Motorcycle Dyno and Tuning

**Barty** · 24-09-2013, 09:08 PM

Does anyone here know of a shop with a dyno that can do tuning?

I have a Victory Cross Country and I am thinking of installing a set of cams, fuel controller and a few other performance parts. Any suggestions on who I can contact in Bangkok or the surrounding area?

Thanks,

Barty

**TonyBKK** · 24-09-2013, 11:15 PM

Wow, a Victory in Thailand? Never seen one here yet. Good on ya!

Dirt Shop on Onnut have a late model Dyno and base runs start from only 600 baht.

http://www.dirtshopthailand.com

I've heard that "Jammer" off Chok Chai 4 also has a dyno, but I've never been there...

API out near Fashion Island also have a dyno, again, never been.

Best of luck! Let us know how it goes!

**Marmite the Dog** · 24-09-2013, 11:40 PM

Don't all the Honda Big Wings have a dyno?

**Gazza** · 25-09-2013, 12:00 AM

I remember seeing one at Red Baron a few years ago. Give them a call.

**Bettyboo** · 25-09-2013, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Barty

Victory Cross Country

I wondered what it was...

**Barty** · 25-09-2013, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Gazza

I remember seeing one at Red Baron a few years ago. Give them a call.

I was a bit reluctant to use Red Baron due to this post (DYNO TUNE where) by peterpan a few years ago. Does anyone know if they have changed their dyno since then?

**Barty** · 25-09-2013, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Wow, a Victory in Thailand? Never seen one here yet. Good on ya!

Dirt Shop on Onnut have a late model Dyno and base runs start from only 600 baht.

http://www.dirtshopthailand.com

I've heard that "Jammer" off Chok Chai 4 also has a dyno, but I've never been there...

API out near Fashion Island also have a dyno, again, never been.

Best of luck! Let us know how it goes!

Thanks Tony. You wouldn't happen to know a mechanic that can handle tuning on a dyno by any chance?

**TonyBKK** · 25-09-2013, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by Gazza

I remember seeing one at Red Baron a few years ago. Give them a call.

Technically speaking, the rig they have at Red Baron is ancient and quite limited in function; really not equivalent to a modern dyno and is not appropriate for tuning purposes...

**TonyBKK** · 25-09-2013, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Barty

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Wow, a Victory in Thailand? Never seen one here yet. Good on ya!

Dirt Shop on Onnut have a late model Dyno and base runs start from only 600 baht.

http://www.dirtshopthailand.com

I've heard that "Jammer" off Chok Chai 4 also has a dyno, but I've never been there...

API out near Fashion Island also have a dyno, again, never been.

Best of luck! Let us know how it goes!

Thanks Tony. You wouldn't happen to know a mechanic that can handle tuning on a dyno by any chance?

Khun Bai and the head mechanic at Dirt Shop were both trained by certified techs from Dynojet, Malaysia and can most certainly help you with your tuning needs.

Here's Khun Bai helping me tune one of my ER6n's a while back-

Their dyno is a few years old now, but still top of the line-

**peterpan** · 25-09-2013, 04:28 AM

Dyno jet are Phony's, they are inertia dynos only, made to fool dumb cvnts.
Not proper brake dynos. Inertia dynos ony rely of bringing a spinning drum up to a max speed, and then measuring the acceleration only. Its not a proper Dyno where Torque and Horsepower are measured by inputs over a range of inputs.

Only one proper dyno I have ever seen, imported by a Guy called Dominic, it was a Aust made dyno, you could measure over a full range and more importance hold it at full chat. Sadly I dunno where Dominic is now. Like many people here, myself included.
Dom got in withe a bunch of thieves and was ripped off, he couldn't work with them and took off some where else,

**peterpan** · 25-09-2013, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Gazza

I remember seeing one at Red Baron a few years ago. Give them a call.

The dyno at Baron was a proper dyno, but it was an old 2nd hand machine, the brake roller was old and worn, do it couldn't handle the power out put of a modern engine.

I used it once, but after being covered if tire rubber I realized that was not a solution, my previously new tyre was being shredded before my eyes.

**FailSafe** · 25-09-2013, 06:25 AM

I ended up going with a canned tune for my PC-V and ECU (for which I have the tuning harness and software) as I didn't trust the tuners in LOS to work with a bike they weren't very familiar with. I considered using the Dirt Shop, but I sent a video of a Dirt Shop dyno run to a friend in the States who is a professional motorcycle mechanic and race tuner as I wanted his opinion of their set-up- he's not a big fan of Dynojet as he feels it gives inaccurate HP ratings due to the ease by which it can be manipulated, and this is his reply (in line with what peterpan said):

I watched the "DynoJunk" tune session. Dynojunk has done a real disservice to motorcycle tuning. Tuning an engine to residual oxygen in the exhaust stream in ridiculous. So many factors affect the oxygen in the exhaust stream.
Measuring left over oxygen in the exhaust is a pretty easy way to meet emission standards, but not power. The DynoJunk guys are trained to do it that way, so you can only blame them for not thinking about how things really work.
A motorcycle that uses O2 sensors to monitor the fuel injection has to go into closed loop to make any adjustments, it has to be at a somewhat stable rpm to get good info. Otherwise, it is using look up tables.

The way we (I) do it is, I measure torque applied to the eddie current brake load cell. I run the thing at a bunch of throttle positions and through the useable RPM range (depends on the tuning software that is being used, i.e. Power Commander, Screaming Eagle, Tune boy, etc.) and see what its power is. Give it some fuel and see if it makes more or less power, keep going until it makes less power, a lot of times, they need to be leaner, then go back to where it made its best power. I monitor O2, CO, CO2 and HC just as a bit of a guide to give me a hint of the way to go. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, IS TO START EACH RUN AT THE THE SAME ENGINE TEMPERATURE! Most seem to run best around 190~195 degrees. Harley's at somewhere around 200 degrees ( I have the exact temp written on my dyno wall ).
When I find out what the optimal water temp. , or at least close temp is, I read the voltage output at the engine water temp sensor. It is always around .500VDC +-. It is much quicker and more accurate than using the motorcycles temp gauge. If you ever have the opportunity to try it, you would be amazed how fast the engine water temp can go up and down.

It takes some time, thought, a bit of skill and the desire to do it right.

Last year, 2012, I worked for the team that won the Daytona 200. I kept telling them to get the bike on a real dyne, not DynoJunk, they did it and it showed! The little fucker Joey, lead out of the chicane, all the way to the finish, the pack behind him should have gobbled him up in a massive draft pass, they didn't. That thing was fast, built by a couple of guys in a basement in Georgia.

So think about it. What is a better way to tune, a few seconds sampling left over oxygen, or measuring actual torque and manipulating the fuel and timing to give it more torque and just use O2, CO2. CO and HC as a bit of a guide. Ignition timing, cam timing and fuel effect the oxygen in the exhaust system.

Oh, the all mighty horse power is computed by the software from torque and RPM. Torque times RPM divided by 5252.

Harley is onto something by reading the spark plug ionization. That and reading or computing in cylinder pressure would be the way to go.
Imagine you could monitor peak cylinder pressure and tune it to max pressure that generates the most power!

I could go on but, some Dynojunk lover will just get more offended.

**Jesus Jones** · 25-09-2013, 10:39 AM

So that'll be a no then Ted!

**Barty** · 26-09-2013, 10:26 AM

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

**TonyBKK** · 03-10-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by peterpan

Dyno jet are Phony's, they are inertia dynos only, made to fool dumb cvnts.
Not proper brake dynos. Inertia dynos ony rely of bringing a spinning drum up to a max speed, and then measuring the acceleration only. Its not a proper Dyno where Torque and Horsepower are measured by inputs over a range of inputs.

^ That's complete nonsense mate.

Simple physics:

Force = Mass x Acceleration
Work = Force x Distance
Power = Work / Time

A dynamometer is a device that measures force and power. Doesn't matter if it's an inertia dyno or a brake dyno, they both measure the same thing: The wheel of the bike spins the dyno drums, and the computer measures the speed.

The computer records the RPM of the engine and calculates the acceleration of the dyno drums by continuous measurements of their speed and the time.

Bottom line, a brake dynamometer is no more effective at calculating horsepower and torque than an inertia dynamometer. Anyone who tells you otherwise might be trying to sell you something

**TonyBKK** · 03-10-2013, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Tuning an engine to residual oxygen in the exhaust stream in ridiculous.

^ Um, that's not how a dynojet dynamometer works... What vid did your friend watch?

**peterpan** · 09-10-2013, 08:10 AM

Tony, I have used Dynocrap, and proper brake dynos.
Completely different results on either. of you want peak power, maybe the dynocrap does the job. But i used the machine for a ZX1o R, it was a pure race bike, where it mid range power and torque was the thing we needed.

So for real world use a proper dyno measuring real world power.
Not just a peak power out put at full chat, wasn't really what was needed. If you want a fancy piece of paper to show ya mates, Dynocrap does the job.

But if you want to tune your bike for optimum output over the power range. you need a proper real world dyno.
Ask a decent race experience mechanic what they use to tune their bikes with, not a drag racer, where peak power over an instant is all that's needed. Chalk and cheese Tony.

**peterpan** · 09-10-2013, 08:18 AM

In fact if you want a cheap dyno, crap model, the exdynocrap has been floating around Pattaya for 15 yrs for sale, no takers yet.
Reminded me old hands what was his name? owned an asian racing team and a garage slot out at Bira, although I think he's dead now.

**FailSafe** · 09-10-2013, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Tuning an engine to residual oxygen in the exhaust stream in ridiculous.

^ Um, that's not how a dynojet dynamometer works... What vid did your friend watch?

The video yankee99 posted of The Dirt Shop dynoing his bike.

Sorry, Tony, but I'm going to have to go with what my guy says over your opinion- I've been pretty skeptical of what you have to say since you told me (completely without any hard facts) that my bike was restricted from Kawi Thailand (I thought you knew what you were talking about and spent a lot of pointless time chasing down the fact that you were wrong)- I can't be bothered to do it again.

**TonyBKK** · 10-10-2013, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Tuning an engine to residual oxygen in the exhaust stream in ridiculous.

^ Um, that's not how a dynojet dynamometer works... What vid did your friend watch?

The video yankee99 posted of The Dirt Shop dynoing his bike.

Sorry, Tony, but I'm going to have to go with what my guy says over your opinion- I've been pretty skeptical of what you have to say since you told me (completely without any hard facts) that my bike was restricted from Kawi Thailand (I thought you knew what you were talking about and spent a lot of pointless time chasing down the fact that you were wrong)- I can't be bothered to do it again.

Um dude, I didn't TELL you the ZX14R is restricted, I asked if it was restricted, but whatever bro, you are welcome to believe whatever you want

**FailSafe** · 10-10-2013, 08:46 AM

Uh, dude, I just read your post again, and you did say it was restricted- as I said, at the time I thought you knew what you were talking about:

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Are you getting it from Kawasaki, Thailand (restricted) or from Red Baron, Full Power US Spec?

**TonyBKK** · 10-10-2013, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Uh, dude, I just read your post again, and you did say it was restricted- as I said, at the time I thought you knew what you were talking about:

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Are you getting it from Kawasaki, Thailand (restricted) or from Red Baron, Full Power US Spec?

Yes, because at the time (pre-sale), Kawaski, Thailand only had the US spec ZX14R as their demo bike (pic below) and believed that the model they would sell in Thailand would be restricted. (Hell, they didn't even know what color(s) would be offered until weeks before the official launch). Thank you for looking into it and clarifying the matter

**FailSafe** · 10-10-2013, 09:22 AM

^

So now you did tell me it was restricted through Kawi Thailand and you're changing your position...

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but there were already several 2013 14Rs in Thailand at that point (there was one on the floor at Real Motosports, among other places), not only the green 2012.

In fact, on the GT Rider thread (which I found later), Linds confirmed in December (months before my thread) that it was full-power, and you posted on that thread after his response.

Own your comment or don't, but the fact is that is caused me a lot of unnecessary effort to confirm it was unrestricted- I was sure it was before ordering it, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt as you seemed to have decent connections to Kawi over here.

**TonyBKK** · 10-10-2013, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

^

So now you did tell me it was restricted through Kawi Thailand and you're changing your position...

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but there were already several 2013 14Rs in Thailand at that point (there was one on the floor at Real Motosports, among other places), not only the green 2012.

In fact, on the GT Rider thread (which I found later), Linds confirmed in December (months before my thread) that it was full-power, and you posted on that thread after his response.

Own your comment or don't, but the fact is that is caused me a lot of unnecessary effort to confirm it was unrestricted- I was sure it was before ordering it, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt as you seemed to have decent connections to Kawi over here.

Pedantic indeed

, c'mon dude, I think I was pretty clear, wasn't I?

at the time (pre-sale), Kawaski, Thailand only had the US spec ZX14R as their demo bike (pic below) and believed that the model they would sell in Thailand would be restricted.

In more exciting news it sounds like Kwacka, Thailand might be offering the newly updated 2014 ZX14R here soon!

**FailSafe** · 10-10-2013, 09:52 AM

^

At what time? I ordered my bike in March (the thread was started on the 27th), months after the bike was available in LOS- you're referring to December, which isn't relevant (and you posted on a thread which had the proper info on GT-Rider previous to your post on my thread- the post on GTR was directed towards you personally)- I'm referring to the time of your post on TD, which is relevant.

If you got it wrong, fine- I'm not saying there was malice on your part- but now you're trying to weasel out of it, which is lame.

As far as the 2014 goes, they're only taking orders for an as-yet-unknown color at the same price as the 2013- there's no info anywhere on the one that might come with the Ohlins unit.

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