Cuba

Greetings all. I was watching a little TV last night and Anthony Bourdains No reservations program was running. It was in set Cuba. I quite like this program and the presenter. He has a rather dry sense of humour I like. The thing I can't understand is just why the Americans still have an embargo against Cuba when they deal with other Communist countries around the world without a problem so why pick on a small Caribbean island in the 21st century. I was hoping one of the many Americans may help with an answer. Does it all stem from the missile crisis all those years ago or something else.
I would love to visit the place after watching the program. Loved all the old American cars cruising around Havana. Cheers people ! BF :)
:UK:

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The thing I can't understand is just why the Americans still have an embargo against Cuba when they deal with other Communist countries around the world without a problem so why pick on a small Caribbean island in the 21st century. I was hoping one of the many Americans may help with an answer.

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your answer,........

Cuban-American lobby - Organizations

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Originally Posted by S Landreth

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

The thing I can't understand is just why the Americans still have an embargo against Cuba when they deal with other Communist countries around the world without a problem so why pick on a small Caribbean island in the 21st century. I was hoping one of the many Americans may help with an answer.

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your answer,........

Cuban-American lobby - Organizations

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No offence intended but your interpretation of the word answer is totally different to the one I have. I fully understand there are plenty of people against Cuba I would just like someone to explain to me in a few lines or more why not send me a list of the organisations that hate Cuba. Trawling through thousands upon thousands of pages on the internet I can do.
Anyone ?
Cheers BF

I'll take a shot. I know lots of Cuban/Americans. The ones I know are almost all Special Ops guys (SEALs, Delta, Rangers). I also know some who are civilians, but work for some esoteric elements of the USG. Without exception they are super-patriots, flag-waving Americans, and harbor a consuming hatred for Castro, communism and his regime. Most of the ones I know had parents or grandparents who lost everything when Castro took over. They landed in America with nothing, have almost all been very successful, and will all oppose any type of reconciliation with Cuba as long as it remains communist, and under the control of Castro's heirs.

I personally don't think that makes sense. Killing them with capitalism would bring down the regime faster than a boycott, which they have survived for generations.

But, otherwise totally reasonable guys I know are rigid in their hatred, and will not listen to opposing views. This isn't a great political or economic analysis, just the way all the Cuban/Americans I know think, and a large part of what I believe is driving policy.

Footnote: I think the Obaminator's regime is also scared to make any concessions to a communist country in an election year.

I agree, it doesn't make sense. IMO, most Americans think it doesn't make much sense, but it's not high enough a priority to make noise over.
Wasn't Bobo yammering on about easing restrictions early in his term?
Guess he needed the campaign contributions from influential Cuban-Americans, and votes from Cuban illegal aliens.

So it seems to boil down to Castro and a continued hatred of what he did. Cuba can't be th only country to kick out the Yanks. If that is what its about how do these same die hard flag waving Americans explain or justify Vietnam for crying out loud. For me a Brit that was far worse than anything Castro did yet they have made their peace with Vietnam now. Surely it has to be more than that ?
Would dropping the embargo really cost a candidate the win ?

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

So it seems to boil down to Castro and a continued hatred of what he did. Cuba can't be th only country to kick out the Yanks. If that is what its about how do these same die hard flag waving Americans explain or justify Vietnam for crying out loud. For me a Brit that was far worse than anything Castro did yet they have made their peace with Vietnam now. Surely it has to be more than that ?
Would dropping the embargo really cost a candidate the win ?

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Cuba and Vietnam are totally different. Cubans fled a communist regime and lost everything by doing so. If you want to discuss Vietnam, I would recommend you do so seperately. Would dropping the embargo cost the win? Doubt it. But for Barry, it would surely cost him lots of votes from those who already see him as a fellow traveller.

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So it seems to boil down to Castro

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[Fidel] Castro has been slipping out of the picture for nearly a decade. Raul is far more reform minded.
In Vietnam, the US supported a democratically-inclined SVN.
Vietnam today is more capitalistic than the US.
Why hasn't the rest of the world turned Cuba into an economic powerhouse and exotic resort destination for zillionaires in their Lear jets? Is it the sole responsibility of the US?

Maybe it's a grand experiment to see if anyone else will get up off their tired, lazy butts. :)

[quote=Panty Hamster;2168739]

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Fidel] Castro has been out of the picture for nearly a decade.

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Actually, it's just been a bit over four years (April 2008).

DK how are they different ? They were both taken over by Communist rebels and kicked who then the Americans out. They then became Communist states yet now the Americans have no problems with Vietnam or even Venezuela who has a President that seems to hate the USA with a passion. Castro has as said been out of the picture for years so it has to be something other than just an outright hatred of all things Communist. What will happen when Castro dies ? Would it then be OK to forget the past and move on ?
Such a shame that in this day and age when Cuba obviously is of no threat to the USA that the ordinary people of Cuba have to suffer for what seem like political squabbling

It is a ridiculous policy, well past it's sell-by date. I have to wonder about the purity of motive of the Cuban American pressure groups- for a start, they are not representative of the average Cuban at all (they are the ones who did not come over broke), secondly they benefit from existing tariffs under the current trade regime (eg, Americans pay over double the world price for sugar- and they are the worlds largest consumers by far, plus live right next to the zone that the sugar cane originated from and is native to). More cynically, I doubt it is the average Lopez that brings in the rather large consignments of Cuban cigars, that amerkins just love to flaunt in several circles, at inflated prices. This is one example where an entrenched, organised and well funded lobby group influences US policy, against it's best interests.

Fidel handed over duties as President, First Secretary and commander in chief in July 2006. He had been increasingly absent in years leading up to that announcement.

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ordinary people of Cuba have to suffer

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Suffer? From what? Isn't the rest of the world able to trade with them freely? Is China prohibited from investing in Cuba? Isn't Europe capable of free trade with a Caribbean island nation to ease it's suffering?

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

DK how are they different ? They were both taken over by Communist rebels and kicked who then the Americans out. They then became Communist states yet now the Americans have no problems with Vietnam or even Venezuela who has a President that seems to hate the USA with a passion. Castro has as said been out of the picture for years so it has to be something other than just an outright hatred of all things Communist. What will happen when Castro dies ? Would it then be OK to forget the past and move on ?
Such a shame that in this day and age when Cuba obviously is of no threat to the USA that the ordinary people of Cuba have to suffer for what seem like political squabbling

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Cuba did not kick Americans out. The American businessmen there (and mobsters) who had their businesses nationalized, left. Cuba also did not kick out Cubans at the time of the overthrow of the government by Castro's rebels. Cubans fled, rather then be jailed as supporters of the former regime. Castro has only been out of the picture for four years, and there have been some modest relaxations in US policy. I doubt there will be a significant change when Fidel dies (other than a Miami-wide block party). Castro was in power for around 50 years; most of Cuba's population were born or came into adulthood under Castro. I personally don't believe the population has sufferred major hardship due to the US embargo. Most of their real problems started when Russia quit subsidizing Cuba. And, does the Cuban government want to normalize relations with the US in any case? Open their borders? Allow Cubans to travel freely? Never to return? Does America want another huge influx of Cuban economic refugees? Can Barry actually make a decision???About anything?

I'm skipping the Vietnam section. Totally irrelevant to a discussion of Cuba.

I am not trying to turn this into an argumentative thread but rather just trying to find why after all these years there is still a lot of bitterness and hatred it seems. Cuba used to have very close ties with the USA judging by what i watched on TV. Will have to look to see if I can find any good documentaries to download and watch.
Cheers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Panty Hamster

Why hasn't the rest of the world turned Cuba into an economic powerhouse and exotic resort destination for zillionaires in their Lear jets?

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Do you mean why hasn't the government of cuba turned Cuba into an economic powerhouse and exotic resort destination for zillionaires in their Lear jets?
But I know what you mean and agree in principle.

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

why after all these years there is still a lot of bitterness and hatred.

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I don't see that at all. Attitudes toward U.S. policies on Cuba are changing, and support for repealing the embargo is growing. Bitterness and hatred? No. Indifference, yes. It is only an important issue to relatively small communities in a few states.

It's a minor political football exploited by governments on both sides -- dusted off and brought out when they need to score negligible, petty points.

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Originally Posted by Panty Hamster

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

why after all these years there is still a lot of bitterness and hatred.

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I don't see that at all. Attitudes toward U.S. policies on Cuba are changing, and support for repealing the embargo is growing. Bitterness and hatred? No. Indifference, yes. It is only an important issue to relatively small communities in a few states.

It's a minor political football exploited by governments on both sides -- dusted off and brought out when they need to score negligible, petty points.

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PH to you as an American, I'm guessing, it is no big deal to most of you but looking at it as an outside a lot of us just don't get it and suppose never will. Though I shake my head at a lot of things Americans do as you do the Brits I suppose :)

Yes, indeed. :)

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

PH to you as an American, I'm guessing, it is no big deal to most of you but looking at it as an outside a lot of us just don't get it and suppose never will. Though I shake my head at a lot of things Americans do as you do the Brits I suppose :)

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I think PH hit it with "indifference". Most Americans rarely give Cuba even a passing thought, and most of their knowledge of Cuba comes from movies like "Scarface". We are currently involved in multiple conflicts in the Middle East, have an economy in the toilet, have Iran and North Korea in the wings, and have no adult leadership. Cuba isn't even on the board when it comes to things Americans are concerned about.

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Originally Posted by The Big Fella

after all these years there is still a lot of bitterness and hatred it seems

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it still continues and it will continue until the old regime (exiles) dies off. The older Cubans in Miami are slowly fading away along with their attitudes.

There will be change, but it will come slowly.

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Originally Posted by sabang

More cynically, I doubt it is the average Lopez that brings in the rather large consignments of Cuban cigars, that amerkins just love to flaunt in several circles, at inflated prices.

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reminds me, when visiting Hong Kong this year I have to pick up 3 boxes of good Cuban cigars and bring them back (sneak them in) home to Miami with me. The guys love them!

they say they are the best

Hear they have fantastic medical care there in Cuba? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Hear they have fantastic medical care there in Cuba? :rolleyes:

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Probably better than Thailand.

From the people that I know who have visited there, they just love the place.Nice people, cheap rum and very, very nice woman....

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Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Hear they have fantastic medical care there in Cuba?

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Keeping Hugo Chavez alive.

Canucks love their Cuban vakays. Stupid gits.
I read a great book about Cuba. Think it was this one: https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2012/07/2853.jpg


Cuba: The Land of Miracles: A Journey Through Modern Cuba

by Stephen Smith

I think there are enough people in the US government who remember when the world was pushed to the brink of WWIII over the Cuban Missle Crisis- relations will one day be normalized, but bad feelings still exist.