Problems with Retirement Visa and Work permit

:porlao:Has anyone else had problems lately with a work Permit? As I understood from Thai Visa I should have had no problems applying for a work permit using a non imm. O visa ( retirement)
At Chonburi when I applied yesterday I was informed that “This type of visa may be issued to applicants aged 50 years and over who wish to stay in Thailand for a period of not exceeding 1 year without the intention of working.
Holder of this type of visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year. Employment of any kind is strictly prohibited”
I was also informed that acc to Section 51 of Workers Alien Act 2551 any alien engaging in the work without permission shall be subject to an imprisonment of not exceeding 5 years or a fine from 2000 bt to 100000 bt. if I work illegally.
That “Foreigners who wish to work, conduct business or undertake investment activities in Thailand must apply for a Non-Immigrant Visa at the Royal Thai Embassies or Royal Thai Consulates-General. Various categories of the Non-Immigrant Visa are currently provided to meet the needs and qualifications of individual business persons. These include business visa Category “B”. Holder of this type of visa wishing to work in Thailand must be granted a work permit before starting work.
The visa fee is 2,000 Baht for single-entry with three-month validity and 5,000 Baht for multiple entries with one-year validity.
It is recommended that the applicant should apply for visa at the Thai Embassy/ Consulate in the country where he/she has the residence
I was also informed that the charges were going up considerably:porlao:

B is for business
O is for other
You want to work get a B
simple

By rights you should be able to get a work permit based on your non imm O visa, maybe the labour dept in Chonburi don't know this though, maybe an idea to change it to a B visa in Bangkok then reapply for your work permit in Chonburi.

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Originally Posted by cleddeau

As I understood from Thai Visa I should have had no problems applying for a work permit using a non imm. O visa ( retirement)

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The information you received on Thai Visa is incorrect.

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Originally Posted by cleddeau

Various categories of the Non-Immigrant Visa are currently provided to meet the needs and qualifications of individual business persons. These include business visa Category “B”. Holder of this type of visa wishing to work in Thailand must be granted a work permit before starting work.

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This is correct.

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Originally Posted by dirtydog

maybe an idea to change it to a B visa in Bangkok then reapply for your work permit in Chonburi.

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This I would check out. If you can convert you will need some additional documentation however. The "B" visa is required to get a work permit.

Dirty Dog -- Yes you could previously get on a retirement visa. I know peopel who have done that but they said that the new regulations have just come in also Pattaya Immigration says that I will have to go out of the country to change my visa to a Business visa

Both retirement visa and retirement extension are for retirement only, the rules do not permit you to work.

You should be able to change from O to B in Bangkok.
I don't think any other immigration office can do it.

Here is what the Thai Embassy in Singapore requires. This the same in any Thai Embassy as far as I know. If Thai Immigration in Bangkok will allow you to apply, they will need the same documentation.



Non-Immigrant Visa-B
Required documents are:

1. One completed and signed visa application form
2. One recent passport-sized photograph (3.5 x 4.5cm)
3. Passport (valid for no less than 6 months)
4. Invitation letter from a company in Thailand (Original)
   (The letter must be typed in the company’s letter head and signed by authorized person)
   1. Company’s registration documents in Thailand
   2. list of shareholders
   3. business registration and business license (including capital)
   4. company profile
   5. details of business operation
   6. list of foreign worker stating names, nationalities and positions
   7. map indicating the location of the company
   8. Balance sheet, statement of Income Tax and Business Tax (Por Ngor Dor 50 and Por Ngor 30) of the latest year
   9. Alien income tax return (Por Ngor 91)
   10. Valued added Tax registration (Por Ngor Dor 20), etc
       (Copies of company documents must be signed by authorized person and affixed the company seal)
5. Recommendation letter from a company in Singapore (Original in the company’s letter head)
6. Airline ticket or confirmation slip with flight number and date of entry/exit.
7. Copy of Work Permit issued by the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare (only in case the applicant has previously worked in the Kingdom)
8. Financial evidence in case that the person applicant is doing his/her business
9. Application fee:
   1. $85 for Single enty (Cash only in Singapore Dollars)
   2. $220 for Multiple Entries valid for One Year

http://www.thaiembassy.sg/immigrantB_visa.html

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Originally Posted by Norton

The information you received on Thai Visa is incorrect.

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I disagree

Thank you all for your help and advice
As you can see I havn't posted very much on this Forum although I have read it a lot. I hope to post more in the future as everyone has been very helpful and not treated me as if I had been stupid -- that has been suggested to me elsewhere Thank you all.

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Originally Posted by Thetyim

I disagree

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Are you at it again.:)

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Originally Posted by cleddeau

As I understood from Thai Visa I should have had no problems applying for a work permit using a non imm. O visa ( retirement)

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You must then agree with this?

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Originally Posted by Thetyim

Both retirement visa and retirement extension are for retirement only, the rules do not permit you to work.

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I'm confused!:confused:

^
Shit, sorry Norton, I read your post as saying "correct"
My apologies, I am suffering from eye strain because of a dodgy monitor and of course old age again.

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Originally Posted by Thetyim

My apologies, I am suffering from eye strain because of excessive wanking.

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:bunny3:

The confusion likely stems from that not all Non-Immigrant O visas are created equal.

A Non-Immigrant O based on retirement does NOT make you eligible to apply for a work permit.

A Non-Immigrant O based on marriage DOES make you eligible to apply for a work permit.

So Frankenstein if I change my retirement visa for a marriage visa I could get a work permit -- Why did they not tell me they say my marriage certificate?

Yes, that should be possible.

Although I am not sure whether the visa can be changed in-country, or if you would need to leave, cancel your retirement visa and apply for a new non-immigrant O based on marriage at an embassy abroad.

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Originally Posted by Thetyim

^
Shit, sorry Norton, I read your post as saying "correct"
My apologies, I am suffering from eye strain because of a dodgy monitor and of course old age again.

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it was correct that he said incorrect, so the post was correct and you were incorrect to attempt to correct him

The confusion between a visa and an extension to stay are causing the problems. If the OP is staying on a 1 year’s extension of a Non Imm "O" visa for reasons of retirement or has entered on an O-A visa and has a 1 year permitted to stay stamp, he cannot get a work permit.
If he has entered on a Non-Imm "O" visa and is staying a 90 day entry stamp, he can have that converted to a "B" visa and get a work permit and then a 1 year extension based on the work permit.
Extensions are based on some reason to stay, a work permit, retirement, or marriage. Reason to stay (Work permit, etc) come first, then the extensions, not the other way around.
TH

My personal experience:

I moved to Thailand in 2005 to take up employment with a Thai law firm.
I obtained a Non B visa from the Thai consulate in Birmingham assisted by the papers that my future employers sent me.

My work permit was obtained from Surathani Province shortly after my arrival.

After starting work on Koh Samui after doing 1 visa run to Malaysia after 90 days my boss suggested I get a retirement extension as I had the required 800k in my bank.

This was done and the work permit was renewed without problem.

When I left the law firm however in August 2007 to join my current employers, I was unable to get a new work permit based on the retirement extension which I had to forfeit and go to Vientienne to get a new Non B armed with the job offer papers from the new employer.

When I did that the new work permit was issued.

Hope this helps.

So if you want to start a business, or if you have a freelance permit ( has anyone ever gotten one? ) What visa ?
It's like a chicken or egg ? I need a job to get a work visa, but I need a visa to get a job?

Holy Shit! Anyone would think the Thai's did not like Farangs! :mid:

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Originally Posted by KAPPA

So if you want to start a business, or if you have a freelance permit ( has anyone ever gotten one? ) What visa ?
It's like a chicken or egg ? I need a job to get a work visa, but I need a visa to get a job?

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If you're planning to go to Thailand in order to work or opening a business, you better take care of a non-immigrant 'B' - one year - multiple entry visa.
One of the requirements for this visa, is a letter of a future employer stating that you will work for him OR a letter of a lawyer that you're about to start a business. IF you're able to show a work-permit, then use that.
Of course, a labor contract will do too.

As I recently found out the process of obtaining a retirement visa after working in Thailand on a type B visa is not the breeze I thought it was going to be. In order to obtain the retirement visa one may only apply 7 days before the actual retirement date. The existing visa is nullified and the new process of approval begins then. Also, several documents must be provided by my company to Thai Immigration in addition to the normal proof of income requirements etc. I only found all this out by making a trip out to the Thai Immigration offices in Bangkok.

The continued assertion that you can't get a work permit whilst on a yearly extension of stay based on "retirement" is totally hog-wash!

I know more than a few people here in Bangkok & scattered around the country who are on yearly extensions of stay based on 'retirement' and yet hold valid work permits and work.

I dunno why someone would ask Thai Immigrations about getting a work permit, seeing as those are handled by the Ministry of Labor (กระทรวงแรงงาน) NOT Thai Immigrations (สำนักงานตรวจคนเข้าเมือง)..

Asking immigrations about what visa you need or don't need to hold a work permit is sure to get a totally b/s knee-jerk answer. There's nothing stamped in your passport which tells Immigrations you hold a work permit, nor are the Ministry of Labors data bases tied into Immigrations either (at least not at this point in time).

If you've spent any time here interacting w/these people you know asking a question which they don't know the answer to is unlikely to yield fruitful results. Rather than saying to you, "Hmm, that's a good question. I don't know the answer, let me go ask someone who does.." What you'll get from the thai you ask is their old fall back stand-by answer; "Cannot!".

Please remember that what we foreigners call a "retirement visa" doesn't even have the Thai word for retire (เกษียณ) in the Immigrations regulations!
In fact the heading that most "retirees" fall under says this; กรณีใช้ชีวิตในบั้นปลาย ให้อนุญาตครั้งละไม่เกิน ๑ ปี. Roughly; "in the instance of living out the end of your life, permission to stay allowed not more than 1 year at a time"

Now that some half-wit at Immigrations made up a stamp with the English word "retirement" which they use to stamp the type of extension you have doesn't mean anything. It's the same thing as that "Employment prohibited" stamp which they sometimes use. All that means is with just an extension of stay you can't work, you hafta apply for a work permit.

Almost every university in this country has foreigners who work there and who hold work permits while on extensions of stay based on "retirement". There are a LOT of them in Chiang Mai for sure, maybe more than at the unis here in Bangkok..

I'd wager it's more the company you are thinking of working for doesn't know how to do it or the company you are using to facilitate the work permit doesn't know that it can be done.

There is no such animal as a "freelance" work permit, although you can have several companies listed in the book. One company must meet what ever the wage requirements based on nationality and meet your tax liability as your primary employer in the eyes of the MOL, the rest are just other places you work too. I know a foreigner here who has 5 or 6 companies listed in his work permit book. You do hafta get a letter from your primary employer giving permission or stating they know you are also working somewhere else, but you can have a lot of companies listed on it, that's why a work permit is in the form of a booklet and not just a sheet of paper.

I'd almost bet dollars to durian, that the problem the poster "racefan" had; who related they held a work permit whilst on an extension of stay based on 'retirement' until they switched jobs, was the new company didn't know HOW to do it, or they thought a Non-B was the only type he could have to carry a work permit.

I've heard stories of people switching from extensions based on retirement to those of being married to a Thai national, just so that the company they work for could get them the work permit..

There is NOTHING written in the MOL's regulations about work permits which says an extension of stay based on "living out the end of your life" prohibits the holding of a work permit.. At least nothing in all the pages and pages of regs I've read. It can be done, and believe me it most definitely is done routinely...

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Originally Posted by toddaniels

The continued assertion that you can't get a work permit whilst on a yearly extension of stay based on "retirement" is totally hog-wash!

Please remember that what we foreigners call a "retirement visa" doesn't even have the Thai word for retire (เกษียณ) in the Immigrations regulations!
In fact the heading that most "retirees" fall under says this; กรณีใช้ชีวิตในบั้นปลาย ให้อนุญาตครั้งละไม่เกิน ๑ ปี. Roughly; "in the instance of living out the end of your life, permission to stay allowed not more than 1 year at a time"

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Here again it might be worth pointing out there is no such thing as a "Retirement Visa"

What you get is an extension of your non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement with the 800K THB in an account in your name or proof of that sum coming in throughout the preceding 9 months (2 months for the first time application) before showing up at your local Immigration Office.

I just this week got my retirement extension having going through the process of canceling my visa obtained for work.
I should add that there is an urban myth circulating that somehow Americans get a free pass concerning their income as stated on the affidavit obtained through the US embassy. I know a few guys who have just put down an imaginary sum on the form and did not have to produce bank statements and got their visas. This is not a general rule. Along with the affidavit I had to produce an income letter from US Social Security and current bank statements.

Humbert just clean up a bit next time. It used to happen to me at US Immigration, a shave, and a haircut are worth more than two bits. :)


https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2013/11/4028.jpg

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Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Here again it might be worth pointing out there is no such thing as a "Retirement Visa"

What you get is an extension of your non-immigrant O Visa based on retirement with the 800K THB in an account in your name or proof of that sum coming in throughout the preceding 9 months (2 months for the first time application) before showing up at your local Immigration Office.

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The poster known as Boon Mee is 100% correct...

There is NO such animal as what foreigners call a "retirement visa".

The terminology retirement visa has been used so long, that even the Immigrations officers use the engrish words "lee-ti-ment weesa", lol....

It is indeed a yearly extension of stay based on "living out the end of your life"....

^Even though the stamp reads retirement. I think the commonly used terminology can be forgiven even by the most pendantic.

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Originally Posted by aging one

Humbert just clean up a bit next time. It used to happen to me at US Immigration

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US Immigration? What happened?