St. Louis set to drop Minimum Wage from $10 to $7.70 per hour

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ST. LOUIS -- Cities all over the United States have been boosting their minimum wage. It's up to $15 an hour in Seattle, but it's going in the opposite direction in St. Louis, Missouri.

Amer Hawatmeh's family-owned restaurant in downtown St. Louis is struggling.

Along with rising sales taxes, and meat prices, a minimum wage hike to $10 an hour two months ago made it expensive to stay open. So he's cut back from five to two days a week for lunch. His hamburgers are smaller, his entrees pricier and his customers scarcer.

Hawatmeh believes it's not the government, but a combination of worker determination and customer demand that should set the correct wage.

"That's how I built myself," he said. "That's how I'm teaching my children to build themselves. Don't ask what do I get, ask what can I do."

And Missouri Gov. Eric Greitens agrees. Next month, the minimum wage will return to $7.70 an hour -- ten bucks an hour was a mistake, he says.

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"Despite what you hear from liberals, it will take money out of people's pockets," Greitens said.

Cities all over the country have been boosting their minimum wage. It's up to $15 an hour in Seattle, but it's going in the opposite direction in St. Louis.

But after nationwide protests, the minimum wage went up on July 1, or will go up soon -- from Chicago to Flagstaff, Arizona, and Los Angeles to Washington, D.C.

Wanda Roberts, a minimum wage worker in St. Louis, said the new $10 wage brought in an extra $400 a month and helped the local economy.

"If we're making $10 an hour, we're going to go right back out and spend that money," Roberts said.

And now that it's being reversed, she says she would "go back to struggling."

"Trying to worry about how I'm going to pay my rent, how I'm going to pay my bills and how I'm going to have money left over to buy household supplies and food," she added. In St. Louis, the minimum wage was going to increase to $11 an hour in January. Now, that won't happen. And by one estimate, 38,000 workers could miss out on a raise.

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Minimum wage set to drop in Missouri

$10 really isn't much, especially in an economy where crappy service jobs are becoming the norm. Its not like its just high school schlubs doing these jobs anymore. Adults (and young adults) do these jobs for a living, I know plenty of them. Surviving on 7 and change an hour isn't feasible and the way our economy is heading people are going to be doing these jobs for a living for some time to come.

It does suck for that burger guy, but end of the day this is money that will get cycled right back into the economy because these people need to spend it. If you can't pay your workers ten bucks....I mean maybe your business model needs a refresh. Not trying to be cold but seriously.

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Originally Posted by redhaze

If you can't pay your workers ten bucks....I mean maybe your business model needs a refresh. Not trying to be cold but seriously.

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Bye Bye small business, hello Walmarts, WinnDixie, Publix, Taco Hell, etc...

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Originally Posted by Slick

Bye Bye small business, hello Walmarts, WinnDixie, Publix, Taco Hell, etc...

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What a crock of shit. Seattle has a $15 minimum wage and there is record low unemployment and the businesses are thriving. Another right wing red herring.

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Originally Posted by Slick

Bye Bye small business, hello Walmarts, WinnDixie, Publix, Taco Hell, etc...

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I've owned more than one small business and never paid my employees less than 10 bucks an hour.

For me (just for selfish reasons) the minimum wage being low does help me. It helps me retain good employees while other cheapskates wind up costing themselves more money long term when it comes to training, productivity, an unhappy workplace, etc.

Businesses will adapt, 10 dollars an hour really isn't some kind of hurricane from whence there is no return. Its enough to provide a basic standard of living.

People said the same thing when they raised it to 5 bucks btw. Don't really think that wound up being a death knell for small business then either.

Republican concerns over small businesses suffering due to minimum wage rises seem a little odd when on the other hand they're also preaching about market forces and pulling yourself up by the boot-straps and whatnot.

For want of a better analogy, it's like the whole pro-life / pro-death penalty dichotomy.

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Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Republican concerns over small businesses suffering due to minimum wage rises seem a little odd when on the other hand they're also preaching about market forces and pulling yourself up by the boot-straps and whatnot.

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If you don't believe in any government regulation I don't see it as being much of a contradiction.

If you believe there shouldn't be a minimum wage whatsoever (which is really the logical conclusion of what is being argued) its fair to say that you are in an extreme minority on that though

Speaking for Seattle it has had no effect on jobs here in fact it has driven up wages across the board.

Of course being a progressive city helps as the majority of people including business owners are behind it. In red states this is one of those things that they do not want to let out of the bag so to speak. When people realize that it does not cost jobs they will demand hire wages. God now's the rich are never rich enough.

When Seattle first passed this law right wing media ran a bunch of fake news articles claiming that business's were closing because of the increase when it had not even taken effect.

^^You've confussed me on that one to be honest. I personally believe in both regulation and a decent, livable, minimum wage.

I was just mentally picturing the stereotypical Republican (though I should've said Conservative) politician bemoaning the fate of small business due to a rise in the minimum wage, and that same archetype merely shrugging their shoulders when Mom 'n Pops Food Co., Ltd. is sent bankrupt because it can't compete with Megatron Inc. and saying 'whaddaya gonna do, market forces'.

Yes, so no contradiction on your end either.

The other end would be that the market sets the wage. You said this contradicts the bootstrap thing. Why do you say that? Because they are complaining that government regulation affects their business? I think that's a stretch...lord knows the government is giant pain in the side of every small business (especially ones who have no lobbyists and can't pay them off)

The stories I have in this regard are literally mind boggling...the government is a huge hinderance to small business and that is hardly a right wing talking point.

^^Post edited

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Originally Posted by redhaze

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Originally Posted by Slick

Bye Bye small business, hello Walmarts, WinnDixie, Publix, Taco Hell, etc...

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I've owned more than one small business and never paid my employees less than 10 bucks an hour.

For me (just for selfish reasons) the minimum wage being low does help me. It helps me retain good employees while other cheapskates wind up costing themselves more money long term when it comes to training, productivity, an unhappy workplace, etc.

Businesses will adapt, 10 dollars an hour really isn't some kind of hurricane from whence there is no return. Its enough to provide a basic standard of living.

People said the same thing when they raised it to 5 bucks btw. Don't really think that wound up being a death knell for small business then either.

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Its really not. But if you have a fleet of labor making 7.70 & bump it up to 10, that shits gonna hurt everything. Its insane to in anyway insinuate or graph drop "evidence" to say it won't.

Meanwhile up north

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Originally Posted by Slick

Its really not.

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You mean not enough to make a living? Yeah, I agree with that. I was using the word basic to mean two people making that might be okay. In Tennessee.

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Originally Posted by Slick

that shits gonna hurt everything.

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Only if you think the money doesn't get cycled back around. Or doesn't get cycled back to the businesses that it hurts? I don't know, its pretty nuanced. I don't think its as clear cut as higher wages = people go out of business. There is a bigger picture. Honestly, I think the breaking point is when people start saving the money instead of spending it. That's critical mass.

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Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Meanwhile up north it is $10.85 per hour.

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Arizona just raised it to $12 bucks or something from what I understand. Hardly a bastion of progressive thought. And the voters voted it in overwhelmingly. The case against it is growing too thin, too much workers in poverty and living off food stamps for people to deny that it as being some hypothetical problem anymore.

I think the burger flipper's story above is biased in the sense that its all about his business, okay that's understandable but how many workers do you bring out of poverty by raising it? A lot. And that matters too. Everything is a trade off..

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Originally Posted by Slick

that shits gonna hurt everything. Its insane to in anyway insinuate or graph drop "evidence" to say it won't.

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There you have it folks redneck econ 101.

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Originally Posted by redhaze

I don't think its as clear cut as higher wages = people go out of business.

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That is the red herring and it has been proven to be false here.

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Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Meanwhile up north

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Meanwhile its 350/day in Thailand.

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Originally Posted by redhaze

Only if you think the money doesn't get cycled back around. Or doesn't get cycled back to the businesses that it hurts? I don't know, its pretty nuanced. I don't think its as clear cut as higher wages = people go out of business. There is a bigger picture. Honestly, I think the breaking point is when people start saving the money instead of spending it. That's critical mass.

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Of course its not clear cut. Some will do well because of it, and some won't. Other areas it'll help, and others it'll hurt.

Of course people like snobby like to make it appear so.

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Originally Posted by Slick

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Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Meanwhile up north

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Meanwhile its 350/day in Thailand.

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You really do love your fatuous comparisons to Thailand don't you.

You really do love cross-forum stalking & replying to almost every post I make don't you?

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Originally Posted by Slick

You really do love cross-forum stalking & replying to almost every post I make don't you?

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You really need to get a grip, a sense of perspective, and stop taking yourself so seriously. I don't, you're fucking hilarious! :D

And why is it when I post to/about you it's "stalking" yet when you do it isn't, snowflake.

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Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Meanwhile up north

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Maybe Canadians are worth more and the U.S. are just dumb.
Make America slaves again....ahhh I mean great again :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Slick

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Originally Posted by redhaze

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Originally Posted by Slick

Bye Bye small business, hello Walmarts, WinnDixie, Publix, Taco Hell, etc...

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I've owned more than one small business and never paid my employees less than 10 bucks an hour.

For me (just for selfish reasons) the minimum wage being low does help me. It helps me retain good employees while other cheapskates wind up costing themselves more money long term when it comes to training, productivity, an unhappy workplace, etc.

Businesses will adapt, 10 dollars an hour really isn't some kind of hurricane from whence there is no return. Its enough to provide a basic standard of living.

People said the same thing when they raised it to 5 bucks btw. Don't really think that wound up being a death knell for small business then either.

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Its really not. But if you have a fleet of labor making 7.70 & bump it up to 10, that shits gonna hurt everything. Its insane to in anyway insinuate or graph drop "evidence" to say it won't.

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People earning $10 can afford to buy more or better burgers.

So if your product is shit and no-one wants it, don't blame the minimum wage.

I noticed the business in question does not say how many people work there. Also it is "family owned" which usually implies most of the workers are "family". Not quite sure how opening a business less and decreasing the quality of your product improves your income. The fixed costs don't go down by opening a business less. Labour will be less but so will turnover. With that business model its a wonder he's survived at all.
A very poor example if that was meant to demonstrate how a wage increase adversely affected a business.

^Agreed. The guy is likely running a business that is on the verge of failing. And he's mad about it, and wants to deflect blame, and probably also a Republican.

Yeah I loved the "I'm gonna make my hamburgers smaller" bit. Way to advertise for people to give your business that doesn't open and makes crappy food a wide berth