Seems a pretty effective way to get info w/o ripping out fingernails our having your head beat in with a telephone book.
What do you think ?
Printable View
Seems a pretty effective way to get info w/o ripping out fingernails our having your head beat in with a telephone book.
What do you think ?
Certainly beats getting blasted through the forehead with a tumbling 5.56 round, which was the likely alternative.
Well when the life or death of innocent people may be effected by the information the prisoner could divulge what are the alternatives ???
Ask the local vicar to have a little chat with him and appeal to his scence of fair play !
Or the Priest to ask him if he would like to come to confessional !!!!
I think Russian Roulet show him the single bullet put it in the chamber let him watch you spin it ask him the question , no answer pull the trigger
repeat the process untill he either answers or runs out of luck .
Of course it is torture.
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily
Probably none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky
The big problem with interrogation via torture is the validity of the information one receives. It is only obvious most will admit or say whatever they think the interrogator wants to hear just to have them stop!
Lot's of devil worshiping witches burned in Salem and heretics in Europe during the inquisition.
sheet, i thought this thread was about wakeboarding......
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2007/12/267.jpg
To me, torture connotes the ideas of maiming, disfigurement, permanent physical or emotional damage or excruciating pain, such as teeth pulling.
So, to me, NO, waterboarding is not torture. It is not life threatening. It leaves no permanent physical scars or recurring pains. True, it is emotionally a torture, but that doesn't count to me.
NO.
^ great point, by CT.
Also, if the information derived from waterboarding can prevent an attack the kills, maims, and disfigures innocent civilians, that this form of getting information (waterboarding) is justified, IMO.
But we need to make sure the appropriate people are candidates for it.
The method will be worthless then as soon as the victim learns that it will not cause him any harm..Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
^ EXACTLY! I was thinking that how easy it would be to make waterboarding obsolete if the grapevine carried the info in the ether that you won't die or be permanently damaged. It will be rendered useless. good post.
So if they only think they are going to die, it is ok?
You dont think that there may be some permanent emotional damage from waterboarding and being powerless to stop someone from doing it?Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
It is torture but whether it is justified or not, should be the real argument.
If it weren't torture, it would not be successful in gaining info.
added; But it would still be successful even if the people knew that they wouldn't die. It attacks our survival instincts and when we cant breathe it is terrifying.
^No, to me emotional torture is fair play. It's justified.
Well, you are agreeing with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
It is torture but the argument is 'Is it justified?'
I dont think any torture is justified.
And who will be the ones who decide that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkman
Besides, should we only apply torture (which is what this surely is) only when the prisoner is known to have crucial information that may save lives, or is simply a suspicion that he may have it sufficient to warrant torture? Or perhaps we should torture all prisoners, just in case....?
And when do we stop? How do we know he isn't still withholding crucial information after having been tortured for, say an hour, a day, or a week?
And, if we allow this practice, aren't we really becoming just as bad as the terrorists we are trying to fight? If we loose our moral superiority, on what grounds are we then claiming what is right and wrong?
Agree fully!Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteshiva
Yes, i agree with you. It's torture but justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily
You should all go back and watch the very old movie of Dustin Hoffman, the Marathon Man.
Now, that is REAL torture. Emotional torture designed to elicit information is not in the same category as life altering maiming, disfiguring, and recurring pain torture.
So electrical shocks and mock executions are also OK, then?Quote:
Originally Posted by chinthee
^Not sure about electrical shocks, I think they may be physically damaging. As far as mock executions...no problem.
^That is where we disagree, then.
By the rules of the two Geneva Conventions, I think the US could be tried for war crimes for particpating in this.
Throughout history, torture has often been used as a method of effecting political re-education. In the 21st century, torture is widely considered to be a violation of human rights, and discouraged by article 5 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. In times of war signatories of the Third Geneva Convention and Fourth Geneva Convention agree not to torture protected persons (POWs and enemy civilians) in armed conflicts.
yup...
and unjustified
Look at this scenario your just an innocent civilian in Afghanistan or Iraq all off a sudden you find your self in the hands of militants . What do you think your chances of not being tortured or brutally murderd are ?. Even though you know nothing regarding the military the war or anything else that they couldnt read in a newspaper for themselves .
If it were me I would start making my piece with God straight away because your chances are very close to nil .
That would make you reconsider all your nice views about oh no we cant torture them , and namby pamby ideas like that human rights etc !!!!!!!
Listening to Britney Spears at 110db was the real torture that broke KSM - waterboarding was just for the press...Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon MeeListening to Britney Spears at 110db was the real torture that broke KSM - waterboarding was just for the press...Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
Doubt the music drove him over the edge.
Kind of a funny discussion when the adversaries in question openly decapitate and film their prey, if only we had the fortitude to get our point across so unambiguously.
Slicing the head off at the neck is much more humane.
Part of the reason the enemies can be so brutal is they know the restrictions placed on their enemies. They're not hindered by these encumbrances.
They know enemy forces will not bomb mosques, so that's where they hide their weapons. Minarets make great sniping positions.
Waterboarding is emotional torture just like threatening to spank your child is emotional abuse. Don't confuse humiliation and torture.
Some say throwing an enemy out of a helo hovering at 3 feet is torture. (so what if the captive thought it was much more)
So what. Level the playing field. The extremists have no rules, why should we hobble ourselves?
[quote=Whiteshiva;473887]Quote:
Originally Posted by Milkman
Yes, this is my concern.Quote:
And who will be the ones who decide that?
OK,
What the heck is waterboarding (apart from a non-lethal form of torture practiced by Americans, as I've deduced from the thread)?
Signed,
Thicky von Thick-Thick.
So if they only think they are going to die, it is ok?
Answer :YES
You dont think that there may be some permanent emotional damage from waterboarding and being powerless to stop someone from doing it?
Answer: People that cut people's heads off and commit terrorist attacks already have emotional damage.
It is torture but whether it is justified or not, should be the real argument.
Answer: I think it is great. If it saved the life of one of your children by keeping them safe, then you would be for it too.
If it weren't torture, it would not be successful in gaining info.
Answer: Whatever it takes to get the job done. If they would just quit killing people and enjoy the wealth that their oil brings, then I would be happy....even paying more for gas.
added; But it would still be successful even if the people knew that they wouldn't die. It attacks our survival instincts and when we cant breathe it is terrifying.
Answer: They could tell what they know before going for a dunk in the water. They choose to keep quiet and have to endure the water boarding for their lack of cooperation. They are lucky I am not in charge. I would sink them to the bottom of the ocean with an anchor chained to them....after I got some info from them by water boarding them.
Yes it's torture, and the great leaders of this world should be tried for war crimes. Has anyone noticed the erosion of civil liberties since this current round of scum took over???
All in the name of the holy oil barrel.
^ Methinks that the Arabs made a barrel of oil holy........
Total horse hockey. So simplistic to blame every action on oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ban Saray
^
You should spread some reputation around before giving it to Chintee again.
this is the point that some here seem to have conveniently overlooked. one the guys waterboarded by the US a few years back said that there were imminent attacks at shopping malls, banks, nuclear power plants, apartment buildings, etc... and thousands of FBI and police were sent out....but he was just trying to stop the torture. he was lying to stop the torture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
america used to occupy the moral high ground....but no more.
and the military personnel who are actually fighting in iraq or afghanistan (interestingly enough, that includes exactly none of our resident proponents of waterboarding), will be on the receiving end of even more heinous torture.
and btw, a beheading is certainly more humane than dropping a cluster bomb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texpat
Quote:
Originally Posted by chitown
wow. it doesn't sound too bad at all, does it? so which one of your tough guys would like to volunteer for a session of waterboarding?
remember, it's just a dunk in the water. think of it as simply humiliation.
6^ And the moral high gound is flying planes into building in America, and blowing up things in the UK and Europe?? :confused:
Everyone of you that posts these sort of things would change your minds faster than a fart in awindstorm if your MOM, DAD, BROTHER, SISTER, WIFE or HUSBAND was killed by a terrorist.
I qoute Rambo when it comes to terrorists - You drew first blood........
The moral high ground just gets you killed faster.
Listen Ray Fairy - this tough guy did not do shit to be put into the position of being water boarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by raycarey
And while you are being such a pussy Ray, just remeber that it is guys like you that have put a pacifier in these murder's mouths that have caused us to be in the mess that we are in.
I bet you would give a rim job to one of those terrorists just before he cut your head off!
Can't be that bad if the whimpy US Special Forces do it to each other during training, can it?
Even the Air Force, the powder puff service, has pararescuemen and combat controllers that routinely pass out while being held under water during training. Of course medics are always on hand. These are guys that volunteer to have it done.
Imagine that, guys being waterboarded by choice.
duplicate post