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Thread: An Isaan Pond

  1. #151
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    You just need to leave that golden carp a few years

    An Isaan Pond-giant-gold-fish1-jpg

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    Another one for you NPT... caught this yesterday and have no idea what it i? Probably about a pound or so.

    I sneaked this one back as well.


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    ^ looks like a carp in pattern, fins, and the split tail
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  4. #154
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    ^ ^^ look like a common carp

  5. #155
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    Looks like silver or common bream


    However, they call it here pla tapien

  6. #156
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    ^ I know bream from the UK and this was much broader across the 'shoulders?'...

    Maybe a carp... but the mouth was very much upturned, like a rudd in the UK.

    It also made strange squeaking noises while out of the water. I'll investigate further.

    One thing I did notice... a chunk had been taken out of it's lower tail fin. I put in four pla chon a few years ago to help control pla nin fry numbers, but they could be huge by now. I've also seen a couple of small fingerling pla chon in the margins, so they are obviously breeding. I think they could be getting out of control.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    Another one for you NPT... caught this yesterday and have no idea what it i? Probably about a pound or so.

    I sneaked this one back as well.

    Looks like a java barb, the same one as we identified last October in this thread (posts 104 and 105): Plaa dta-piyan. ปลาตะเพียน.
    An Isaan Pond
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  8. #158
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    Skip to 1m 30s and to 4mins.

    Nev has style

  9. #159
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    ^^ Thanks Nev... I really should remember my own posts!

  10. #160
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    We've been taking a lot of fish out of the pond lately so I thought it was time for a bit of restocking...

    There's a place in Korat that sells all kinds of fish. So, a couple of bags of pla nin and a couple of bags of pla tabtim. It's only really the tilapia that I eat... the wife will eat anything that swims but I have no love of eating bony carp and catfish.



    Although anything is for sale here.



    And this is why I don't pay too much attention to the interior of my car.



    Everything has to be thoroughly inspected of course. After 20 minutes or so to equalise the water temperature, in they went.

    The next time you see these fish, they'll hopefully be wrapped in batter in the 'Dinner' thread!


  11. #161
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    I was fishing in the pond on Sunday and caught nothing... this has never happened before. Also, I noticed a lot of fish sluggishly swimming just under the surface, hugging the margins of the pond and making no attempt to hide. Many were half on their sides.

    On Monday morning there were 6 dead fish floating on the pond.

    The only thing I could really think of was oxygen depletion. Our pond is always low in oxygen being a bit overcrowded and without adequate circulation, but this had never happened before. I've noticed many times that early in the morning fish will be at the surface gulping air, which is apparently common, since the O2 content in pond water decreases overnight due to there being no photosynthesis by plants or algae. I tested the pH of the water and it was a lot higher than the suggested safe range of 6 to 9 for pond fish and appeared to be somewhere between 10 and 11. Some research showed that the pH of pond water can get too high due to an algal bloom, with the increased photosynthesis removing carbon dioxide from the water, thus making it more alkaline. An algal bloom can also cause low oxygen due to dead algae rotting and using up the O2.

    Everything pointed to an algal bloom causing low oxygen. I have no idea why it has happened now as it's not particularly hot and the pond looks no 'greener' than it ever does. But something had to be done.

    My first thought was to pump out all the bottom mud and add new water as fast as possible. I didn't want to stir up the water and mix the even lower oxygenated deeper water with the higher oxygenated surface water as I thought this could make the problem worse.



    Of course, some idiot had to walk around the pond, keeping the pump just off the bottom to suck up the mud. A quick test to get it all working... and at the surface the water (exiting the hosing) looked quite green but not too bad.



    But once the pump was lowered to the bottom it found thick muddy sludge.





    Can't say this was the most enjoyable day I've ever had. Up to my knees in mud, the occasional catfish squirming between me legs and that pump got heavy after a couple of hours... bubbles of gas also constantly came up from the bottom. THE bottom, not MY bottom!



    And all the while the occasional dead fish floated up...



    And the garden was a right mess at the end of it all. I thought the sludge would make good fertiliser but there was just too much of it. In the end most went over the wall. Everywhere is now covered by muddy dog footprints.


  12. #162
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    After doing all that and lowering the water level by maybe 30cm, I set the hose running to refill the pond. This water source is straight from the local bore hole with no pump or holding tanks. It's only used for watering the garden and filling the pool or pond. I reckon the pond should be full again in 3 or 4 days... will add maybe 200 Baht to or water bill!

    I also rigged up the pump to be just under the surface with a short hose, the idea being to spray across the surface of the pond to add oxygen.



    I think by the end of yesterday we had lost around 30 fish. Sadly they were all big pla nin and pla tabtim. Could have made a lot of fish suppers! Some research found that it is usually the bigger fish that die first when face with low oxygenated water, so everything suggested that was the cause, rather than any disease or parasite. That had occurred to me as I restocked the pond with small pla nin last week, and it's always a worry that you'll introduce a disease when restocking.

    Around 8pm last night I turned off the pump... thought the noise maybe too much for the neighbours overnight.

    That was a mistake.

    This morning there were around 50 dead fish floating on the pond. They were everywhere you looked...



    And a lot of half dead fish swimming on their sides just under the surface...



    This was very sad to see. The gardener filled two buckets with dead fish we netted out of the pond. The reason for two buckets? He smelt each fish, waggled it a bit and looked to see of the gills were bright red (indicating freshness) and then put any fish he deemed fresh enough for eating into one bucket. The rest, for burying, went into another bucket. He reckoned the 'fresh' ones would be OK to make fish sauce and the like. Call me conservative, but I've never fancied eating a dead fish found floating on a pond.

    I must say, that if ever I was going to be tempted to try pla ra, this has put me off for life. But one thing's for sure, with this number of fish classed as 'good enough for pla ra', it's gonna be a stinky neighbourhood for the next couple of days.



    Anyway, I fiddled with the pump hose to get maximum 'splash' across the surface of the pond and since this morning (fingers crossed) we've had no more fatalities. I'm going to keep the pump on overnight tonight, and for a few more nights yet, bugger the neighbours... they can just shut their windows. The research showed that the oxygen level in pond water gets even lower at night anyway, so it's more important to have the pump on at night than during the day time..



    And just for good measure... I read on the net that some guy brought down the pH of his pond water using white vinegar... and after losing around 80 fish I'm happy to try anything... so a couple of bottles went missing from the kitchen this morning.



    Seems strange to add vinegar to the fish before they get to the plate!

  13. #163
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    Did you check pH?

  14. #164
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    ^ Yeah, but I only had a pool testing kit that had almost run out of phenol red. I reckon it was about pH 10, so way too alkaline. Hence adding the vinegar!

    I've ordered another test kit from Lazada that should hopefully arrive by Thursday.

    From what I can gather oxygen levels and pH are clisely associated.

  15. #165
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    Instead of spending your monthly salary for vinegar you can buy a gallon of HCL - Hydrochloric acid or H2SO4 - Sulphuric acid, both are used for lowering pH at swimming pools - what the pool shops do not like to hear, they better sell so called pH Minus, what is the same but x-times more expensive... (Add the acid into water in small portions, not in opposite way...)

  16. #166
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    And you can buy Kadaat pH at a stationery shop - if you are lucky they have got it...

  17. #167
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    Mate, I'd bet your left testicle it's low oxygen.

    Do you not run your fountain pump? Ever?

    And yes, O2 saturation is typically just before Dawn.

    As for an algae bloom, your fish would usually eat this as food ... if they had enough oxygen.


    PH has to be monitored, but the Thai Farmers only usually do that (if they worry about it at all) after they Drain the Swamp

    For a quick fix, just set your pump up to draw the water from near the bottom of the pond and to set the other end to shoot out into the air from your pier. The falling water will be sufficiently oxygenated for the fish.


    As for the dead fish, if you are in Isaan ... salt them and jar them and they will sell like hot cakes!


    Or try this ...




    If you have an air compressor, then this ...

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  18. #168
    Thailand Expat lom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    you can buy a gallon of HCL
    Every hardware shop sells V-Clean which is popular among cement truck drivers for cleaning the trucks tombola.
    It is a light green fluid, HCL, and I think its concentration is around 40% so be careful with it!
    Sold in plastic tank of 5L for around 250 baht.
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    Mate, I'd bet your left testicle it's low oxygen.

    Do you not run your fountain pump? Ever?

    And yes, O2 saturation is typically just before Dawn.

    As for an algae bloom, your fish would usually eat this as food ... if they had enough oxygen.


    PH has to be monitored, but the Thai Farmers only usually do that (if they worry about it at all) after they Drain the Swamp

    For a quick fix, just set your pump up to draw the water from near the bottom of the pond and to set the other end to shoot out into the air from your pier. The falling water will be sufficiently oxygenated for the fish.


    As for the dead fish, if you are in Isaan ... salt them and jar them and they will sell like hot cakes!
    I'm glad you saw this Dave... I was hoping you'd have some advice. Green very much owed... can't do it just now.

    I'm also glad you're only betting with my left testicle, it leaves me with something in reserve just in case it's something else...

    I think it must be low oxygen... all the evidence points that way... it's only the pla nin and pla tabtim that have been dying, the catfish and other assorted species seem unaffected. Also, it's only the bigger fish. If it was a toxicity issue you would expect fatalities across the board, species and size.

    But... why now? It's not particularly hot (it's been an awful lot hotter) and we have increased use of the waterfall pump (fountain pump) lately...

    And that I think could be the problem. I've also read now that it's bad to mix the deoxygenated lower water with the higher O2 surface water, which is exactly what our waterfall does. The intake for the waterfall is at the bottom of the pond.

    My feeling is either the recent increased use of the waterfall coupled with an algal bloom has depleted the oxygen in the pond, and also caused a high pH level (although to be fair I've never previously measured the pH so have nothing to compare the current approx 10 to). With hindsight, I'd also noticed some scum on the surface lately, which apparently is another sign of an algal bloom.

    I also spoke to soon... we lost another 4 fish this afternoon... all nice sized pla nin. My hope is that they'd died previously but later floated to the top after their stomachs filled with gas. They must have been a bit old as the gardener didn't even consider them, not even for his pla ra!



    Apart from these 4 latest losses, the rest of the fish now seem to be swimming around more naturally and with more energy. Tonight I'm leaving the pump on to maintain the aeriation, but have had to moderate it a bit to keep the noise down in deference to the neighbours (they are very nice to Anna and Vigo). We shall see what the story is tomorrow morning...

    I guess it's like anything... there's an awful lot more to it than first meets the eye. It takes something like this to first appreciate what's involved... a bit like when our chickens first got hit by foul cholera. We learnt and moved on. One thing I will do, is make some kind of permanent aeriation system (apart from the waterfall), once this crisis is over. Many thanks for those youtube clips... and what a cute chick... does she come round to install personally?

    And anyway, WTF else is there to do every day in Korat!!?
    Last edited by Mendip; 25-02-2020 at 06:31 PM.

  20. #170
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    Shit...What a nightmare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    why now? It's not particularly hot (it's been an awful lot hotter) and we have increased use of the waterfall pump (fountain pump) lately...
    Could they have been poisoned due to the noise? the Thai are good at that.

    Test the water for nitrate, nitrite, ammonia as well as PH. Do you have any cctv motion cameras on the pond?

    If you transfer fish to water 1.5ph higher, it will wipe out 50% of your fish, 2.2ph will kill them all, i just read.

  21. #171
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    ^ I don't think it was noise... but certainly an option. Our goldfish in the living room tank have survived the missus's Thai comedy shows for years so I think they can handle mindless noise.

    Nitrate/nitrite/ammonia... to my understanding all gets reflected in a high pH. I'm still learning... but to test for everything can get unfeasible. Everything seems to be connected... low O2, high pH etc etc. It's a minefield. And no, no CCTV on the pond... I tried to get the ones you recommended for the squirrels but Kerry let me down again.

    And as for the pH fluctuations... that's what I've read. TBH after 6 years or so of doing this I'm amazed we've never had problems before. And this is tliapia... wait until you start keeping koi...

  22. #172
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    This pond was pumped out today, being for many months completely covered by the green duck weed. Nevertheless, there were always fish in the water, fished out, never any dead ones appeared. Still today in the last water were few ones, captured swiftly by a large varan - water monitor, unfortunately no snapshot.

    An Isaan Pond-img_20200225_162708-jpg


    If your pH is 10, then this could be the cause - beside the low oxygen. Didn't you provide some concreting lately? And insufficient time for hardening?

  23. #173
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    I feel for you, Mendip

    I had the same problem with my smaller pond.
    There is no relax time having a beer, and watching the fish gasping.

    I tried filtering the water through barley straws; got a lot of algae out, but gave me work at the same time, and we can't have that.

    Other advice was to throw charcoal in the water. Even shops will give you the silent nod if you ask if it works.

    I ended up with making a small creek, filled with small stones, around the pond.

    Works; algae hates running water. So they died, and ate the oxygene when rotting. Back to the gasping

    In the fall I bought a small acvarium pump, with 5 meters of hose and a "lava stone" at the end.

    I immediately saw the fish taking a "shower" in the bubbles. Works.

    Has been running since

    But I'm gonna make a longer creek, when the sun returns.


    Btw: Denmark got all the storms and rain that belongs in south western England. We are flooded

    Have fun in Korat

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by helge View Post
    Btw: Denmark got all the storms and rain that belongs in south western England. We are flooded
    Helge, its where i live and whilst we are not flooded the ground is 100% saturated, any rain and it puddles and in some cases small floods - there's more on the way...as i sit here we have hail out of nowhere too. More like winters i remember when young just not as cold.
    Last edited by NamPikToot; 26-02-2020 at 01:31 AM.

  25. #175
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    You stated in an earlier post that your pond was overcrowded which will lead to excessive fish poop which creates high nitrogen levels. This with your algae bloom is a deadly combination. After going thru a few die offs like yours I started removing the bottom sludge periodically. You need to keep your water oxygenated by running your fountain. Also if you had a uv light in line with your pump system you could use that to control your algae blooms (very effective), you don't have leave it on full time. I think your on the right track CO2/Nitrogen problem.

    If running the pump is too noisy get a few small fountains and pumps to run at night. The splashing noise is very relaxing. Your pond is huge compared to mine.

    When I did concrete work on my pond. The fish started jumping out of the water (breeching) like trying to escape the water. Giving me the impression there might be lye in the concrete. So I don't think you have this problem. You may want to address your fish population issue. Most of the stinky/slime sludge on the bottom is fish shit/shite and rotting plant waste.

    This is the classic case example why ponds become a money/time pit. You have react immediately, your on your own, operating under best guess theory and will be just another in long trial and error learning process. More of these dilemmas to come! Good Luck!
    Last edited by CalEden; 26-02-2020 at 01:42 AM.

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