always been interested in organics and hydroponics(although it can be argued that hydroponics is somewhat less than organic)
i guess the key is : "sustainable use of the land"
easy to screw it up; get great yields for a season or two, and then you are stuck in the cycle where you HAVE to use the chemicals, or nothing will grow in the desert you created in the first place.

Elvis's sufficiency thingy is simply what people around the globe have practiced for centuries to different degrees.

But obviously the monkies in the villages have not had this knowledge fed to them for decades and when their beloved one comes up with the idea......bingo.....here is another brilliant Thai idea that only thailand could possibly think of doing.

Anyway....the sufficeincy thing is as I am sure you know, if you are the slightest bit interested in farming here, you will have heard and read about it.

Basically it was brought about when the country started to become to greedy, everyone wanted everything and borrowed money, from the government, cheap loand, credit cards etc etc were easy to get. Probably the huge runaway growth prior to 97/98 was the most influencing time for this and then it all tanked. People owed a fortune and could not pay it back.

Elvis was seen to be encouraging people to live within their means, produce their own food and stuff if they could not afford to buy it etc.

So the model farms came about where you could provide almost everything you needed to eat on small landholdings of under 10 rai. Small ponds for fish, pig pens, chickens, cow for milk, rice, vegies and some fruit trees that would produce what you needed rather than what took a long time to grow and produced little....like growing papaya etc.

On top of this was to grow a little extra to swap for the things within the community that you could not grow.....for example, an extra chicken or 2, so extra eggs and chicks and swap a dozen eggs for washing powder or a dead chook for a couple of litres of petrol etc etc.

Thats the broad jist of it as I understand it all.


My missus was dropped of at this farm today to do a 3 day course on it all re the EM system.

Still not sure if this place teaches how to make the EM or just how to use their commercialy made EM properly....either way shall learn a bit and then adapt to make our own hopefully.

Also might add that my reasoning for growing food this way is for my kids primarily, so we know what is going into our food.

Within Asia, especially here and China where a lot of food comes from in here, there is little regard for food safety as in the west.

After years of reading in Bkk of the crap injected into foods such as watermelon to make it red and pork to make it look better etc etc. I did not want my kids growing up and glowing in the dark.

My reasoning here is that within asia, the poor farmer HAS to sell his crop to make a living, so he may not give a shit if he overdoses it if poisons and shit, especially stuff that may be banned now in the west. He may not care, it is out his farm gate to the market and he knows not to eat it himself....but he has his money and can afford to buy a new buffalo now.

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Originally Posted by Nawty

After years of reading in Bkk of the crap injected into foods such as watermelon to make it red and pork to make it look better etc etc. I did not want my kids growing up and glowing in the dark.

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Parents have to think about this stuff, because if left to himself, my kid, at least, would be chuffed if he could find a way to make himself glow in the dark.

^^
So true. Actually Maize Farmer led me to a great pesticide for what I was trying to accomplish. He specifically warned me to read allllll the info on the web site as it had very specific instruction on how to use it and when it was safe to harvest or eat the produce.

When I purchased the same from the local ag dealer, not a small one either but one that services all of Chantaburi province, I was given instruction in English on how to use it. the directions were totally in conflict with the manufacturer's instruction.

This stuff is readily available and is quite poisonous in every aspect. It is especially toxic to fish and is NOT to be used where any runoff from rain could contaminate ground or stream water. Very specific instructions on how to mix the best concentrations etc. Used properly it has no hazards to humans or any other creatures, and really works in fighting the myriad of pests found here in Thailand.

Info only on the web site which I don't believe most Thai farmers have access to or can understand, especially the subsistence type of local farmer. Scary thought that Som Chai could get it and use it without understanding the impact

E G

the chemical companies have little or no compunction in selling to ignorant farmers around the world

even when some chemicals are banned in the west, they will keep selling to other countries

DDT is a prime example

The chemicals often get misused by farmers who cannot read and just follow their neighbours example

nice pics :):):):)

Exactly why I wish to at least try to do it properly.....proving very hard and frustrating but.

Even my Queen Bee ran away.....bitch.

^ can you ask the missus if she can find out from her course if there is access to the information online and in Thai ?

A problem I see with trying to set youself up a self contained residence is power.
Solar seems hard to procure here at a reasonable price.

small solar pumps like buadhai used for his fishpond could work to pump fish pond water to a hydroponic setup as nutriet and filter and then let it gravity feed back to the pond.

I would think self contained floating solar aerators for the fish ponds might work - not sure if they could do a sufficient job or if they are available.

No online access, but there is a booklet she has and is in Thai.

They run the course every month with foreign special course every 6 months.

Promising thing was to see 150+ thais doing the course and according to them, that is low, usually 300 to 400 do it each month.

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Originally Posted by DrAndy

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Originally Posted by tsicar

i had a neighbour who planted a rai or two of rice, ran out of money, used no chemicals (couldn't afford it) and got a far higher yeild per rai than many of the other idiots nearby did. organics is the way to go.

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that may be Ok for the first year, but not later on

we grow our rice organically, but have to buy a lot of cowshit from our neighbour to make the land fertile

we also do not burn the land after the rice has been harvested. Our neighbours made fun of us because of this, but now they are noticing that our rice is fatter and better quality than theirs, so they are also not burning.

it is a pity maizefarmer never found his way over here.
he could have added some valuable input.

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Maizefarmer is very knowledgeable, he's said he would like to use organic methods, but it's simply not profitable. As for growing for your your own needs, that's a different story. There was another guy on TV who knew a lot, but of course he was eventually banned.

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i guess the key is : "sustainable use of the land"
easy to screw it up; get great yields for a season or two, and then you are stuck in the cycle where you HAVE to use the chemicals, or nothing will grow in the desert you created in the first place.

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Actually I think it's the opposite, the more you use organic methods the better the soil should get and the more you'll learn, so each year it gets better.

Whereas the chemical fertilizers are mineral salts, so your slowly poisoning your soils. 90% of insects are beneficial, but the pesticides kill them as well, they also poison your soil killing all the worms and microorganisms.

The microorganism are vital - which is where EM helps.

Regarding farmers going into debt, I'm not sure it's due to greed. Chems were introduced from the West in it's 'Green Revolution'. Farmers in developing countries were encouraged to take out loans to buy the fertilizers and pesticides.

These fertilizers worked great and made farming much easier. Crop yields were higher, so prices went down and farmers didn't make the profits they expected and had difficulty paying off the loans.

When we harvest something organic elements have been removed from the soil, so they need to be returned. This is why it's important to compost everything organic, including our own shit.

If the produce leaves the farm, then we need to bring something from outside, e.g. manures, but these are very expensive compared to chems. Chook seems to be better value than cow poo.

One way to get 'free' fertilizer is with legumes, which can be veggies (like beans) or trees, many of which are fast growing. These take nitrogen gas from the air. With the trees you just trim them back and throw the cuttings down as mulch/fertilizer. When trimmed back some of the roots die also, adding more nitrogen to the soil.

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i.

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i guess the key is : "sustainable use of the land"
easy to screw it up; get great yields for a season or two, and then you are stuck in the cycle where you HAVE to use the chemicals, or nothing will grow in the desert you created in the first place.

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Actually I think it's the opposite, the more you use organic methods the better the soil should get and the more you'll learn, so each year it gets better..

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sorry, i MEANT they screw it up with the chemicals.

i don't know if it would be possible to rotate crops in paddies, as you suggested with legumes, eg soya, but this would give them an extra crop, plus put nitrogen back into the soil.
the soil in the paddies i have seen, planted and harvested year after year must be almost completely barren, so i suppose they HAVE to keep throwing in fertilizers, or nothing would grow at all.
same thing with the cassava.
the land is simply raped; planted and harvested in a never ending cycle, with nothing but chemicals to replace what was taken out.
very few in the area that i lived in even bothered with manure: the government was subsidising the chemical fertilizers.

^ Planting legumes would be an idea, one of the problems with paddy fields is they're hard clay, which doesn't make them suitable for many crops. It would be interesting to know about the nutrient content prior to the use of fertilizers. Maybe all the water flowing down into the paddies would also bring nutrients?

Another problem with the chems is the are only NPK, but the plants uses all sorts of minerals and micro nutrients, which generally aren't returned to the soil. I've read that fruit and vegies these days lacks minerals for this reason.

As I mentioned, the farm here has not used ANY chemicals for 20 years now and they grow a lot of rice. Their rice currently looked just as fit and healthy as any other rice plots if not moreso.

I do not see anything wrong with growing a bean crop on paddy in the off season, as long as you have the water to do it. Might do it myself on another 8 rai we have and see what it does.

Went down to pick up missus yesterday.....seems I am somewhat of a celebrity now amongst, I was asked to stand up for the crowd to say hello to and the missus was apparently picked out over the entire 3 days for attention because of me.

Anyway, she said the course was good, she met 2 new friends. Two sisters that were half thai/german and with farang/thai kids each. Very nice girls, but a somewhat unusual family situation amongst them all, made good listening all the way home.

Their Dad was apparently the first person to bring 'Bayer' chemicals into Thailand, so they knew a lot about chemicals and have thus chosen to never go near them again.

When I arrived at the farm, they were all singing and dancing in the hall prior to completion.

I had read the newsletter and saw many referances to Rev so and so and several other Japanese Rev's....did not know japs had Reverands. So seems a little religious stuff goes on.

I thought maybe they are recruitng for a Jonestown cult episode.....build up some high walls around the farm and have enough food to feed everyone.....then one day ....:pushing:

Anyway, all seems ok and shall hopefully putting to use the new found skills. Apparently this stuff can be used for lotsa things, even brushing your teeth.

Makes plants grow bigger and stronger and healthier.

I rubbed some on my penis last night.

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Originally Posted by Nawty

I rubbed some on my penis last night.

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Best bet is to have someone else rub it on, you'll see really quick growth that way.

Soooo did it work?

Yep....

Er.....sorry folks, getting back to the organic bit.....Would really like to get advice on Organic Farming, our entire farm sits on Red Clay. We dug a 2m stream (L shape) hoping to keep the cows from crossing into our land, also so that we can use the water from the stream to water our plants, would have cost a lot to run pipes all around. Within the last 2 months we planted lime, coconuts, lemon grass and other thai herbs (the common ones used for daily cooking needs). There were Mango trees palnted by the previous owner, that produced an abundance amount of fruits that we enjoyed giving them away last hervest. Hoping to grow our own vegetables when we build our house and live there next year.

We never throw away the leftovers from our meals into the trash anymore. We put it all into a big bin, mix the content with molosse and leave it to decompose. You might have to keep it in a seperate corner, well covered (you won't like the smell!). I understand that this is how EM is made? Apparently there are many different ways fo making EM, but the basic way I heard, is to mix everything edible, all natural into the pot and leave it to rot, the longer they are left, the better. Then we dilute it with water when we want to use it as fertilizer.

Mawty, may I ask the Missus to share some of the stuff from her course please. Just want to see if we are doing the thing right?

You can get together and talk to her about it no problem.

I don't think that the longer the 'tea' is left to rot the better, i believe there is an optimum timeframe for it all, to quick and no good, to long and can actually be poisonous to plants etc.

You should come to our farm and have a looksie, then go the the EM farm and have a look also, it is only 20 minutes from our place.

Organic growing is a very steep learning curve, we still not have it right 6 months down the track.

Thank you, can I call your Missus a call before meeting up sometime, cos I have some a couple of tubs, months old. If they are no good, better not give them to the plants. Wouldn't want them to grow up funny! :smileylaughing:

Can do

Called your Missus and she was not around.

Just wanted to know how long we can keep our mixes to cure before we have to find some other way of getting rid of them.

Keep calling, as I said, she does not always return missed calls if she not know the number.....call until she answers.

Thought I'd share the info I got from talking to your Missus that: the mixture's lifespan is 3 months, use them up or find another way of disposing with them as it will not be good any more.

Hi Folks, I am new to this forum, but I thought I would chip in with a few thoughts and ideas. I have read quite a few posts on the farming topics and it's all interesting stuff.

As for me and my wife we grow Palm and Rubber trees, all planted from scratch and cared for in the best way we can. I am not a born farmer, but have a little gardening experience - not that that helps much with a commercial farm.

I am trying to introduce more organic methods, which means that we are trying to do without chemical fertilizer or chemical weed and bugs killers. I believe that what you put on the land, will find it's way into the water table eventually.

Hence I am in the throes of creating a worm farming area on my land and using EM.
I am recycling all waste products from the farm, such as empty fruit bunches, Palm fronds chipped and mulched and all the dead wood from the rubber trees shredded and re introduced either directly to the land or composted and then returned. I just bought a chipper/shredder to enable this process to become easier. We are also using Bat excrement which is high in natural urea and ammonia which the palm like.

I want to buy a tractor/mower - collect the grass/weed and mulch part of it and some to compost, therby reducing weed killing chemical so often used to clear the land. I anticipate that this could be a pleasureable exercise?? or I hope it will out of the heat of the day. My Palm are now 60 months old and 50 months since planting, so they are providing some shade now. Riding through the Plam groves cutting the grass is my ideal!

On the subject of the "King's sufficiency deal" I believe what you mean is "Certikiet Porpian" Which I believe to mean "Appropriate use and quantity at the Appropriate time" basically it avoids excesses of anything and uses what is needed and nothing more. It is open to some interpretation, but that is in the mind of those who follow the principle. I stand to be corrected if wrong!

May you all grow beyond your wildest dreams!

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Originally Posted by Nawty

Went to visit this place near saraburi the other day.

It has not used any chemicals whatsoever for 20 years, they grow everything including rice this way.

Also raise pigs, chickens, fish and mushrooms.

In total around 160 rai.

While some garden plots looked a little sad, most were looking very good.

One area they had sectioned off and made an example of a 5rai self sufficient farm, again, growing pretty much everything.

I sometimes think it would be nice to say fcuk it all and sit back and just do the same and think of nother else.

Apparently the guys here were saying there is a very famous farang amongst the thai government, everyone knows him or of him, he lives on 6 rai in Korat area somewhere and does just this.

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Always enjoy your posts Nawty. Thought I'd add my 2 cents worth about organics, here. Over the last decade, there have been quite a few illnesses and deaths in the states from "tainted" spinach and lettuce. Tainted spinach: All bacteria may not come out in the wash - USATODAY.com CNN.com - 3rd death linked to E. coli outbreak from tainted spinach - Oct 6, 2006 This was caused by potent forms of E.Coli, a bacteria found in mammal stomachs. Manure from cows/pigs/chicken/sheep contain E.Coli, but US Department of Agriculture scientists believed that the E.Coli died off outside of the animal by 1 month. This has now been found to be not true. E.Coli has now been observed living outside of hosts for 200 days. This mutating E.Coli, (or evolving, if that has a less dramatic connotation for ya), can kill, at a minimum you get the Issan two-step. Whether it's manure washed onto crops by rain, or used as fertilizer, if the manure isn't truely and properly composted for more than 200 days, any crops grown in contact with it, that are not cooked before eaten, could be E.Coli tainted. There is no known way to clean vegetables to be eaten raw such as lettuces, that will kill off 100% of this bacteria without destroying the greens you're trying to eat! Chlorinated water washing will not do it! I am 100% in favor of organic growing, it just needs to be done properly, and safely. Death by salad such an ignomineous way to go!!!!