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  1. #26
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    We came across this dead mongoose on the dog walk today.



    I generally seem to find a lot of dead things when out and about... Isaan just seems to be that kind of place. I took a photo of the mongoose and thought little more about it, and it was only when I looked at the picture later I realised that it had been snared. This has really pissed me off because I used to keep ferrets which are very similar animals and make lovely pets, but more so... why just set a snare and then not check it?

    I get that this is Isaan and people still like to eat their 'jungle' food, despite an abundance of cheap street food, but FFS if you set a snare to catch an animal at least be bothered to check it and eat what you catch. I hate that something has been killed needlessly.

    It's the careless, uncaring, indiscriminate killing that really pisses me off here. On my dog walks I'm forever finding nets set to catch birds and bats that have been forgotten about, with dead creatures left rotting. I pull them down when I find them. I'm forever finding traps and snares on the ground for birds and rodents and I guess mongooses that are never checked. I trample them into the ground... but am very aware that one day someone may take umbrage. We had a gang of Surin labourers here a while back who waged warfare on our local bat colony living in a palm tree. They catapulted stones, threw up chunks of wood, set nets until the poor bats were wiped out... all for a morsel of food.

    It just pisses me off.

  2. #27
    Member Wakey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    We had a gang of Surin labourers here a while back who waged warfare on our local bat colony living in a palm tree. They catapulted stones, threw up chunks of wood, set nets until the poor bats were wiped out... all for a morsel of food.

    It just pisses me off.
    They probably started covid.

  3. #28
    Thailand Expat Saint Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    It just pisses me off.
    Agreed, the senselessness and waste of it.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealKW View Post
    waste of it.
    Not quite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    all for a morsel of food.

  5. #30
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    It is very sad given that human controlled livestock apparently comprises 10 times the biomass of all wild animals put together (I think that number is correct going from memory watching our wise elder David Attenborough in his biographical doco A Life On Earth).

    We need to start treating wild animals with more care and give them room to get on with it without human harrassment.

    The extinction event that started with modern humans spreading around the planet 50-100,000 years ago has already cost us a vast number of diverse species.

    Hope we can one day master the Jurassic Park sci-fi tech to bring some of them back.

  6. #31
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    I find it incredibly sad that wild animals are still relentlessly persecuted when there really is no excuse... even in the backwaters of Isaan people should know better. It's just not necessary.

    I think it a really sad indictment on the human race that we can do so much, yet do so little to prevent the extinction of so many threatened species. The rhino and elephant may well be extinct in the wild within a generation, not to mention a host of less well publicised species... how sad is that.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    I find it incredibly sad that wild animals are still relentlessly persecuted when there really is no excuse... even in the backwaters of Isaan people should know better. It's just not necessary.
    I would suggest the harvesting the rural Thais extract has minimal affect on rural "pest" population.

    My experience of Thai people obtained by living here for a few years and from visiting different parts of Thailand have suggested to me that Thai's view "wild" food, animals, crops, insects as easily procured and either "free" of greatly reduced in price from city stores or international specialists importers.

    In addition, they mostly have no knowledge of or desire for hams from Italy, cheeses from France, wines from Argentina .... There are certainly groups that must be seen at certain establishments, wearing the newest fashions, eating gourmet meals whilst drinking highly advertised top-selling drinks. Yes, even in Isaan.

    The ability to feed themselves or make a profit from "harvesting" wild foods, animals, insects, fruits, vegetables ...., is considered to be a plus. The facts that some leave forgotten wild food is not by design rather by the necessity to check ones traps efficiently. If each trap held something worth THB 1,000 they would be more conscientious.

    Recently we have made a few trips to local fruit farms where certain insects are abundant, possibly due to the insect's mating cycle. However, the harvesting group have a social, productive and cheerful time whilst collecting them. Once home they are cooked for eating themselves of for selling on to locals. Some are sent off to the local centres for shipping to other parts of Thailand and elsewhere.

    They appear to relish the seasonal and consistent abundance along with the harvest socialising.

    We had other threads about animals being bred for trophy hunters others regarding disappearing animal species and devastating ecological practises ...... I'm not sure that "the backwater Isaan people" are the targets to finger myself.

    But then my village is a rural Thai backwater, that has unobtrusive working democratic rule, an adequate working health system, a working to requirement education system and an unobtrusive working policing system, surrounded by virgin jungle, productive and profitable farms along with ample water and sunshine, so my mostly quiet home view, is possibly tainted.
    Last edited by OhOh; 28-02-2021 at 10:11 PM.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post

    In addition, they mostly have no knowledge of or desire of/for hams from Italy, cheeses from France, wines from Argentina ....

    .
    And why would they? By and large they're insular people with very little interest in or understanding of the world beyond their next plate of somtam.

    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    But then my village is a rural Thai backwater.... a working to requirement education system .
    Well, yes. Know your place, poor people.

  9. #34
    Thailand Expat armstrong's Avatar
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    Pretty much any working class area of any country couldn't give a shit about cheese and wine either.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by armstrong View Post
    any working class area of any country
    It appears that some, for reasons omitted believe it's a Thai thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    they're insular people with very little interest in or understanding of the world beyond their next plate of ....
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Know your place, poor people.
    Poor people cannot raise themselves to a higher level?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post


    Poor people cannot raise themselves to a higher level?
    Not when they're so severely handicapped by the system.

  12. #37
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Poor people cannot raise themselves to a higher level?
    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Not when they're so severely handicapped by the system.

    And a lack of successfull role models I believe can be influential.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    And a lack of successfull role models I believe can be influential.
    Well, you're not gonna get any role models if the system doesn't support upward mobility in the first place.

    It's a bit of a chicken and egg one in regards to your point, but on not much closer inspection it's pretty clear that one shamelessly precludes the other (the system).

    My new best mate Jeff may be along to explain further regarding the status quo in Thai society
    Last edited by hallelujah; 01-03-2021 at 01:35 AM.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    I think it a really sad indictment on the human race that we can do so much, yet do so little to prevent the extinction of so many threatened species.
    Economics, unless you solve the issue of a life being worth X vs pick your animal, or we start to value habitat more than agricultural land then nothing will change: take Creepy Hat as an example on monoculture and profit and how the Kraut lectures everyone from his hideaway in NZ having profited from farming in the 3rd world = smug twat.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    I would suggest the harvesting the rural Thais extract has minimal affect on rural "pest" population.

    My experience of Thai people obtained by living here for a few years and from visiting different parts of Thailand have suggested to me that Thai's view "wild" food, animals, crops, insects as easily procured and either "free" of greatly reduced in price from city stores or international specialists importers.

    The ability to feed themselves or make a profit from "harvesting" wild foods, animals, insects, fruits, vegetables ...., is considered to be a plus. The facts that some leave forgotten wild food is not by design rather by the necessity to check ones traps efficiently. If each trap held something worth THB 1,000 they would be more conscientious.
    I guess my point OhOh is the constant waste and uncaring attitude I see to life day after day. I have no problem at all with harvesting nature's bounty, I used to keep ferrets myself in the UK, but why set a snare, kill a mongoose but not bother to check it? If the mongoose was worth 1000 Baht and then it would have been used then makes it worse in my books. If you set a trap for an animal then check it, simple. Why leave up nets for birds and bats and leave them to rot? Why wipe out a whole bat colony just for a few snacks?

    If the mongoose had been eaten I would accept it as harvesting nature, although to be honest I still find it unnecessary with such an abundance of cheap market food (not imported foods) a few hundred metres away. But to leave these animals to die and rot isn't harvesting anything, it just shows a complete disregard for life in my books.

    I'm not singling out Isaan people for this, but this thread is about what I see daily in Isaan. I know for example, that the French and Italians shoot huge numbers of song birds every year and that pisses me off as well, as does the UK gassing badgers and leaving them to rot underground, but that's for another thread.
    Last edited by Mendip; 01-03-2021 at 08:23 AM.

  16. #41
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    I live right on the Wang River Mendip. It's a nice river and from the looks of it you would think you'd be able to catch some nice fish in it. That is not the case. The local Thai folks string loads of nets out and catch all the fry so nothing can grow to maturity. I have watched this one old guy do this for a long time. He only keeps the ones he thinks he can sell at the market for probably 25 bht. The rest of the dead ones he just shakes out into the water. It has always amazed me how you can have a river with virtually no aquatic life in it.

    I think in the case of the mongoose you pictured, I suspect the trapper set a few out. Got to the first one, it had something in it and that ended his day. It was either food for himself or something to sell at the market.

    I have asked my wife about this on occasion, she says most that do this are extremely poor and live very much day to day.

  17. #42
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    Perhaps you should get more views than on one old man. I see often quite a good catch either by people fishing for their living or by game fishers. The “fry” you mention is obviously pla patu that will not grow big, it’s for daily selling on many markets around, one of the staple food for people. And for our cat either, to the dogs’ envy.

    As of the Mendip’s remarks, one have to consider the local state of their culture and thinking, logic, how many centuries behind us.
    Last edited by Klondyke; 01-03-2021 at 10:40 AM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    it just shows a complete disregard for life in my books.
    I agree, I was trying to suggest some do have priorities that are wasteful of available resources, politely.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    I think in the case of the mongoose you pictured, I suspect the trapper set a few out. Got to the first one, it had something in it and that ended his day.
    Again I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    she says most that do this are extremely poor and live very much day to day.
    Some might recognise the number of traps that have to be set, on a daily basis, to achieve a particular outcome. Others may have the intention of visiting all their traps, but get distracted.

    There does appear to be a great deal of "Buddha will take care/decide the outcome" in all Thai society. Which is less prevalent in other societies.

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    Not when they're so severely handicapped by the system.
    Breaking moulds is not impossible. Whatever strata of society one is born into.

    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    And a lack of successfull role models I believe can be influential.
    Which are also increasingly being illustrated more widely. Accessible to far more than when I was a lad.

    What careers guidance did you receive, either from your school teachers or parents?

    Quote Originally Posted by hallelujah View Post
    if the system doesn't support upward mobility in the first place.
    One ensures one's own success or failure in life. Not IMHO, an ethereal entity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    how many centuries behind us
    Possibly becoming more enlightened earlier regarding the true meaning of life?
    Last edited by OhOh; 01-03-2021 at 10:28 AM.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    I find it incredibly sad that wild animals are still relentlessly persecuted when there really is no excuse... even in the backwaters of Isaan people should know better. It's just not necessary.

    I think it a really sad indictment on the human race that we can do so much, yet do so little to prevent the extinction of so many threatened species. The rhino and elephant may well be extinct in the wild within a generation, not to mention a host of less well publicised species... how sad is that.
    Interesting that the UK and others are reintroducing species that were once indigenous, up to sand including species at the top of trophic pyramids.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    And a lack of successfull role models I believe can be influential.
    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Which are also increasingly being illustrated more widely. Accessible to far more than when I was a lad.

    What careers guidance did you receive, either from your school teachers or parents?
    My Dad was in his latish 50's when I was conceived.

    My Mum had a major stroke when I was 12. She was lost to the Family after that.

    I didn't have any guidance, went through my wild patch, joined the YMCA (oh boy, I still hate that song), started running a YMCA youth club, did adventure camping and worked out the world for myself.

    Was selling newspapers when I was 12, mowing lawns when I was 14, cold calling the neighbourhood ... we (Mum and Dad) never owned a car.

    I used to live in the breezeway between the kitchen, toilet and the back door. My clothes cupboard was a couple of old suitcases Dad bought from the Salvos and slid under my bed.

    WE WERE POOR, but I never felt unhappy.

    Pocket money was 50c a week.


    I don't care for luxuries, nothing is wasted in my life. I eat the crusts from the toast which my kids ask me to cut off.
    At the Thai Farm, nothing is wasted there also.
    It's a natural mentality for me.

    But, from my childhood I have no material regrets. I learnt the value of money as a child/teenager.

    I put myself through University. I worked a full-time job, 3 part-times jobs and completed my Uni with an (honors level) Business Degree.

    All I wished was for a younger Dad who could have watched me play Footy and a Mum who wasn't stolen away before I was a teenager.


    But, OhOh, to answer your question, I worked out this world myself.
    Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago ...


  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    I worked out this world myself.
    Thanks for your post.

    More a "life in a day" but who knows where it will meander too.

    My own day of reckoning was in my 16th year.

    My choice was, stay on at school and take the A level/University route or accept a job offer at a local structural engineering design office. I chose the latter. Why, because at my interview with the company boss and during my tour of the office the staff appeared to be having a cracking good time. My parents were disappointed but accepted my choice. My older brother was already on the A Level route.

    Whilst working I went to school one day a week, called Day Release on a building orientated course. After a few years and gaining a couple of certificates I did go 'Up North' to Leeds for further education/stimulation/certificates of competence and a rollicking good time. All leading to a portfolio of skills which carried me through 60+ years, a few mental and physical scars sustained but climbing trees now a leave to the locals now.

    My parents gradually became more "wealthy" in a working class way. Enjoying holidays in various parts of the world and presiding over Christmas celebrations. Both lived well into their 60's and 70's.

    Having 3 brothers and a sister, along with many Aunts, Uncles and cousins has meant our group family has continued to expand. Meeting once or twice a year, summer time and pre-Christmas, has kept us pretty close. It used to be picnics and beach get togethers although the larger summer meet-up seems to have drifted to a pub meal and afternoon gossip event.

    Grand children are beginning to appear lately. I flitted around the world on business/emigrant status and now have "retired" here in the land of sun kissed beaches and colourful temples.

    Retirement to me means being driven by the crops seasonal requirements rather than quarterly numbers/deciding which bar or restaurant to visit tonight. Along with keeping, her who must be obeyed, suitably creamed, potioned up and trinket adorned.

    Winding up some TD posters keeps me amused.




    One down, 292 to go. (Active Members 294)
    Last edited by OhOh; 02-03-2021 at 12:14 PM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    If the mongoose had been eaten I would accept it as harvesting nature, although to be honest I still find it unnecessary with such an abundance of cheap market food (not imported foods) a few hundred metres away. But to leave these animals to die and rot isn't harvesting anything, it just shows a complete disregard for life in my books.
    Does anyone actually eat mongoose? It probably isn't poisonous but I have never heard of it being eaten - and I have seen a lot of Chinese markets.

    I asked the Isaan gf about this. She knows what a mongoose is and she claims never to have heard of anyone eating mongoose.

    The mongoose has a reputation for eating venomous snakes and various rodents. I'd be delighted to have a whole family of the things patrolling my garden.

    Who on earth, even amongst the poorly educated, would want to snare a mongoose?
    Last edited by Shutree; 05-03-2021 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Edited to say I spoke to the gf.

  23. #48
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    Shutree, we have quite a few mongooses (mongeese?) around here and you can see their runs in the long grass so I guess they're quite easy to snare. I've seen several people targeting them although I can't imagine they taste that good.

    I used to keep ferrets and I thought they were the same family (mustelids) but apparently ferrets have a feline background and mongooses have a canine background so they are quite different.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Who on earth, even amongst the poorly educated, would want to snare a mongoose?
    Shutree, you are assuming the mongoose was the target instead of being an unfortunate mistake, the fact it was left suggests the latter IMO.

  25. #50
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    No Strigils, these are targeted. I spoke to one guy who was laying snares (which I later trampled) although admittedly I didn't understand a lot of what he was on about.

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