Social Security USA

A good Thai friend of mine (female) receives every month +/- 650 $ from he USA (SSA).
She is the widow of an American.

She was that stupid to quarantee a 10,000,000 HB+ loan for a Thai family member.
Of course the family member defaulted on the loan, and he Krung Thai bank went after my Thai friend.

Now her bankaccount with Bangkok Bank is blocked by court order. She can not touch the monthly SSA. The Krung Thai Bank/court can also not touch the money, because it's SSA money.

Is here a way she can circumvent the above situation?
1) SSA can not transfer to other Thai bank because of SSA regulation
2) My friend doesn't have an American passport, only Thai.


Any ideas
Thanks,
Prem

leave thailand, transfer the payments to a new account outside thailand, then either negotiate a final settlement with the bank or return to thailand at a later date and hope the bank does not notice.

as a suggestion, could be very bad advice

She should deal directly with the Social Security office is USA. We have VFW post covering most of Thailand. Each post has a Service Officer. They are trained to help and handle cases like this all of the time. Does she live near Korat? If she needs help finding a service officer or vfw post send me a PM and I can locate one. John

Was this ladies husband ever in the military of the USA? If so the service officer is required to help. If he was, what post did he belong to, if any. And if he was military does she have a copy of his DD-214? Most service officers will help even if the American was not military. John

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Originally Posted by hazz

leave thailand, transfer the payments to a new account outside thailand, then either negotiate a final settlement with the bank or return to thailand at a later date and hope the bank does not notice.

as a suggestion, could be very bad advice

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Her life is here in Thailand. She can not settle outside Thailand (temporalily).

There will be negotiations with the bank, but I am quite sure they will not be succesfull, 18.000 THB monthly vs 10,000,000 THB debt.

Thanks for the advice,
Prem

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Originally Posted by Ceburat1

Was this ladies husband ever in the military of the USA? If so the service officer is required to help. If he was, what post did he belong to, if any. And if he was military does she have a copy of his DD-214? Most service officers will help even if the American was not military. John

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Yes he was military.
I try to send you a peronal message. Unfortunatly I can not (newbie).

What is a vfw post? Is that Jusmag Thai?

Thanks,
Prem

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Originally Posted by hazz

leave thailand, transfer the payments to a new account outside thailand, then either negotiate a final settlement with the bank or return to thailand at a later date and hope the bank does not notice.

as a suggestion, could be very bad advice

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There's the answer. Problem is she'd need a friend to open a Thai account in order to use her new ATM card. Might get ripped off by the friend. I doubt you can open a new account in the USA by proxy or by not being there in person. The best way would to contact SSA and give them the account number of a friend in Thailand and have them help her. But would the SSA deposit the funds in an account that wasn't hers?

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Originally Posted by Camel Toe

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Originally Posted by hazz

leave thailand, transfer the payments to a new account outside thailand, then either negotiate a final settlement with the bank or return to thailand at a later date and hope the bank does not notice.

as a suggestion, could be very bad advice

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There's the answer. Problem is she'd need a friend to open a Thai account in order to use her new ATM card. Might get ripped off by the friend. I doubt you can open a new account in the USA by proxy or by not being there in person. The best way would to contact SSA and give them the account number of a friend in Thailand and have them help her. But would the SSA deposit the funds in an account that wasn't hers?

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The SSA will no deposit in someone else account. Even worse, ATM is also not allowed and you have to get the money in person from your account at the Bangkok Bank.
All this in order to prevent fraud.

Good advice to Thai Relatives = "Neither a lender or borrower be". I only give them money for children's education, school fees & clothes, repair the farm equipment, and the usual village cremation contributions & some family gatherings. These are useful financial contributions. They have much richer relatives than myself, who seldom give them any money. I shamed those rich guys into at least bringing a case of Chaing & Lao Kao to extended family gatherings. The thought never crossed their Thai minds. FIL was most embarassed, but thanked me for saying what he could not for family reasons. GF was mortified.

I'd be nice if she lived near a border.

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Originally Posted by cdnski12

Good advice to Thai Relatives = "Neither a lender or borrower be". I only give them money for children's education, school fees & clothes, repair the farm equipment, and the usual village cremation contributions & some family gatherings. These are useful financial contributions. They have much richer relatives than myself, who seldom give them any money. I shamed those rich guys into at least bringing a case of Chaing & Lao Kao to extended family gatherings. The thought never crossed their Thai minds. FIL was most embarassed, but thanked me for saying what he could not for family reasons. GF was mortified.

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Yes she learned her lesson, now we have to deal with the consequences.

Just get a new bank account at another bank and go direct to SSA and transfer the direct deposit. SSA will not acknowledge the court order.

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Originally Posted by bsnub

Just get a new bank account at another bank and go direct to SSA and transfer the direct deposit. SSA will not acknowledge the court order.

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As far as I know, the SSA will only ransfer to Bangkok Bank Headoffice when you live / reside in Thailand. No any other bank.

No, unless you owe money to the Federal Government itself (eg back taxes or a defaulted student loan), Social Security Payments cannot be garnished, and even then the Government itself can only take 15% of each payment. Read this as Title 42 United States Code Section 207. It's possible, I'm not sure that the FBI office in Bangkok or the American Embassy may help her.

Sec. 207. [42 U.S.C. 407] (a) The right of any person to any future payment under this title shall not be transferable or assignable, at law or in equity, and none of the moneys paid or payable or rights existing under this title shall be subject to execution, levy, attachment, garnishment, or other legal process, or to the operation of any bankruptcy or insolvency law.
(b) No other provision of law, enacted before, on, or after the date of the enactment of this section[92], may be construed to limit, supersede, or otherwise modify the provisions of this section except to the extent that it does so by express reference to this section.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit withholding taxes from any benefit under this title, if such withholding is done pursuant to a request made in accordance with section 3402(p)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986[93] by the person entitled to such benefit or such person’s representative payee.

No one except the IRS or Social Security can garnish or take Social Security funds. She needs to find an attorney in the US to fight Thailand.

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Originally Posted by Prem

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Originally Posted by Ceburat1

Was this ladies husband ever in the military of the USA? If so the service officer is required to help. If he was, what post did he belong to, if any. And if he was military does she have a copy of his DD-214? Most service officers will help even if the American was not military. John

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Yes he was military.
I try to send you a peronal message. Unfortunatly I can not (newbie).

What is a vfw post? Is that Jusmag Thai?

Thanks,
Prem

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OK. JUSMAGTHAI office can direct you to the local VFW post if the lady lives in the Bangkok area but not sure if they can be of any other help.

VFW Veterns of Foreign Wars.

I spoke with my wife this morning before giving out her information on this forum - she said go ahead and have the lady call her. My wife Nui was the leader of the local VFW Wives Club last year here in Korat. Nui and our VFW service officer work together to help the widows in our area. Nui can and will help this lady or get her to the one who can. Her telephone number is 085-304-1701. John

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She needs to find an attorney in the US to fight Thailand.

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That shouldn't cost more than a couple of years of SS checks. :)

I'm surprised one could co-sign a loan for 10,000,000 baht on an income of only $650 a month.

For your info I'm pretty sure there is a VFW post that holds its meetings out of JUSMAGTHAI.

If she can't afford to fly back to the states or pay for an attorney she may have no choice but to find another bank or credit union in the USA and deal with ATM fees.

Word of caution ... Not all VFW Services Officers are above board. There is an one post in Thailand that had a Services Officer who was charging fees to widows to help them get their money. And the big VFW in the states has no jurisdiction ... Won't or can't do a darn thing to punish slime buckets.

I think the Retired Affairs Office at JUSMAGTHAI will help her even if her deceased spouse isn't retired military or a disabled veteran simply because if Bangkok Bangkok is doing this it might jeopardize the SS funds of the retired military members. Maybe ... I'm not sure.

Bangkok Bank operates a branch in New York through which this deposit is made and is therefore subject to American law and banking regulations. She is their customer, which means they had a fiduciary duty to treat her money as a reasonable person would treat their own.

Social security payments cannot be legally garnished assigned or attached in any manner before or after payment as I cited above. She also has the option of demanding the money from Bangkok Bank and filing a complaint with the Social Security Administration and American banking authorities if it is refused.

A letter from the right party would certainly get their attention since American regulators do not play politics or care about the social status of the parties like Thai regulators do.

You might want to get local Thai legal advice and ask why the bank would allow her to be the guarantee on a 10,000,000 thb loan with only 18,000 thb in income?

It could be highly possible to get the whole thing dropped in court due to the fact she probably never met the banks written qualifications for a loan guarantee of that amount.

At 18,000 a month you are looking at 46 years payback with no interest tagged on.

The bank could be trying to intimidate her due to lack of education or social status.

However, I believe getting hold of the banks written rules and regulations for a loan guarantee of 10,000,000 would greatly assist your case and could prove the bank was definitely wrong in this case.

^ ^ ^ Amazing someone would co-sign for anyone. Jeez, there's a reason they need a co-signer. If the bank won't qualify them for a loan why would you? And then too, co-sign is a misnomer. You get the idea it's co, as in two people. But it's not. He who doesn't pay turns the contract over to he who now has to pay.

Here in this country you can enter into an agreement and sign promising to make payments. The person holding the contract can sell it to anyone he wishes as a means to pay his debts. Now you've lost the payment agreement and have to pay the amount of the loan in cash. If not they come for your personal property.

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Originally Posted by Camel Toe

Amazing someone would co-sign for anyone. Jeez, there's a reason they need a co-signer

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There are circumstances where it is appropriate. I co-signed for a loan that my wife took out for home renovations knowing full well that I was totally responsible for paying back the loan. It is much more difficult for a farang to get a loan so that was the best option.

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Originally Posted by ralphlsasser

No one except the IRS or Social Security can garnish or take Social Security funds. She needs to find an attorney in the US to fight Thailand.

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That is not an option for 18,000 HB/monh

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Originally Posted by Ceburat1

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Originally Posted by Prem

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Originally Posted by Ceburat1

Was this ladies husband ever in the military of the USA? If so the service officer is required to help. If he was, what post did he belong to, if any. And if he was military does she have a copy of his DD-214? Most service officers will help even if the American was not military. John

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Yes he was military.
I try to send you a peronal message. Unfortunatly I can not (newbie).

What is a vfw post? Is that Jusmag Thai?

Thanks,
Prem

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OK. JUSMAGTHAI office can direct you to the local VFW post if the lady lives in the Bangkok area but not sure if they can be of any other help.

VFW Veterns of Foreign Wars.

I spoke with my wife this morning before giving out her information on this forum - she said go ahead and have the lady call her. My wife Nui was the leader of the local VFW Wives Club last year here in Korat. Nui and our VFW service officer work together to help the widows in our area. Nui can and will help this lady or get her to the one who can. Her telephone number is 085-304-1701. John

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Thanks John,
Your (and your wife) help is really appreciated. I will sen you later today a PM.

Prem

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Originally Posted by Camel Toe

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She needs to find an attorney in the US to fight Thailand.

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That shouldn't cost more than a couple of years of SS checks. :)

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Exacly, not an option.

Prem

[quote=Storekeeper;2372987]I'm surprised one could co-sign a loan for 10,000,000 baht on an income of only $650 a month.

For your info I'm pretty sure there is a VFW post that holds its meetings out of JUSMAGTHAI.

If she can't afford to fly back to the states or pay for an attorney she may have no choice but to find another bank or credit union in the USA and deal with ATM fees.
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Thanks for your reply,

At the time of the loan, the income was not only $650. And there were assets.

Is it possible for a Non-Us passport holder residing in Thailand but wih SS, to open a bankaccount in the US?

Prem

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Originally Posted by BobR

Bangkok Bank operates a branch in New York through which this deposit is made and is therefore subject to American law and banking regulations. She is their customer, which means they had a fiduciary duty to treat her money as a reasonable person would treat their own.

Social security payments cannot be legally garnished assigned or attached in any manner before or after payment as I cited above. She also has the option of demanding the money from Bangkok Bank and filing a complaint with the Social Security Administration and American banking authorities if it is refused.

A letter from the right party would certainly get their attention since American regulators do not play politics or care about the social status of the parties like Thai regulators do.

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Hi BobR,

Will send you a PM, as soon as I reach the 20 posts.

Prem

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Originally Posted by liveinlos

You might want to get local Thai legal advice and ask why the bank would allow her to be the guarantee on a 10,000,000 thb loan with only 18,000 thb in income?

It could be highly possible to get the whole thing dropped in court due to the fact she probably never met the banks written qualifications for a loan guarantee of that amount.

At 18,000 a month you are looking at 46 years payback with no interest tagged on.

The bank could be trying to intimidate her due to lack of education or social status.

However, I believe getting hold of the banks written rules and regulations for a loan guarantee of 10,000,000 would greatly assist your case and could prove the bank was definitely wrong in this case.

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At that time income was much more than 18,000 THB

Prem

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Originally Posted by Camel Toe

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She needs to find an attorney in the US to fight Thailand.

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That shouldn't cost more than a couple of years of SS checks. :)

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Nothing and I mean NOTHING one does with the Social Security is easy or fast.

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Nothing and I mean NOTHING one does with the Social Security is easy or fast.

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Sure, they're hoping you'll die while waiting.

I've found the P.I. Office of SS quite helpful.

A few more observations.

Now one option for the lass would be to go to hong kong and open a bank account with a local bank that does not have a branch in thailand. Then ask the US SS to sen the payments to the hk account. The down side is that she will end up loosing money on exchange and ATM fees, the positive side is that the thai bank will have to goto court in HK to freeze the account. on top of that to find out where the money had gone they would need to ask either the guarantor or US SS... neither of which would be co-operative, I would hope.

The issue will be, and the reason I would suggest she stays out the country, is how will the thai court react to this? You say that the bank is not entitled to the SS payments, but is that under US law or thai law.... because its going to be thai and not US law that decides what can be done with this SS payment once its in thailand. So going down this road will require a lot of care to make sure she does not do anything criminal or generally make things worse for her.... she does not want to get into contempt of court or money laundering issues. Think how a US court would react to someone doing what I have outlined here to get hold of money that was going inot a frozen bank account.

The only other option I can see is to nit pick the contract she signed to guarantee the debt and the relevant thai laws to see if the guarantee can be voided. I suspect this is unlikely given how things work here

The social security money still come in the frozen BKK Bank account by the Thai court, and nothing changed.

After some research and help from this forum there are 3 options:

1) She will apply for Direct Express Card.They will send her an debit card which she can use in Thailand. http://www.usdirectexpress.com
2) Her daughter (has a US passport) will be the representative payee for her mother.
3) She open bankaccount in U.S.A.

Anybody on this TD has experience with the first 2 options?

Thanks,
Prem

Mine was easy to apply for when I was in Thailand. Sent in my forms and got a call from the Philippines, answered a few questions and in three months got a three-month retroactive check (deposit). Got no complaints at all. I may have already mentioned this, sorry if I did.