I was trying to work out what age the Thai/American children are of the soldiers from the vietnam war are now.
Any ideas
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I was trying to work out what age the Thai/American children are of the soldiers from the vietnam war are now.
Any ideas
eh, about 30-40?
There are meant to be a "harkat" of luk krung swinging doors in Vietnam
Glad my father isn't a American GI, though he is in many hi-class Thai's eyes!!!
I think US cleared out of Saigon in 1969, so the last one was probably born in 1970.
Must have been later , mid seventies I'd say.
^'75 more like it.
^I agree
Told you this'd be a good thread Squirrel, better than all that scat anyway!
Vietnam was a great Jihad :)
Sorry have I got it wrong.
Did the US go in, about 68-69 then ?
American involvment in the Vietnam war finished in 1973 - Saigon was taken over in 1975.
Since the american build-up started in the 60's you've them being somewhere between 30-40.
But squirly - y the interest? wot r ur thoughts ?
the French were kicked out of Vietnam in the late 50's after the battle of Dien Bien Phu (spelling alert) - America moved in shortly after - dont know the exact year .... but i think they were certainly invovled by the mid 60's
Vietnam war was 65 to 75 I thought.
There must be a fair few French/Vietnamese lukers about ...
Here's one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_dog
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
I was wondering how old the children of all those hoes were now.
How many of them are famous and how many of them are still rice farmers ableit whiter ones
A lot of them are darker ones
Yes for ground troops but covert action started a lot earlierQuote:
Originally Posted by Fabian
My uncle went with his helicopter unit in 1961. They flew ARVN troops out on missions.
I hope you're not teaching math:Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsquirrel
US Yanks were in 'Nam from '65 to '73
So....a child born in 1965 would be 40/1 and in 1973 age 33/4.
In between this range.
"Why you ask two dogs f*cking?"
The french were in Vietnam since the late 19th century. This was probably the beginnig ot the "Vietnam War." The French, too weak to hold their own country, lost vietnam to the Japanese in '40-'41. THe Vietnamese ousted them (propabaly becasue the were n deep shit) in '45.
The Frenc then tried to reclaim Vietnam with very little success this is probably the reason for the communist sucesses in the North.
Before the french gave up the Ghost, the US was preparing to install the president/prime minister/puppet. The States actually acted as advisors fothe first en years or so, Eisenhower had us in there. keneddy excalated the "advisory" role and added some equipment and men. in '65 Johnson started sending boys in to "die for their country" sort of a half-assed atempt at a curbing the "red-menace." 'course he didin't wanna piss of hte red-menace and kick off WWIII so he limited the trioops abillity to wage war, more of a defensive line with no teeth. Similar to the Iraq situation (guess the Bush administration saw how well that limited commitment worked for us in the sixties). The last "cease fire" was agreed to in '73. The last Americans left Saigon in '75.
The french stayed a bit longer in Laos. The governement had no money to support the fellas there, this is were the tafficing and sale of opium & heroin to "support the war" started. Contrary to popular belief, the french were actively trafficing in opium and morphine base to support the war and not the CIA.
The French involment in heroin trafficing continued long after the french army quit. Well into the late sixties/early seventies.
So Mrs. Q, in case the math is too tough, there are "Vietnam War" Look Krueg in their 50s even early 60s. if you're after amerasian look krueng the majority are in their 40 - 30s. As the Vietnamese didn't take to the half-caste kids like Thais do; if they are rice farmers they got lucky. Be interesting to find out what happened to them.
Course, if you're wondering about them bangkok born look krueng born out of Vietnam combatant "R&R," they're probably among the many 30 - 40 something TV stars, and personalities you see nowadays.
A lot of food in there frankie. CIA got their foot into Vietnam as soon as the
french left, that's in the middle of the 50's. And they were of course the last to leave in 75..
CIA's drug trafficing in Thailand, Burma, Laos and Cambodia is well documented in senate hearings with ex CIA officers, and also verified if you read web pages from expat soldier pilots.Quote:
Originally Posted by friscofrankie
Many flights were carrying weapons up to the CIA recruited local army, thereafter bringing the harvest back to Bangkok or Saigon.
A help to the farmers so that they could spend time continue fighting instead of transporting their harvest.
CIA spent soo much more money on weapons and troops than what they were officially given.
They did the same in Bolivia and Nicaragua as well..
THE French started the trade in hte 50's when they lost funding. CIA did not need money from drugs, are you kidding me? Did drugs get moved to placate the generals that had developed a dependance on the trade? Fuckin' A. Not gonna argue a losing battle tring to say the fuckers were boy scouts or didn't assist the folks to keep 'em focused on the fight. The money spent may not have been "official" but the drug trade couldn't make scratch on the budget. Using the drug trade to fund their activities? That's just too fuckin' laughable.
No doubt that it happened that a few folks profited personally as well. For the trade to produce an income that make a dent in the bufget for the "Secret War" the CIA would have had to taken part in state-side distribution. There is good money to be sure, but hardly enough to fund any war. The profit from a 100 tons of base, lesse after the genrals got their share (to keep 'em interested in the fight) then the base was sold to the french, there might be enough profit to buy a bomb or two. The french players in teh trade continued to profit from it long after the french military officially left. In fact a few frenc generals stayed on and worked with the US "forces." I would think to continue to profit.
The generals made enough cash to line their own pockets and buy a few followers. The funding for Laos came from the very deep pocket of the covert community in the 60's & 70's.
I am not saying the CIA wasn't involved in a major enabling role, They hardly used/took any income for financing the "war" The french did, The french really kicked the trade into high gear long before the CIA showed up on the scene. The availabilitiy of heroin to end users was elevated in the 50's and early sixties creating a demand that is now met by the Columbians and Mexicans.
No this was a precedent set by the Franch and the CIA could not engaged the locals if they ever tried to stop it or refused to help. The CIA just continued to use the trade to attract the Laotian generals (War-Lords , cute little left-wing name huh?). To think the CIA needed the minor league money from the traffic I really can't get over how funny that is.
Quiet as it's kept I think given the opportunity I would lined my own damn pockets. Was a window of opportunity there. Re-read the senate hearings and listen in knowing many of the "veterans" testifying did, in fact, profit personally.
The covert comunity had unlimited funds during the 50s and 60s when it came to fight the "Red Menace."
Same situation in Nicaragua. These guy don;t need no light-weight narco money :). The folks selling the shit needed it to stay even remotely inerested.
Nicaraguans, "look man I really wanna fight but we need to sell out crop/product"
CIA, "OK, Man we can help you we got a plane goin' out"
Nicaraguans (to each other), "Stupid fcukin' Gringos, send some indians out with a gun or two let 'em die, we'll say we need more help, sned some peon ut to die, tell the CIA we need..."
There is much more profit in $3500 toilet seats than there ever was in coke or smack.
Frankie, I initially replied to your statement that the US / CIA was not involved in drug trafficing, which they were.
I do know that it was inherited from the French but it doesn't make CIA less guilty, especially since it seems to be their standard way of operating.
And I never intended to say that the whole Vietnam war was financed by drug money. There were a lot of operations in neighbouring countries though (and especially in the golden triangle) which were not officially US sanctioned or where yankees could not be involved due to political reasons.
Small army groups of some houndred up to thousand of man were locally recruited and at least partly financed using drug money. I'm sure you can get a lot of info about it up there since ChangMai was the center where one famous CIA-boss supervised it and also deep-pocketed him self.
Some interesting links that I saved a year ago when stumbling across this
part of the Asian history:
http://ciadrugs.homestead.com/files/...-triangle.html
http://www.flashpoints.net/ArticleArchiveIndex.html
http://www.sentienttimes.com/03/aug_...3/heroinT.html
http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org/mem.htm
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
I read this book back in 73-74. It explains just as you say the French military financed itself with the opium trade after their own government cutback on funding the war in SEA. It's one of the reasons Marseilles ended up as a major heroin import city for Europe. I showed the book to my uncle and he kind of chuckled. The book cited Vungtau as a major port for the export of dope. The Corsican mafia paid the VietCong to lay off the place so it wasn't rocketed or attacked. My uncle said the US military used the place as R&R for troops because it was "secure". R&R for troops in a major heroin/morphine export city.
uncle's first tour: On 11 December 1961 the United States aircraft carrier USNS Card docked in downtown Saigon with 82 U. S. Army H-21 helicopters and 400 men. The 57th Transportation Company (Light Helicopter) from Fort Lewis, Wash.., and the 8th Transportation Company (Light Helicopter) from Fort Bragg, N. C., had arrived in Southeast Asia.
I didn't intend my earlier post to say the CIA were lily white in the traffic either. The CIA are not the original dirty tricksters btu they sure are some dirty mother fuckers!Quote:
Originally Posted by lom
The locals that profitied certainly used he money as a recuitment tool. The Hmong were active inthe growing, transport and sales of opium and base. That the CIA had this free run of the joint due to the "Secret War" being "secret" gave room for way to many abuses.
Can't really blame them for allowing the trade; they woulda been beat before the fell of the plane. Think it coulda been handled differently? Sure, but then hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? 40 - 50 years later, we still condemn them. Tryin' to curb the traffic would have been political suicide. Gues they coulda bought all the shit and flushed it though. Woulda been similar payin' farmers to not grow crops, a very common approach in the States.
The Entire era is dotted with abuses and shady deals, know dudes that got a "one year and out" enlistment. All they had to do was that spend a year making "secret" raids on encampments in Cambodia, (workin' for the CIA) survive that and you got yer life back, in one year
Certainly a black time for the US and SEA. I rarely feel apologetic for the sins of my country, but when I see the shit them fuckin' ivy-league spooks left behind and the shit they pulled... Still got no use for them arrogant, WASPy, ivy league types, CIA or just plain ol' MBAs. Fuckin' hi-bred low-lifes far as i'm concerned.
Every country needs spooks The spooks of the early CIA were certainly some scummy fucks. The OSS was originally in SEA back then, an outgrowth of the miltary. When the civilian CIA took over; buncha sneaky college boys many lookin' for personal gain or a steppn' stone to politics, stepped up.
Think, though, we can blame the administration for their "don't ask don't tell" policy as well as a few individuals (in the CIA/private sector) there (Laos). These college boys coming from Business schools, blessed with Carte Blanche did pretty much as they pleased; built a very large business enterprise that lasted beyond the SEA fiasco; lined their own and their cronies goddam pockets.
To say that the CIA is responsible for for the opium traffic in SEA, as is generally touted by the uninformed, is naive. To argue that they are innocent bystanders would be even more so. Hard to take a non-partisan stand on the situation. Would say the Frenchies created a very bad situation and the CIA exacerbated and exploited that situation to their advantage; doesn't make 'em less culpable. Just hate to see 'em stand on the firing line alone.
Least the french left behind good coffee and bread :)