Future Construction in Isaan

Hello all,

As I'm new here let me introduce myself. I'm 34 year old french guy who's been living happily, and recently married, with a thai
girl for 4 years.
I've been reading this forum for months with the idea to get some precious experiences and advices that would be useful when my
turn would come to build something in Thailand for myself or my wife's family.

The in-laws are living near Loei in a very basic house (concrete base + wood) and as my wife and our little boy will go there
2/3 times a year for some holidays until we have our own house, I'd like something a bit more comfortable for them (with a decent bathroom, hot water,
real toilets and so on).

This first construction will also be used as a dry-run in preparation to the building for our own retirement/holiday house that will happen in 4-5 years from now.

Before I enter into more details about the house itself I think there are a few things that are worth mentioning:

1.

First of all, before we can build the new house on the piece of land they currently have (and share with the uncle), it will be
necessary to move the 2 wooden houses that are on it.
The land plot is more or less rectangle but 1/4 of it is allocated to the uncle's house (and no there's no way to convince them to kick him out, I tried already).
It looks like this:

...............................
. ____________________________.
. ____________________________.
. _______________IN-LAWS PLOT_.
. ____________________________.
................______________.
. Uncle's Plot .______________.
. (House)_____ . (House) _____.
._____________ ._____________ .
.______________._____________ .
...............................

Road
...............................

And we'd like it to become this so the new house can be built at the front of the land plot:

...............................
._____________ ._____________ .
. Uncle's Plot .______________.
. (House) _____. (Old House)_ .
. _____________._____________ .
................_____________ .
.____________________________ .
. ____________________________.
. ________________(New House) .
. ____________________________.
...............................

Road
...............................

The new house could be more in the center of the land but as I dont have the exact dimensions yet I've put where we have the more depth.
Total size of the plot is about 1200 square meters but I dont have all the details.

2. We'd like to have a perimeter wall all around the land. Maybe not made of concrete but anything that will allow us to actually
put more dirt/soil on the ground in order to level it up which leads me to the point 3.

3. Add more dirt to level up the ground.

The first quotations received are stating about 10000 THB to move each of the houses and 20000 THB for the dirt trucks.
I have no quotation yet concerning the perimeter wall.


Now let's come to the house that we are planning to build.
As I'm a complete dummy in this area, I opted for one of the Thai government pre-approved house plans that another forum member
mentioned in another thread.

The fully detailed plans can be found here:
Edit: cant post link yet so...

House model number 9 (1 storey, 3 bedrooms and about 125 square meters).

A quotation has been requested to a local builder and he stated about 225 000 THB for the labor, between 700 000 and 800 000 THB for standard quality material and up to 1 million THB for better quality material.


The plan is to start the actual building around February 2009 knowing that the prerequisites should be completed between October 2008 and February 2009.


Any ideas, comments, builder recommendations or even alternatives are very welcome.




Regards,

Johan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

First of all, before we can build the new house on the piece of land they currently have (and share with the uncle)

---

Well sharing is nice but I would recommend you get your own piece of land first.
That will belong to your wife and in case something happens to your wife, to your son.
At least you have better control (if only a bit better).
I mean if you want to make sure (or at least "more sure") the land (and the house on it) won't be sold (or "lost") without you knowing about it.

Hello Bluecat,

That's indeed something we considered but finding a good piece of land in "center" of the village is not so easy and the prices have sored recently.

Just to explain a bit more, the in-laws acquired/will acquire the remaining 25% of the land from the uncle and he's only allowed to stay on the land because he's so poor that he has no other choice but in the books the in-laws are fully owner of the land.

I should also mention that I don't wish to use that land or the house for my own use in the future as it's too far from everything anyway.
The goal is really to give those people a better home and somewhere decent for my own family to stay when they visit them.

Not having full control on it is not really an issue although I think the house will be build under my wife's name (I think it's possible) just to be on the safe side.



R.

Johan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

and as my wife and our little boy will go there
2/3 times a year for some holidays until we have our own house, I'd like something a bit more comfortable for them

---

wouldn't bother.

your wife is more than used to those living conditions and it will be like a camping holiday for the little one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

Not having full control on it is not really an issue although I think the house will be build under my wife's name (I think it's possible) just to be on the safe side.

---

You can not own a house, you own the land on which the house is.
And I agree with CMN, I would not bother much if I was going there only a few times a year.
Now, if you want to improve their living conditions, you can always "upgrade" their houses.
For more than 1 million you're considering spending, you'll make their houses a very nice place to stay in.
Won't be your own, but well, same for the one you intend to build...

Well I stayed in their current house for one week and trust me the best way to upgrade it is to pull it down and build a new one :)

Moreover my wife _really_ wants to build a new house for her parents so the decision to build or not is irrevocable :-)


Anyway buying a new piece of land might be a better alternative in the end but it seems difficult to find a nice piece of land in the 200 000 THB range (so they say...).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

Well I stayed in their current house for one week and trust me the best way to upgrade it is to pull it down and build a new one :)

Moreover my wife _really_ wants to build a new house for her parents so the decision to build or not is irrevocable :-)

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In that case, I'll comment only on the prices.
With 200,000 baht, a friend of mine bought a few rais 40 kms from Khon Kaen and build a very big house on it for about 1 million Baht last year.
But building prices are escalating fast with the steel price having doubled the past few months...

How old are the parents and the uncle? Are they currently working? I would look to involve them in the building. Their expectations might not be too great when they have to work also. My dad is pushing 70 and is still fine with manual labor.

They are probably not too fussed about western style bathrooms etc. So it's important to decide if you're building it for them or for yourself (who will only be there a few days a year.

We fixed up the place below for less than 40K in materials. This includes a bit of electrical work, nice bedroom, septic tank and 'bathroom' (non-flush toilet and large bucket for shower). We spoke to local builders who clearly wanted to rip us off. The place is no palace, but we only want it for a couple of years while we save for a nicer place on a different part of the block.

It was also a learning experience where we could make mistakes without it costing us heaps.
BEFORE
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

AFTER
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gifI would suggest trying to reuse some timber and use the old slab, this will save you a fair bit.

^ Fack thats in the Jungle alright.
As with others have said would not bother. My inlaws live in a house ok by their standards. I just check in to the Sofitel Khon Kaen. And drive to the village. Works out way better. I mean who want to sleep with the inlaws. Not me.

I already done it. No harm done. It safe Ant. Please proceed. Let us know how fast you managed to run......

Smithson,
The parents are around 50 and they are farmers. I know they've also worked as labourers on some construction projects in the south but I would like to avoid involving them.

After further thinking I decided to go for a new piece of land as moving the houses and so on would probably lead to problems. Plus, with a new piece of land everything is under the name of my wife from the beginning.

The expectations of the in-laws are quite low but I would like to do something usable by them but also by us. Even though I will only spend a few days a year in the house, my wife will spend 2-3 months a year in it with our little one(s) so I would like the same kind of comfort for them as we have here.

In the end the total budget is only the price of a small new car here so if we can stick to it I have no problem spending that amount of money.

Btw, Nice quick fix that you've done and it's good to know that we could also improve their current house which is similar but with one storey and for less than 100k THB.


I'll try to post the link to the detailed plans after this post as I should have reached the 5 -post limit by then.

Travelmate,

I know what others have suggested but as I already replied the question is not to build or not but how to do it without wasting too much money.

Just one last piece of advice. Whatever you decide to build, make sure there's a good outside/undercover area. Thais usually spend most daylight hours outside and with most modern Thai houses the only shaded area is the carport. You'll also save by not having to put so many walls. Good idea to separate the kitchen from the house a little, keeps things cooler and less smelly.

Yep that's what I noticed in all the house plans I could find so far that there's no outside covered area although people living in the village are spending most of their freetime outside their house.

I'll ask the builder a quotation for that too, thanks for the idea.

Concerning the outdoor kitchen that's a good idea too but this would require changing the plans a bit more; this has to be discussed with the builder...

In the meantime I received some more details. So the new piece of land will be 20m (width) x 40m and we could get it for 185 000 THB. It's located along the main road and water/electricty is already available to neighbors.

There will be about 30 trucks of dirt added for 400 THB each.

One thing we'd like to do is to build a perimeter wall but I dont know yet how high or how much it will cost. If anyone has some experience on that, feedback is welcome.
My guess is that a 1-meter perimeter wall would be enough.


I'll post the link to the house plans in my next post.

Here are the links to the detailed plans and perspectives:

http://www.dpt.go.th/workinfo/house_...del/no09md.zip
http://www.dpt.go.th/workinfo/house_...ctive/no09.zip
http://www.dpt.go.th/workinfo/house_.../sub/sub09.zip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

Here are the links to the detailed plans and perspectives:

http://www.dpt.go.th/workinfo/house_...del/no09md.zip
http://www.dpt.go.th/workinfo/house_...ctive/no09.zip
http://www.dpt.go.th/workinfo/house_.../sub/sub09.zip

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The sportscar in the driveway shows why these houses are so popular in Thailand. It's all about status, a house like this is much more suited to Europe than the tropics. Those window on the stairs will create a 'green house effect', making upstairs unbearable thru the day. The concrete will absorb heat, releasing it at night.

The place will be an oven. If they aren't installing air con, they will want it later. They will have huge elec bills for ever.

Sorry to be critical, but chances are you will pay for an expensive house and your in laws still won't have a shaded place to sit under.

I have no problem with the criticism as it's the reason why I'm posting here.

I'm just a bit surprised because those house plans coming from the Thai government I was expecting that they were designed in a way that is suitable for the thai weather and conditions.

We are still in a very early stage of the building process and nothing has been signed so it's not too late to go for an alternative house provided that I can find something better.

Would anyone happen to have some alternative house plans for a 3-bedroom house that I could give a look at?

Feedback on the cost of building the perimeter wall is still welcome :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

I have no problem with the criticism as it's the reason why I'm posting here.

I'm just a bit surprised because those house plans coming from the Thai government I was expecting that they were designed in a way that is suitable for the thai weather and conditions.

We are still in a very early stage of the building process and nothing has been signed so it's not too late to go for an alternative house provided that I can find something better.

Would anyone happen to have some alternative house plans for a 3-bedroom house that I could give a look at?

---

Do you have the link to the page with those plans? I've seen it before but don't have it. I think there are better plans on the page, but a house should be designed to fit the block, with consideration to where the sun rises and sets, prevailing wind etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

Feedback on the cost of building the perimeter wall is still welcome :)

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I don't know how much, but it's not cheap. A 1 meter high wall isn't going to keep much out, so I would wonder whether it's worthwhile. What about a decent wire fence?

You can find all the plans on a thai website but it's only in thai (just click any number for the details):

Untitled Document

I also found them on this website:

Living in Asia

I'm waiting for the land purchase to be finalized so we'll have the title and a thai government employee is supposed to come onsite for a survey so we'll know exactly how is the land. Based on that we'll start thinking on how to position the house and looking at some alternatives as long as the budget doesnt go beyond 1 million all included (except land).


It also seems that a wall will be too expensive so we'll probably go for a wire fence as you mentioned.

If I may add a few of my thoughts on this. Shade is important. If you have room, get some trees in. If you get them in now, they will grow like hell in the rainy season. Prevailing wind is also important. You really want the wind to blow in at one end of the house, and blow out of the other. A good choice of paint, on the outside wall, will also help with keeping some of the heat out.

We looked at dozens of designs for a Thai house, but didn't really find a decent one. We went with an Architect, mainly, for that reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeedbkk

I'm just a bit surprised because those house plans coming from the Thai government I was expecting that they were designed in a way that is suitable for the thai weather and conditions.

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Well.....

My suggestion? Better check out the land on which you want to build. Believe me this is a key factor.

Good luck, but at this stage I am a bit concerned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loombucket

If I may add a few of my thoughts on this. Shade is important. If you have room, get some trees in. If you get them in now, they will grow like hell in the rainy season. Prevailing wind is also important. You really want the wind to blow in at one end of the house, and blow out of the other. A good choice of paint, on the outside wall, will also help with keeping some of the heat out.We looked at dozens of designs for a Thai house, but didn't really find a decent one. We went with an Architect, mainly, for that reason.

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Good advice, there are plenty of fast growing trees and now is a good time to plant. Also consider bamboo, unless it's the running type it won't be invasive. Bamboo grows to it's full height in one year and if it falls down it won't destroy your house.

Wind is also important, but your in laws will probably want the front of the house facing the street. This is why taking a generic design can be a problem. I would consider a an architect.

Looking at the designs on those page the ones I feel would be most livable are those elevated of the ground. Numbers 27, 28, 29 and 30 would be great, but probably expensive. Number 5 is OK, but there's no shaded area outside the house.

Number two is extremely basic, but if you used your imagination you could build two houses like this and join them somehow. This would give you a large shaded balcony and plenty of area under the house, which I'm sure would be well used, especially if there was a bit of a kitchen/bbq.With a few windows and extras it could look similar to an old style Thai house, which are suited to the climate.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smithson

Also consider bamboo, unless it's the running type it won't be invasive. Bamboo grows to it's full height in one year and if it falls down it won't destroy your house.

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Having lived here in Thailand for a year or two, I would not suggest bamboo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hillbilly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smithson

Also consider bamboo, unless it's the running type it won't be invasive. Bamboo grows to it's full height in one year and if it falls down it won't destroy your house.

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Having lived here in Thailand for a year or two, I would not suggest bamboo.

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Why not? We have a heap growing, it looks nice and comes in handy for all sorts of things. It's the worlds fastest growing plant and consumes more carbon dioxide than anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hillbilly

My suggestion? Better check out the land on which you want to build. Believe me this is a key factor.

Good luck, but at this stage I am a bit concerned.

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No reason to be concerned, the purchasing of the land has not been finalized yet as the land survey can't be done this month. The in-laws are suspecting that the government employee is trying to get some 'under the counter' money to move his ass quicker.

Once this is done I'll finally see how the land plot looks like and then we will start thinking about the house.

The build process is not supposed to start before April 2009 at least so we have plenty of time to change our minds 10 times and finally go for something not too bad within allocated budget.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smithson

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loombucket

If I may add a few of my thoughts on this. Shade is important. If you have room, get some trees in. If you get them in now, they will grow like hell in the rainy season. Prevailing wind is also important. You really want the wind to blow in at one end of the house, and blow out of the other. A good choice of paint, on the outside wall, will also help with keeping some of the heat out.We looked at dozens of designs for a Thai house, but didn't really find a decent one. We went with an Architect, mainly, for that reason.

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Good advice, there are plenty of fast growing trees and now is a good time to plant. Also consider bamboo, unless it's the running type it won't be invasive. Bamboo grows to it's full height in one year and if it falls down it won't destroy your house.

Wind is also important, but your in laws will probably want the front of the house facing the street. This is why taking a generic design can be a problem. I would consider a an architect.

Looking at the designs on those page the ones I feel would be most livable are those elevated of the ground. Numbers 27, 28, 29 and 30 would be great, but probably expensive. Number 5 is OK, but there's no shaded area outside the house.

Number two is extremely basic, but if you used your imagination you could build two houses like this and join them somehow. This would give you a large shaded balcony and plenty of area under the house, which I'm sure would be well used, especially if there was a bit of a kitchen/bbq.With a few windows and extras it could look similar to an old style Thai house, which are suited to the climate.

Just my 2 cents worth.

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As I explained we don't own the land yet so we can't start with that kind of things but I keep the idea.

My wife indeed wants a house facing the road.

From what I understood this page is giving estimated prices for the different models:

â¤Ã§¡ÒÃẺºéÒ¹à¾×èÍ»ÃЪҪ¹ ( ÊÃØ»ÃÒ¤Ò¤èÍ¡èÍÊÃéÒ§â´ÂÊѧࢻ )

#5: 252 000 THB
#27: 1.9M THB
#28: 1.6M THB
#29: 1.36M THB
#30: 1.8M THB

What's the average price of an architect? It's a %age of the total price of the house I guess.

In my humble opinion the basics plan is flawed in that you are planning to live much too close to family. I have been living in Thailand for 9 years and the biggest mistake we (my wife agrees) have made is building our place so close to family that we can see their house from our place. This puts you in a position where you are exposed to every little issue that the family has and is far more involved than makes sense.

I watch Grandma and Grandpa raise kids left by wifes sisters when they are both too old to do so, even if thay had the rearing responsibilities down pat, which of course they do not. Of course the parents do not send money to help with schooling etc so we end up paying the bills to send kids to school etc.

If we were permitted to do it again we would locate a few km away from the rest of the family and still toy with the idea of finding someone that has made the same mistake as me with the thought of working out some kind of property swap and relocating.

The day to day involvement with every little issue is beyond the realm of reason.

So my advice is pure and simple go for anything that is a few km 50-100 away and help mama and papa building what they need so you feel ok about that and then focus on building your own place as you see fit.

I do wish you good luck as you mature your plans and hope that you do not make the same mistake that we made.

^ I agree. Living so close to the family isnt' all that much fun. When the wife and myself were staying at her parents house it was nothing but hassle, bills and trouble. The house is big enough for all of us but we had to get out. Too many expectations of paying for nearly everything and fixing the house up at the same time. We now live about 15k's away, much happier and less stressful.
Its a nice thought but when the reality of it kicks in it can turn sour, then you're in a house that you cant move from so easily.

You may be married to a Thai but you will never be part of the family no much money you sink into the family homes.
Best to let them sort how and where they want to live.

Your new wife probably wants to make big face by providing her parents with a flash new home. But they would probably be just as happy with some improvements for a fraction of the cost. Booting the uncle out so you can build a new house for the in-laws is a VERY bad idea. Its meddling with family business that you have no idea about and could go back a long way. Better to keep everyone happy and don't create enemies. Even though you are putting up the cash it doesn't give you the right to decide who lives where and in what kind of housing.

If you are only considering visiting a few times a year for a few weeks at a time to start with maybe consider an extension with a few western luxuries like sit down toilet?

It may be your money, but it ain't your land, it ain't your life and it ain't your family. Best to help them out a little for your wife's sake but don't try to take over their lives. And I do say that with respect as I know you are only trying to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda

You may be married to a Thai but you will never be part of the family

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Not true I am every bit a part of our family and have had no problems living with my Thai family for nearly 10 years in the same house. Sure I will never be Thai and never want to be, a few others I know are also a part of the family but I would say most farangs arent due to there inabilty to change or except anything new.

tropical building:long overhang roofs(1 to 1.5 m,4 sides)give you:1 no hot wall masstaking allnight cooling 2:walls bottom free of rain and red dirt SPLAASSHESS,
paint whiter,walls dryer,free space for hanging laundry&walk not in sticky mud!!!
WINTER:cold north wind:porch facing S-E:heat bath in sunrise,no chilling draught,
a little smoking fire a must.Anyhow family will put a straw mat where pleased +++
some coconut trunks or bamboo beds&l for "aa/naa maak's" traditional welcome.
The message space is stuffed,so so long...(what is the difference betwen quote
or not message in reply? Pone for paul

[quote=Smithson;701790
Why not? We have a heap growing, it looks nice and comes in handy for all sorts of things. It's the worlds fastest growing plant and consumes more carbon dioxide than anything else.[/quote]


Where does this information come from ?? Would like to know if bamboo is in fact a bigger consumer of carbon over the general train of thought...'trees' and any comparison between the size of the plant etc.

^ The info is all over the place, I'm sure at times it's exaggerated, but there is good reason for bamboo to be called such things as 'Gift of the Gods', 'Vegetable Steel' and 'Nature's Miracle Material'.

Just google 'bamboo facts' and you'll get hits like this:

... bamboo is the fastest growing plant on Earth. Some species have actually been measured to grow over 4 feet in 24 hours. A pole of bamboo can regenerate to its full mass in just six months! Bamboo can be continuously re-harvested every 3 years, without causing damage to the plant system and surrounding environment. During the time it takes to regenerate, the bamboo plant's root system stays intact so erosion is prevented. Continuous harvesting of this woody grass every 3-7 years, actually improves the overall health of the plant.

It is believed that if bamboo were planted on a mass basis it could completely reverse the effects of global warming in just 6 years, and provide a renewable source of food, building material, and erosion prevention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smithson

^ The info is all over the place, I'm sure at times it's exaggerated, but there is good reason for bamboo to be called such things as 'Gift of the Gods', 'Vegetable Steel' and 'Nature's Miracle Material'.

Just google 'bamboo facts' and you'll get hits like this:

... bamboo is the fastest growing plant on Earth. Some species have actually been measured to grow over 4 feet in 24 hours. A pole of bamboo can regenerate to its full mass in just six months! Bamboo can be continuously re-harvested every 3 years, without causing damage to the plant system and surrounding environment. During the time it takes to regenerate, the bamboo plant's root system stays intact so erosion is prevented. Continuous harvesting of this woody grass every 3-7 years, actually improves the overall health of the plant.

It is believed that if bamboo were planted on a mass basis it could completely reverse the effects of global warming in just 6 years, and provide a renewable source of food, building material, and erosion prevention.

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But bamboo can become a bit of a pest around the home if not harvested regularly. Bloody hard to get rid of too.

However, its been wiped out in many areas in Thailand close to population centers due to over harvesting for building material and food.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda

But bamboo can become a bit of a pest around the home if not harvested regularly. Bloody hard to get rid of too.

However, its been wiped out in many areas in Thailand close to population centers due to over harvesting for building material and food.

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It's the running varieties that are the invasive, because they send our runners all over the place.

The clumping varieties are what's commonly grown in Thailand, these are easily managed. As you mention, the problem is more of being wiped out thru over harvesting.

Just try and get rid of a big clump of bamboo when you don't want it there anymore. Its not as simple as cutting down a tree, believe me. I have a big clump in my back yard that is starting to get to an unmanageable size and it now grows faster than I can cut it back. But I am not in Thailand. I guess If I was in Thailand I could just call in the neighbours to take what they want and it would be gone in a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda

Just try and get rid of a big clump of bamboo when you don't want it there anymore. Its not as simple as cutting down a tree, believe me. I have a big clump in my back yard that is starting to get to an unmanageable size and it now grows faster than I can cut it back. But I am not in Thailand. I guess If I was in Thailand I could just call in the neighbours to take what they want and it would be gone in a while.

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We had to dig out some for a fence, so I know what you mean.

But the OP is in Thailand, so I'm sure they wouldn't have that problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda

Just try and get rid of a big clump of bamboo when you don't want it there anymore. Its not as simple as cutting down a tree, believe me. I have a big clump in my back yard that is starting to get to an unmanageable size and it now grows faster than I can cut it back. But I am not in Thailand. I guess If I was in Thailand I could just call in the neighbours to take what they want and it would be gone in a while.

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Don't Panda's consume "bamboo" as part of their daily diet? Just a thought.

[quote=SEA Traveler;712820]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Panda

Don't Panda's consume "bamboo" as part of their daily diet? Just a thought.

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I have tried it but there is only so much a Panda can bear. :)

When we built our house
we did it 1km outside of the village in the rice fields. The family has a compound in the village where everyone lives. staying there for a few nights was enough for me. very noisy, loudspeakers in the morning and afternoon, chickens, dogs, people just walking in and checking out what you are doing, burning plastic, i could go on. we had a company in Phrae build our house. it is wooden and off the ground maybe 2.5 meters. always cool. i found that i didnt spend much time in the house during the day, no a/c but really good ventalation not a lot of furniture. keep it simple.