Who is the enemy?

We were told for years and years that communists were our enemy and that they wanted to destroy capitalism and bring our economies to their knees. Walls were built, fortunes squandered on missiles and armies on both sides, all to protect our way of life, our values, our freedoms and our jobs.

These days, communists are a bit passé and our freedoms and security, we are told, is threatened by Muslim extremists bent on blowing themselves up so that we might go to hell and they might enjoy 72 virgins for evermore.

But I don't buy it. The people who caused our economies to collapse aren't communists or Saudis. They are the leaders of our banks, stock markets and insurance companies, ably assisted by our politicians who either looked the other way as our money was stolen or who acted a cheerleaders for the plunder. Financial institutions took huge risks with our money. The pocketed the rewards and scarpered. They've left us and our children to pick up the tab. Every British family (apart from the captains of industry who trousered millions) is £40,000 worse off now than they were a year or two ago. We don't know how much worse it is going to get, but we don know it's going to get a lot worse.

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

I think there are plenty of people angry about it but theres very little you can do. There will always be a man at the top and a man at the bottom, if youre at the top you can get away with more things than the man at the bottom.

You can be the head of a multinational corporation, run it into the ground then ask the government to dip into our pockets to pay for it. If my dad went to the government and asked for a few quid to make sure his business didnt suffer too much in times like this they would laugh at him.

Living here many people say Thailand is corrupt, which it is, but theres also large scale corruption in the UK and the US but of a slightly different type. This corruption has a different face which is more or less accepted by the public as they are spoon fed it in a different way.

Financial crashes come an go.

I think the downfall of the Western economy was when mom and pop stores slipped off the scene and Walmart stores and Home Depot stores . The big stores are mismanaged and not customer friendly.

I really miss going down to the neighborhood grocery that was run by the Majewski family. Mr. Majewski would cut some fresh meat for you and could find any item anywhere in the store. Mrs. Majewski would ring you up and peel the wrapper off your ice cream sandwhcih for you.

Now you go into a Walmart and you can't find help. If you do they cant' find what your looking for and let you know that can't be bothered to do so.

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Originally Posted by chitown

Financial crashes come an go.

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Yes, but they're not like typhoons, they have causes - the decisions made by the people in charge. In another thread, we're all moaning about the lack of accountability for the owners and managers of the Santika pub disaster. So why aren't we moaning about the lack of accountability in our own financial institutions?

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

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maybe because it's not as bad as it should be ? bankers always fuckup the money you give them, it comes with the job, and it's never going to change.

When you are given too much money, you have no idea what to do with it, and banks are no exception, so you do stupid shit. You want to blame banks ? blame the stupidity and naivety of the public who gives away billions of their savings to those banks in hope of "better" returns. Blame the governments that have "deregulated" the banking industry, and the "anti-money" laundering laws that made banks central to our economy to fight "corruption".

we've all been happy enough to take the benefits of the boom years without asking too many questions.

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday.

move on.

You'll continue to have enemies if you're able and willing to play their game. Enemies are fabricated. Most of us are susceptible, because we play that game.

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Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

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"Sub primes" introduced and championed by------------Democrats

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Originally Posted by larvidchr

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Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

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"Sub primes" introduced and championed by--Democrats

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And Republicans.

This started in the 1990s.

GWB also signed the ADD Act: The American Dream Down Payment act.

This shouldn't turn to a struggle of political comparatives regarding political identity.....they're all one and the same. The sooner you all wake from your slumber the better off you will be.

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Originally Posted by Milkman

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Originally Posted by larvidchr

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Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

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"Sub primes" introduced and championed by--Democrats

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And Republicans.

This started in the 1990s.

GWB also signed the ADD Act: The American Dream Down Payment act.

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MM I believe that the SP actually was started by Jimmy Carter in 1977 give or take a year or two from there it developed into the monster that has brought the whole world to it's knees, Freddy and Fanny gave their biggest campaign contributions to Democrats through the years since it was mainly Democrats that ensured the schemes continued growth.

"Reinvestment Act (CRA) – a Carter-era policy that requires federal financial supervisory agencies to encourage banks to grant loans to people with low income and little credit – played a major role in sparking the sub-prime mortgage crisis the nation now faces, according to economist Russell Roberts, who spoke at a forum on the issue Thursday at the Hudson Institute." ( from CSNNews.com )

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Originally Posted by Rural Surin

This shouldn't turn to a struggle of political comparatives regarding political identity.....they're all one and the same. The sooner you all wake from your slumber the better of you will be.

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I agree. I feel that many Americans are blindly partisan and think the parties are different. They're actually so similar I consider them the same.

Look at where the soft money comes from. The same corporations.

Ds and Rs both collude.

"You support my bill X and I'll vote for your bill, Y."

^ All politicians a cvnts... Much like a used car salesman, you can always tell when they're lying because their lips are moving...

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Originally Posted by taxexile

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday. move on.

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So you're happy to adjust and move on when people steal your money, are you? Jeeze, I wished I lived next door to you, I could retire...

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Originally Posted by Milkman

"You support my bill X and I'll vote for your bill, Y."

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I think it goes much deeper than that. There certainly are some differences on the forgien diplomacy side of things. But generally speaking on the domestic side they are both very similar - spend, spend, spend.

Hopefull the recent ass-kicking the red team took will allow for some more traditional (small government) types to take that party in a different direction. Hopefully by the time they have the US dollar will still have some value.

The most recent exception to the above was back when Billy boy was in the WH. We had a blue team pres, and a red team congress - no deficit. Oh, those where the days.

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Originally Posted by larvidchr

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Originally Posted by Milkman

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Originally Posted by larvidchr

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Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

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"Sub primes" introduced and championed by--Democrats

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And Republicans.

This started in the 1990s.

GWB also signed the ADD Act: The American Dream Down Payment act.

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MM I believe that the SP actually was started by Jimmy Carter in 1977 give or take a year or two from there it developed into the monster that has brought the whole world to it's knees, Freddy and Fanny gave their biggest campaign contributions to Democrats through the years since it was mainly Democrats that ensured the schemes continued growth.

"Reinvestment Act (CRA) – a Carter-era policy that requires federal financial supervisory agencies to encourage banks to grant loans to people with low income and little credit – played a major role in sparking the sub-prime mortgage crisis the nation now faces, according to economist Russell Roberts, who spoke at a forum on the issue Thursday at the Hudson Institute." ( from CSNNews.com )

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True, the CRA started in the late 70s. And since then there have been many, many, new de-regulations, to fraudulent loan apps, the Pick-a-pay (Option Arms).

My point is that it's not about one political parties.

It's about both political parties.
HUD secretaries
private lenders
banks

Dishonest mortgage industry and stupid people who borrowed money they couldn't pay back.

it doesn't matter who started it, the Republicans didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution

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Originally Posted by Butterfly

it doesn't matter who started it, the Republicans didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution

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Same, same can be said of the other side as well.

It doesn't matter who started it, the Dems didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution.

So the Reps are not the Solution, and the Dems are not the solution - what is the solution?

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Originally Posted by Bugs

It doesn't matter who started it, the Dems didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution.

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I disagree, Democrats were only logical with their agenda, that is supporting Fiscal Spending and helping the "poor" to improve their lifestyle. This can't be said of the Republicans and highly hypocrite of them, as usual, to point the finger to others. They are useless, at least the Democrats have ideas to improve things, the Conservatives are only agitating their arms in the air and are mostly scared of their own shadow.

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Originally Posted by Bugs

what is the solution?

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Burn the Republican Party :)

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

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Originally Posted by taxexile

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday. move on.

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So you're happy to adjust and move on when people steal your money, are you? Jeeze, I wished I lived next door to you, I could retire...

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you never had the money anyway , it was all an illusion.

brickies in birmingham driving range rovers and living in 500,000 pound houses , if that isnt an illusion then what is. bound to come crashing down sometime.

multi million bonuses for banking incompetents , its always been like that. they dont deserve shit but i cant do nothing about it.


nobody stole anything from me and i dont owe anybody anything , interest rates and exchange rates are changing all the time. adapt or go under.

wallow in anger at something you have no power to do anything about , or move on and enjoy your life , its up to you !!!

i'm turning thai , living in a bubble , dont care about the rest of you anymore.

go away , move on , leave me alone.

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Originally Posted by taxexile

brickies in birmingham driving range rovers and living in 500,000 pound houses , if that isnt an illusion then what is. bound to come crashing down sometime.

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Someone should tell this to Dirty Dog, he might be missing great opportunities by staying in Thailand too long and whoring with Soi 6 slagdogs,

Benbaaa, you are not only courageous, but correct.

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Originally Posted by Bugs

spend, spend, spend.

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No problem with this. It's the spend, spend, spend without the income to pay for it. There in lies the problem of government and it's citizens. This has got to change or we will all have to pay, pay pay.

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Originally Posted by Norton

we will all have to pay, pay pay.

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you are already, game over ;)

The enemy is Socialism.

The real problem has always been too much fucking credit to people who can't really afford to buy large cost items, but they just keeps on buying because he/she thinks they need it when they actually just want it. Most people blame someone else when it is their own fault. For example, the stupid people who bought those Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARM) without understanding the loan and then when it reset cried like there was no tomorrow. Most of these people were sheep and in over their heads from the beginning and to top it off didn't have to put down a 20% deposit. Too much credit will always separate the men from the boys because in order to benefit from it you have to understand some economics and most people don't have a clue.

Why are Republicans always bitching about gun control, abortion, gay marriage, and lower taxes? Is that the best you can do?

News flash....if the price of everything goes up as it did when that dipshit Bush was in office you end up paying higher taxes on everything you buy. This is the same as raising taxes. Bailing out banks and the automotive industry is socialism which Republicans are so afraid of. Isn't it funny how gas prices went up during the Bush years and now that Obama is in office they are almost right where they were when Bush took office? Oil companies had a field day raping us for the past eight years.

Who cares about gay marriage? I'm not gay and don't care of steve and adam have gay sex in their bedroom. All this whining because the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination unto the Lord and not all Americans are christian. I'm atheist.

If you don't care for abortion, don't have one. God kills and commanded his followers to kill children in the Old Testament. I'm for personal responsibility and really don't understand why I, as a man, can't take a pill to stop sperm production. Why do I have to trust a woman to use birth control? How many abortions would be unnecessary if men had the opportunity to take a pill and why the bloody hell isn't someone getting on this? Is it that difficult?

We like our guns in the United States and neither party is going to take them away from us.

Our political system is too polarized in the states. We need a powerful third party because most Americans fall between Republican and Democrat. Neither party wants that because they lose power.

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Originally Posted by Lynn

The real problem has always been too much fucking credit to people who can't really afford to buy large cost items, but they just keeps on buying because he/she thinks they need it when they actually just want it. Most people blame someone else when it is their own fault. For example, the stupid people who bought those Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARM) without understanding the loan and then when it reset cried like there was no tomorrow. Most of these people were sheep and in over their heads from the beginning and to top it off didn't have to put down a 20% deposit. Too much credit will always separate the men from the boys because in order to benefit from it you have to understand some economics and most people don't have a clue.

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Banks gave these adjustable rate mortgages to people promising they could refinance later to a fixed rate when they knew it wouldn't be that easy. How is an adjustable rate mortgage or adjustable rate anything a good idea. It never is. Might as well write a blank check and give it to them to fill out.

The real problem is that we Americans have been seduced to believe we need all these things to be complete. We are cows being milked of our tax dollars and from birth we are taught to be good spenders through advertising. We have to have the newest cell phone, big house no matter how much space is actually used, a suv we'll never take offroad, and largest tv we can't afford. Next week when the newest model comes out we'll be told by some musician or sports figure to buy it and we will obey.

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

We were told for years and years that communists were our enemy and that they wanted to destroy capitalism and bring our economies to their knees. Walls were built, fortunes squandered on missiles and armies on both sides, all to protect our way of life, our values, our freedoms and our jobs.

These days, communists are a bit passé and our freedoms and security, we are told, is threatened by Muslim extremists bent on blowing themselves up so that we might go to hell and they might enjoy 72 virgins for evermore.

But I don't buy it. The people who caused our economies to collapse aren't communists or Saudis. They are the leaders of our banks, stock markets and insurance companies, ably assisted by our politicians who either looked the other way as our money was stolen or who acted a cheerleaders for the plunder. Financial institutions took huge risks with our money. The pocketed the rewards and scarpered. They've left us and our children to pick up the tab. Every British family (apart from the captains of industry who trousered millions) is £40,000 worse off now than they were a year or two ago. We don't know how much worse it is going to get, but we don know it's going to get a lot worse.

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

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True. And the Rothschilds have a major hand in it, as they have over the last 300 years.

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

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Because they are us - just bigger and better and greedier. But not really different.

It all started way back when the world abandoned gold as the measure of wealth and swapped it for $US paper. The $US stopped being a currency and became a commodity which of course was in wide demand to replace gold. The Yanks got lazy and started to borrow heaps in $USs but with no way of ever paying it back in actual tangable goods.
Now someone has got to pick up the tab for all those bad debts and it wont be USA. They will just keep pumping out the paper money till it becomes virtually worthless and the rest of the world will wonder how the hell they are ever going to get back the real value of all those goods they sent off to USA on an IOU written in $US paper. The USA doesn't have too much to worry about as long as they can print money and the rest of the world keeps taking it, as its the rest of the world that will end up being saddled with the US debt in the long run.

When the $US crashes they will be back in production again as an export driven nation. Its been the greatest swindle the world has ever known.

Why do you think Obama, Bush and all their top economic advisers want to keep the bubble inflated and play it out to the final end game? The eventual crash of the $US is their objective. Its always been going to end this way since USA decided to take advantage of being able to create wealth at the printing press and live on debt rather than production.

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Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The enemy is Socialism.

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actually it's the future. There is no much difference anyway. In one case you get ass raped by private companies, in the other you get ass raped by the state.

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Originally Posted by taxexile

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

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Originally Posted by taxexile

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday. move on.

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So you're happy to adjust and move on when people steal your money, are you? Jeeze, I wished I lived next door to you, I could retire...

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you never had the money anyway , it was all an illusion.

brickies in birmingham driving range rovers and living in 500,000 pound houses , if that isnt an illusion then what is. bound to come crashing down sometime.

multi million bonuses for banking incompetents , its always been like that. they dont deserve shit but i cant do nothing about it.


nobody stole anything from me and i dont owe anybody anything , interest rates and exchange rates are changing all the time. adapt or go under.

wallow in anger at something you have no power to do anything about , or move on and enjoy your life , its up to you !!!

i'm turning thai , living in a bubble , dont care about the rest of you anymore.

go away , move on , leave me alone.

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Starting to understand.

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Originally Posted by nidhogg

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

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Because they are us - just bigger and better and greedier. But not really different.

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No, they aren't us. I watched a segment about Japan Airlines CEO last evening that was pretty interesting. He uses public transit to get to work, eats in the cafe with the employees, took a pay cut when he asked the employees to do so, and makes it a point to meet his coworkers. That's right...coworkers because that's what they are. We have a problem with these elite bastards thinking they have the right to the best of everything while their employees suffer. I remember working at America West Airlines and we have a good quarter so all of us got a bonus check. 50 dollars for me and the CEO, Doug Parker, got over one million. He gets in a bonus more than most of his coworkers will make in a lifetime and feels entitled to it. These bastards need to be hung up from the nearest tree. Who is to say that a CEO puts any more into his job than someone at the lowest levels of the business? Managers are keen on telling you how important teamwork is, but they aren't willing to share the wealth. They cut our benefits to show profit to line their pockets while we hope we can put our children through school. They ship your job overseas or hire an illegal immigrant to do it so they can show productivity and savings while you can't pay medical bills. The problem is the sense of entitlement without a sense of right or responsibility to those around you.

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Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The enemy is Socialism.

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The enemy is the man in the mirror.:mid:

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Originally Posted by mordred

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Originally Posted by nidhogg

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Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

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Because they are us - just bigger and better and greedier. But not really different.

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No, they aren't us.

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Really? lets see what you said:

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Originally Posted by mordred

I remember working at America West Airlines and we have a good quarter so all of us got a bonus check. 50 dollars for me and the CEO, Doug Parker, got over one million.

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So, you were both paid for the job you did, but because the company did well you got a bonus. You are only arguing that his share was bigger than yours! If you had said - we were paid already for the job and the money should have been invested in the company - you may have had a point. But you also think you are entitled to a bonus for a job you had already been paid to do, but resent that he got more.

Which is exactly what I said. bigger, better and greedier. Not different.

No, I resent that Mr Parker feels he deserves more unlike the CEO of JAL that I spoke of. He sounds like a guy I could respect because he doesn't show the same signs of entitlement. Mr Parker could buy a house, put his children through college, and still have a nice bit in savings on his bonus check while I could maybe buy a tank of gas. How is that fairness if we're all so important in our positions within the company?

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Originally Posted by mordred

No, I resent that Mr Parker feels he deserves more unlike the CEO of JAL that I spoke of. He sounds like a guy I could respect because he doesn't show the same signs of entitlement. Mr Parker could buy a house, put his children through college, and still have a nice bit in savings on his bonus check while I could maybe buy a tank of gas. How is that fairness if we're all so important in our positions within the company?

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You are not getting it are you? You are still arguing about the fact that he got more than you!

You agree with the system that gives money to people (bonuses) for a job they were already paid for, but are peeved at how the cake was split.

He did it better than you - he was greedier than you. My original point.

I'm getting it and it isn't about more or less. I've been talking all along about a sense of entitlement and right and responsibility to those around you.