Keep it civil lads.
Your opinion?
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Keep it civil lads.
Your opinion?
No way.
No way.
I'll do my best.Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Yes but Democracy means very different things to many different people. No one size fits all.
islam forms the perfect democracy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom O
They're actually! Many in the West believe that tolerance and equality is something alien to Islam. It ain't true. Islam is committed not only to tolerance and equality but to the principles of democracy. The Holy Quran says that, "Islamic society is contingent on 'mutual advice through mutual discussions on an equal footing'".Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallalai
Fat chance!Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Rubbish ! Rubbish and rubbish. Tolerance my ass. And equality ? Are women equal to men in islam ? You're a liar like all the muslims and arabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Islam is a law in itself, and only want to replace our occidental rules by the one of the Coran. The muslim migrants cannot integrate coz they put the islamic rules higher than the law where they live.
Maybe you should look in Europe where the "ethnical and religious war" has already beginned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
I'm not challenging your notion or knowledge of Islam being committed to democracy.
But why is an Islamic state such as Saudi Arabia, not democratic?
Egypt? Iran? Kuwait? Syria? Libya, etc.
These are "Islamic nations."
I can tell you about Islam only if you keep it civil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallalai
Mohammad accepted women as equal partners in society, in business and even in war. Islam codified the rights of women. The Quran elevates the status of women to that of men. It guarantees women civil, economic and political rights.
For your information, the world's first person to embrace Islam was women.
You can't blame Islam for that. They're simply misguided.Quote:
The muslim migrants cannot integrate coz they put the islamic rules higher than the law where they live.
There's a long history behind these countries which I'll post in bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkmanQuote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
I'm not challenging your notion or knowledge of Islam being committed to democracy.
But why is an Islamic state such as Saudi Arabia, not democratic?
Egypt? Iran? Kuwait? Syria? Libya, etc.
These are "Islamic nations."
Maybe you've not see this video I posted in another thread, can you tell me where you can see an ounce of tolerance there ?
YouTube - Arab Festival 2009: Sharia in the US
I haven't and don't wish to watch it because they are prolly a bunch of misguided Muslims. You can't blame Islam for the the actions of a handful Muslim nutters.
I'll post my side of argument and you can question me whenever you feel like.
I'd agree with you Macha if I could see some examples of where Islam and democracy actually does work.
Indonesia is an exception, but most Indonesians subscribe to red Islam, the local laid back tolerant version which isn't seen anywhere else.
Turkey ? you might like to ask the Armenians about Turkish democracy.
Then try to bring all the misguided muslims and their imams on the right way and come back ... let's say in 5 or 6 centuries to ask the question in your OP. Actually islam in not compatible with democracy.Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Jesus said something like 'Pay Caesars dues to Caesar, but God's dues to God'. Or so a Jehovahs Witness told me. They won't do stuff like salute the flag, sing a national anthem or join an army. That got them into a lot of strife In Hitlers Germany, but they have no problem co-existing in a democracy.
I think the answer as to whether Islam and democracy can coexist comes down to your interpretation of Islam. Strict Fundamentalists seem to think the only acceptable government is a Theocracy- so no go there. JW's are 'Fundamentalist Christians' and they see the current form of national governments as a temporal thing (come the Apocalypse and all that), & I think religious Jews have a similar philosophy. In Turkey and Indonesia there is democracy. Libya is a dictatorship, but basically secular. Iran is a kind of hybrid theo/democracy.
The struggle between Fundamentalism and secularism within the Islamic world is more interesting to me than the media saturated 'Jihad terrorism' actually.
maybe not BUT surely Islam can be asked to address this problem .Quote:
You can't blame Islam for the the actions of a handful Muslim nutters.
In several quarters it is, and it should certainly be encouraged. Sensationalist media coverage unfortunately does not help, in both the Islamic and Western world.
that is true , however where is the fair media coverage ? Whilst I am not doubting your word , In several quarters it is, this is next to useless if played out behind closed doors .Quote:
Sensationalist media coverage unfortunately does not help, in both the Islamic and Western world.
You will find the odd article about Muslims speaking out against Jihadists, or the secular and womens rights advocates in Iran and so on. Recently there was an article about a Mullah in France who advocates a very reasonable, even liberal, form of Islam, and is in favour of the Burkha ban.
But beheadings, jihads and bombings sell more papers. :rolleyes:
exactly , it is not enough , in fact it's almost the exception to the ruleQuote:
You will find the odd article
what is wrong in requesting folks to clean up their own backyard ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Only amongst Muslims though , I fear!
Perhaps that would be the problem . 'Join us or your dead' isn't very democratic .
Another thread is talking about a group of Islamic scholars issuing a "fatwa" prohibiting Muslims from going through airport scanners. Fair enough but I was surprised to hear on a TV debate yesterday, India is only country where Islamic leaders have unanimously issued a fatwa stating acts of terrorism are against the principals of Islam.
Good question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mid
Quote:
Originally Posted by machangezi
Islam compatible with democracy when:
- a muslim can give up his religion without fear of his family or government
- a muslim allowed to say negative things about islam or koran
the key word is freedom.
To the OP-
NO- it is a ridiculous notion, no religion is compatible with Democracy, that is one very good reason why we in the west have secular soceitys, If you imagine Christianity was given the same status as Islam, above the law and Government in our Western Country's, do you really think that Democracy would be retained? and that goes for every other religion in the world.
Christianity, Chatolichs ect. might today appear more tolerant and meek than the Muslim religion, but I am sure that is only because we are suppressing the religions and their importance and power in our Society's, we do not have to go far back in time when people where terrorized and killed by the Priesthoods of our religions.
That said the Muslim faith is one of the worst, and no matter how much you speculate in that the Muslim writings is being misunderstood today, the fact is how that particular religion is practiced by the vast majority of it's followers, it is a religion worshipping the worst and most evil tendency's in human beings.
Misconceptions in medieval times can be understood, but practicing medieval cruelty today is impossible to excuse.
And I do not buy the good Muslims everywhere argument, they are an absolute minority and subject to death threat's and prosecution from their own if they dare to open their mouths to wide, in my Country we have a few liberal Muslims gone into politics, they have to live with constant Police protection.
And that is why the Muslims do not clean up their own act, they cant because the ones that might want to are so very few and yield no power in reality.
All religions are basically about repression, and the attempt to make humans conform to one ideology alone, and most are accompanied by threat's if you don't, you go to hell ect. They are anti democracy in pure form.