Western Europe an Islamic Nation?

I just read an interesting sci-fi book called "Prayers for the Assassin." The basic premise is that 30 years in the future, the US becomes a moderate Islamic Republic after terrorist attacks destroy New York and DC. It is a bit more complex than that, but I won't rehash the whole plot.

What I found more interesting, however, was how the author described how Western Europe become an Islamic state. Most European nations some form of cradle-to-grave welfare systems that require an increasing supply of young workers to support the older generation. Since the Muslim immigrants have more children and the Europeans have done a terrible job of assimilating them into their society, they eventually take over these societies after two generations. Most of my knowledge of Europe and Britian is only second-hand through newspapers and television. So for those of you that are part of these countries, how plausible is this scenario?

"Western Europe" isn't a nation, and unlikely to become one in the next 30 yrs.
The demographics are there to support such sci-fi scenario.
It's a typically "American" theme, the dying out of "ethnic Europeans" and Islam becoming the dominant force is common subject on US political boards.
I reckon the influx from the new Eastern EU memberstates will play a key role in the future of Europe.

Well, njdesi, I'm sure it's an interesting read, but pure fiction all the same. Western Europe is an amalgam of so many different cultures, languages and religions that the premise is simply untenable.

It's highly unlikely that this scenario would unfold in the US, either. Makes for some good scare tactics and I'm sure the author is making a few quid out of it, but I reckon that's about as far as it goes.

Invasions can be by military occupation or immigration, the result is the same. Given current birth rates and immigration, Muslims are destined to be a majority in Europe by early next century. Rather than being assimilated, these immigrants are becoming more culturally isolated and hostile to the West. To say these things isn't a scare tactic, it's reality. Most Europeans are still in denial about this. Muslims are not being allowed in out of kindness, but as a source of cheap labor for greedy businessmen. In 2100, honor killings, public stonings and women dressed like beekeepers may be the norm in Europe. And such laws may actually be voted in. It's simple demographics.

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Originally Posted by floorpotato

Invasions can be by military occupation or immigration, the result is the same.

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Em, no. Invasions usually have political and economic goals, settlement is secondary. Invasions will change a country from the top, and often stops there, immigration works from the bottom of the power and social scale, and often stays there.

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Originally Posted by floorpotato

Muslims are not being allowed in out of kindness, but as a source of cheap labor for greedy businessmen.

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That certailny was historically true, but you'll find nowadays much is related to recognising family ties and the rights of settlers, as far as immigration from outside Europe is concerned.

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Originally Posted by stroller

Invasions usually have political and economic goals, settlement is secondary. Invasions will change a country from the top, and often stops there, immigration works from the bottom of the power and social scale, and often stays there.

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Good point. For the average native, life is nevertheless disrupted in both situations. Muslim control of Kosovo is a rare example of a Muslim migration leading to political power, so it does happen. I'm not against immigration per se, only against immigrants whose belief systems are incompatible with libertarian values. More than a few European Muslims were happy when Theo Van Gogh was killed.

I didn't find living in a Muslim neighborhood a "disruption" to ny life, rather an enrichment.
But this was 25 years ago in the UK. The vibes may have changed by now.

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Originally Posted by stroller

The vibes may have changed by now.

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Do you really think so?:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by stroller

"Western Europe" isn't a nation, and unlikely to become one in the next 30 yrs.
The demographics are there to support such sci-fi scenario.
It's a typically "American" theme, the dying out of "ethnic Europeans" and Islam becoming the dominant force is common subject on US political boards.
I reckon the influx from the new Eastern EU memberstates will play a key role in the future of Europe.

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I just used "Western Europe" in the title because it is more brief than "franceukgermanynetherlandsbelgiumspainportuga l." :)

Good point about the cheap labor supply from Eastern European countries migrating to the richer Western European nations. I can see the richer countries favoring these migrants to offset the influence of other immigrant groups.

The riots in the Paris suburbs reminded me of the ghettos in the US, where people live a completely different life from other Americans. Whereas the US acknowledged the problem and instituted aggressive affirmative action programs in the 60s, there were mass riots everywhere in France when the government tried to loosen their restrictive labor laws. THe intent of the law was to encourage more companies to take a risk and hire people from the Paris suburbs. If this simple law can not be implemented, how will the French ever address these problems?

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Originally Posted by stroller

I didn't find living in a Muslim neighborhood a "disruption" to ny life, rather an enrichment. But this was 25 years ago in the UK. The vibes may have changed by now.

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I admire your tolerance, but it does seem that relations are changing for the worse. Apparently, among British Muslims aged 16 to 24, 37 % would prefer to live under Sharia law in Britain and 36% think that Muslims converting to another religion should be punished by death. You can't have a functioning democracy if numbers like this continue to grow.

If it did happen it wouldn't be all bad. At least the young thugs who now control the streets of Europe might behave better under sharia law.