The View, from China

The purpose of this thread is to present a Chinese perspective on things- but a 'reasonable' Chinese perspective. I'm about as interested in Chinese supremacists as I am in right wing bigots from the West.

Perhaps there are some who believe a Chinese (or Russian, or Iranian, etc etc) perspective should not be allowed, should not be read. To them, I can only quote Chomsky-


"If we don't believe in free expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."


"Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re really in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech for precisely the views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech."


China is poised to become the Worlds largest economy- like it or not. So I think it is both important and reasonable to at least give a reasonable airing of their perspective on things. You do not have to agree with it, obviously.

So, to kick off, following is a recent Editorial from Global Times. I doubt you will find the Chinese perspective in the New York Times. :)

What drives China-US game: Washington believes being poor is Chinese people’s fate



Former Australian prime minister Paul Keating recently said that China's "great problem" is that "it [China] is now a state as large as the United States, and with the potential of being much larger - an unforgivable sin for American triumphalists."

The former Australian head of state made such a statement when accusing the incumbent Australian government of wantonly leading Australia-China relations into a strategic dead end. He said that China was not forcibly incorporating countries into a "grand union" or exporting a universal ideology. Nor did China impose nuclear threats, said Keating. But he believed that, "China's rise is simply not in the American playbook - its very existence and at this scale is an affront to America's notion of itself as the exceptional state - the proselytizer of divine providence."

I have to say that Keating has a precise analysis of US' thinking. This also tells us that as long as China keeps its development momentum, the US will not "forgive" it whatsoever.

China is encountering strategic containment and suppression from the US at the current stage. I'd like to emphasize that no matter how it happened, it is the collective fate of the Chinese people. We must overcome it in a collective spirit.

Who pushed forward China's rise? Who provided the fundamental driving force of this trend? As far as I see, this is the dream of several generations with noble aspirations and the Communist Party of China united the Chinese people. The Chinese people as a whole eventually turned the dream into a historic trend.

In the past two or three decades, Chinese people became aware of their rights and their desire to pursue a better life was fully awakened. Almost all the Chinese people work hard to achieve these goals.

Now there are color TVs, refrigerators, and washing machines in almost every household in China. The country's GDP became the sixth largest in the world by 2000, surpassing Italy. Then the Chinese were able to afford private cars and houses with property rights. And in another decade, China's GDP surpassed Japan's to become the second largest economy in the world. Yet at that time, it was still far from the total GDP of the US.

The Chinese people then began to buy better cars, as well as improve the housing and environments of their neighborhoods, towns, and cities. Moreover, they started to strengthen ecological protection, develop tourism, gradually build a social welfare system, and digitize their life. As a result, China's GDP today is more than two-thirds of that of the US.

But are we, the Chinese, satisfied? Not at all. Modernization in our country needs to be refined continuously. The serious income disparity between regions and different groups needs to be replaced by common prosperity. Those who get rich first need to bring others along. The welfare system in China needs to be further improved so that the next generation must live better off than the previous one. Food needs to be safer. The difficulty of seeing a doctor needs to be fundamentally solved. Every citizen's retirement needs to be secured. Accidents during production should be further reduced. When we can take all these things up to another level, China's total GDP will surpass that of the US and become the world's No.1.

No one can stop the Chinese people from collectively pushing their country to become the world's top economy as history progresses. Even though the Chinese government certainly has not planned the timetable and roadmap to become the world's No.1, this is a "people's war." It will be as vast and mighty as a big river. It will be an unstoppable tide.

At a time when the traditional geopolitical mentality is far from receding, the Chinese have already started a national movement for common prosperity with speed and on a grand scale. Moreover, we have shown our strong ability to turn that pursuit into reality.

This is China's "unforgivable sin" to the US, as Keating put it. Yet China is simply bettering itself.

What can we do? Reason with the US and convince it to chill? Obviously, doing so is useless. The only way that can make the US "forgive" China is to stop developing. This means we will stay in the No.2 position forever. It means Chinese people will have to stop the effort to further improve their living standards. We are all deprived of the natural human rights to pursue a better life. Moreover, according to the law of social development, once we stop moving forward, chaos could emerge. If this were to happen, we could not maintain our current moderately prosperous way of life.

This is the nature of the China-US game. The truth is, even if China's GDP surpasses that of the US one day, our per capita wealth will be far less than that of the US, Europe and the entire Western world. But even so, Washington will not allow it. They believe that being poor is Chinese people's collective fate. The poverty in China is an indispensable prerequisite for the security of the US and the world.

That being said, playing the game and continuing this struggle has become the only choice for all Chinese people. As I often say, all Chinese are on the same boat in this struggle. We are not only responding to challenges for the future of our country, we are also fighting for the future for ourselves and our children. We must unite and use the powerful reality that will continue to form a force for the US to abandon its ambitions to crush China. This will force them to believe: Accepting the possibility that China, which has a population four times the US population, will exceed it in terms of total economic prowess. They must accept that coexisting with China peacefully will be their best choice.

What drives China-US game: Washington believes being poor is Chinese people’s fate - Global Times

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The purpose of this thread is to present a Chinese perspective on things- but a 'reasonable' Chinese perspective

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How do you get a "reasonable Chinese perspective" when everyone who has one is sent for a bit of "re-education"?

:rofl:

How do we get you to actually comment on the content of something, rather than trying to drag everything into the Doghouse? :chitown:

The U.S. hasn't been the best superpower like when the neocons took power, etc.

Though, I'd rather the U.S. be the world's superpower any day — rather than China.


Just ask people in Hong Kong who were promised "one country two systems" whether they have a choice about what has become of Hong Kong which went from the top of the list of free economies to the bottom in a short period of time.


This is just one example.


Hope the West puts China in its place.


To start with — make it pay up trillions of dollars of damage to the world for allowing the wuhan virus to infect the world: blocking flights from Wuhan to around China, but allowing international flights and hiding that it transmitted "person to person" until a case showed up in Thailand.

It's all he looks for - a stupid slanging match.

Even on sports threads, ffs.

What drives China-US game: Washington believes being poor is Chinese people’s fate - Global Times

From the CCP propoganda dept mouthpiece ffs and it reads like propoganda.

^ And that, my friends, is The View, from China.

When does an Op-Ed become propaganda? Is an alternative or contrary opinion Propaganda (but if that opinion agrees with mine, it isn't)? Is it therefore taboo to be expressed? Then you do not believe in Free Speech- but I do. I can disagree with opinions, vociferously- but I do not disagree with the Right to express them. In fact, I wholeheartedly support it.

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Originally Posted by sabang

How do we get you to actually comment on the content of something, rather than trying to drag everything into the Doghouse? :chitown:

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Usually, he would add much more, as we know him, this is his domain.

And he did not mention the new German Ambassador (54) who died suddenly within few days in China, no cause of death known. And just recently he was so helpful to Frau Merkel when she spoke with Joe (the Germans say "under 8 eyes talk") at her last visit in WH.

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Originally Posted by sabang

When does an Op-Ed become propaganda? Is an alternative or contrary opinion Propaganda? Is it therefore taboo to be expressed? Then you do not believe in Free Speech- but I do. I can disagree with opinions, vociferously- but I do not disagree with the Right to express them.

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go on then, sabang: debate the points i made above.

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Originally Posted by Samuel

To start with — make it pay up trillions of dollars of damage to the world for allowing the wuhan virus to infect the world:

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So how to force them when Joe ordered to investigate with 90 days, but all what they found was "inconclusive"...

Sabang is drunk again.

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Originally Posted by bsnub

Sabang is drunk again.

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Plagiarism!!! This comment you stole to your friend PH...

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go on then, sabang: debate the points i made above.

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I would rather debate 'The View, from China'. After all, that is the OP.

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Sabang is drunk again.

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No, he isn't. Not yet. But werkin' on it. :)



Still not one comment on the actual Editorial. We appear not to have much intellect left in TD, sadly. :chitown:



Ok, so here is a question:-


Do you believe the Chinese people should be poor? Is it a threat for them to pursue modernisation, and improved living standards?

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Originally Posted by sabang

I would rather debate 'The View, from China'. After all, that is the OP.

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I was responding to this:

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We must unite and use the powerful reality that will continue to form a force for the US to abandon its ambitions to crush China. This will force them to believe: Accepting the possibility that China, which has a population four times the US population, will exceed it in terms of total economic prowess.

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I disagree with the op-ed and think the U.S./west should limit Chin's rise.

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Originally Posted by bsnub

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Originally Posted by Samuel

The U.S. hasn't been the best superpower like when the neocons took power, etc.

Though, I'd rather the U.S. be the world's superpower any day — rather than China.


Just ask people in Hong Kong who were promised "one country two systems" whether they have a choice about what has become of Hong Kong which went from the top of the list of free economies to the bottom in a short period of time.


This is just one example.


Hope the West puts China in its place.


To start with — make it pay up trillions of dollars of damage to the world for allowing the wuhan virus to infect the world: blocking flights from Wuhan to around China, but allowing international flights and hiding that it transmitted "person to person" until a case showed up in Thailand.

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Fuck off dummy

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Go on then, BSnub, what do you disagree with in my post?

Don't be shy.

;-)

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Originally Posted by sabang

How do we get you to actually comment on the content of something, rather than trying to drag everything into the Doghouse? :chitown:

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I quoted your post.

How the fuck is that not commenting on the content of something you imbecile?

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Originally Posted by sabang

Do you believe the Chinese people should be poor? Is it a threat for them to pursue modernisation, and improved living standards?

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Do you even understand what a Straw Man is?

FFS.

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Originally Posted by sabang

When does an Op-Ed become propaganda?

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When it comes directly from a state-funded or state-controlled organisation.

Which essentially covers most of the horseshit our resident chinky sycophants post.

Mods?? Up to you.

'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood' is on commercial TV tonight, and appears to offer far better fodder than anything here right now. Sigh.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Mods?? Up to you.

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Mods, I have responded to sabang, but my posts haven't been posted.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Mods?? Up to you.

'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood' is on commercial TV tonight, and appears to offer far better fodder than anything here right now. Sigh.

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Let me explain it to you Manuel.

You post a piss poor propaganda piece that's straight out of the chinky playbook.

Now you want us to debate it? As if America has ever said or done anything of the kind?

This is what is meant by a "Straw Man".

Wanting to stop the chinkies raping the South China Sea and stealing everyone else's territory is "trying to crush us"?

Oh fucking get real.

What's next?

A Pravda piece on "Why America wants to steal Crimea from Russia"?

:rofl:

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Originally Posted by sabang

Mods?? Up to you.

'Once Upon a Time in Hollywood' is on commercial TV tonight, and appears to offer far better fodder than anything here right now. Sigh.

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If this thread ends up in the shitter it will be because it's shit.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Do you believe the Chinese people should be poor? Is it a threat for them to pursue modernisation, and improved living standards?

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Heck, no. I don’t think anyone thinks the Chinese people should be eternally poor. That is some bullshit from an editorial.

If I could watch Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I’d stop everything to see it!

It's finished now. Dontcha just love the ending? :) Mind you, it is quite entertaining visualizing 'arry soiling his nappies too. :rofl:


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Moving right along:-


How Washington lost its 20-year 'war on terror'


Can fascism take over the United States? This question was put to Huey P. Long, US senator, demagogue and governor of Louisiana, in the 1930s. "Sure it can!" he replied. "Only it'll be called anti-fascism."

Former US president George W. Bush responded to the Sept 11, 2001, terrorist attacks by declaring a "global war on terror". To Bush, it didn't matter who was targeting whom in the "war...". In the name of spreading "democracy" and free speech, he smothered what remained of democracy and free speech in his own country. And after 20 years of US military operations in Afghanistan, the results are all too clear in that country too.

Bush's "global war on terror", or GWOT, pronounced "Gee-What?", has resulted in the victory for terrorism around the world－aided and fostered at every turn by the Bush administration and those that succeeded it. Only they all claimed it as a victory against terrorism.

Bush invaded and occupied the oil rich country of Iraq in defiance of all international laws. Not a single grain of evidence linking Saddam Hussein to al-Qaida had ever been found, or has been since.

Bush then used the rout of the Taliban as an excuse for permanent US occupation of the country and installed puppet leaders in power who didn't enjoy even the slightest support of the Afghan people. The expressed wishes of the Afghan people presented in early 2002 through one of their traditional national tribal assemblies was arrogantly rejected by Bush, and then US vice-president Dick Cheney and secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld－arguably the most disastrous figure ever to hold that position.

Twenty years on, the outcome of the expenditure of more than $3 trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan (the equally unsuccessful "Gee-What?" cost trillions of dollars more) is clear: The Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria has been kept out of power in Iraq by the exertions and direct influence of Iran, not the US.

Qasem Solemani, Iranian major general and the Quds Force commander who played the foremost role in rolling back the IS group and its genocidal forces from 2014 to 2019, paid for his cooperation with the US with his life when previous US president Donald Trump approved his assassination following the urging of then national security advisor John Bolton, another architect and cheerleader of the Afghanistan and Iraq occupations.

As Edward Lozansky pointed out in his article in The Washington Times on Aug 31, according to the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs of Brown University, more than 801,000 people have died in the direct "war on terror" violence and its wider effects, more than 335,000 civilians have been killed as a result of those fighting, and 38 million people have become war refugees and displaced persons.

Those wars, Lozansky said, also cost the lives of 11,000 Americans, more than three times the number of those who died in the 9/11 attacks－which many say took place because of the complacency, laziness and sheer incompetence of the Bush administration. More than 53,000 more Americans have become amputees, brain-damaged, or were doomed to a premature death because of their injuries, not to mention other post-traumatic disorders.

In addition, the US destroyed the previously stable states of Iraq, Syria and Libya, unleashing in those countries unprecedented levels of anarchy, chaos and violence.

Over the past 20 years, the prophecy of Huey Long has come true: The last remnants of national free speech, and honest, open debate in the US have been snuffed out in the name of defending democracy and free speech－and wars fanning terrorism around the world, especially across the Middle East and the heart of Asia, have been unleashed all in the name of fighting terrorism.

The "final, now-never-to-be reversed" US evacuation from Afghanistan ends a strategic absurdity that should never have been attempted in the first place. It also marks an end to the concept of GWOT－that global war on a will-o'-the-wisp abstraction so loved by Bush, Rumsfeld and their neocon Pentagon "geniuses".

The GWOT only caused terror to thrive wherever it was waged. It routinely killed dozens of innocent people in every air bombing, drone strike and land operation for every real terrorist it eliminated. It was a godsend for the biggest American and British weapons manufacturers－and for nobody else anywhere. It made a mockery of US claims to be the greatest democracy in the world, and lastingly shamed and discredited the cause of the very democracy it claimed to defend across the globe. It bankrupted the US economy and exhausted the US armed forces.

Bush's "global war on terror" was a total failure. The American people and the entire world are better off without it.

How Washington lost its 20-year 'war on terror' - Opinion - Chinadaily.com.cn

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Originally Posted by sabang

Moving right along:-

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care to reply to my comments?

The winner, a comment on the article.

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Originally Posted by misskit

I don’t think anyone thinks the Chinese people should be eternally poor

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Do you consider this as a fair statement by the topics' writer?

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Originally Posted by sabang

the US to abandon its ambitions to crush China.

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Simply a matter of changing the thread title to "The Three Stooges make yet another thread to fill with dreary chinky propaganda".

Job done.

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Originally Posted by Samuel

Mods, I have responded to sabang, but my posts haven't been posted.

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Samuel, turn your computer off and on, that will reset your system and maybe stop your problem.

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Originally Posted by sabang

Who pushed forward China's rise? Who provided the fundamental driving force of this trend? As far as I see, this is the dream of several generations with noble aspirations and the Communist Party of China united the Chinese people. The Chinese people as a whole eventually turned the dream into a historic trend.

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sounds rather pleasant

OK Samuel, yawn.

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The U.S. hasn't been the best superpower like when the neocons took power, etc.

Though, I'd rather the U.S. be the world's superpower any day — rather than China.

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No it hasn't this century- but lets not forget the 20th 'American Century'. The days of the World having a sole superpower are over- may as well get used to that fact. Frankly, it was an historical anomaly made possible by the cataclysmic events of WW2, and enlightened American action immediately thereafter.

Am I basically comfortable with the emerging Multipolar world order- Yes. Absolute power corrupts, and America can get it as wrong as anyone else. Just ask them neo-cons, before lopping their heads off. Soon enough, India will have a seat at the big table too.

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Just ask people in Hong Kong who were promised "one country two systems" whether they have a choice about what has become of Hong Kong which went from the top of the list of free economies to the bottom in a short period of time.

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Actually, it still is one country two systems. HK has it's own Judiciary, Police force, customs and immigration, Rule of Law, etc etc. All of the people that I know are quite comfortable living there. Those that aren't, are quite free to leave, and always were.

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Hope the West puts China in its place.

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Now this is interesting. What is 'China's place'. To be poor? To be weak? That comes across as downright racist actually.

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To start with — make it pay up trillions of dollars of damage to the world for allowing the wuhan virus to infect the world: blocking flights from Wuhan to around China, but allowing international flights and hiding that it transmitted "person to person" until a case showed up in Thailand.

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And conspiracy theories and general garble not worth commenting on. Think you'll find the Delta variant from India is of more concern now anyway.



Happy now? :chitown:

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The Three Stooges

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There is one 'Stooge Superpower' in this thread. It is me. :)

Freedom of expression and a free press is not available to the Chinese people. They depend on the view of their government to lead and direct them.
If a Chinese citizen wishes to express his view of the Chinese government, his views are quashed by the party machine because the machine disagrees with him.
This is not the freedom that you laud in the op. All views are relevant and should be heard, even if we disagree with them. Point well made, but such freedoms do not exist in the Chinese state!

The US fears that losing its powerful financial hegemony to China is under threat. It holds no such fears from the EU! Can you see the difference.

The requirement for our combined success in future, needs the USA to be less belligerent, and the PRC to be more open. At the moment, both are ruled by the fears of each other.

Let all people enjoy the freedom to express their views. In this way, the idiots and conspiracy theorists can easily be dismissed. The best ideas usually come from the most unexpected sources, usually while sitting on the toilet.

I propose equal access for all to modern plumbing. ����

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The requirement for our combined success in future, needs the USA to be less belligerent, and the PRC to be more open.

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Well put Sir!! I could not agree more.


Yer bloods worth bottling. :)

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Originally Posted by sabang

And conspiracy theories and general garble not worth commenting on. Think you'll find the Delta variant from India is of more concern now anyway.

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The Delta variant that sprung up by itself without any connection to the original Wuhan virus?

Not as I understand it anyway. What do you understand by the term 'Variant'?

And how much would you want to fine parts of Africa, for AIDS and Ebola? Or the USA, for Syphilis? :chitown:


I think it extremely naive, this way of thinking. How to combat it, and prevent such recurring epidemics is the way forward. Or are you one of these Conspiracy Theorists, who think Covid was cooked up in a Wuhan Lab to ravage the West (but somehow not China, India etc). Na, that doesn't sound like you at all. :)

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Originally Posted by Switch

Freedom of expression and a free press is not available to

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Which countries would you suggest do have "a free press"?

Although I would include postings on internet fora are more available than the "press".