Why?Originally Posted by supernovadw
Some gypo ring has collected a heap of damaged and/or stolen cars and sent them on a boat to Asia to dump for profit.
Why?Originally Posted by supernovadw
Some gypo ring has collected a heap of damaged and/or stolen cars and sent them on a boat to Asia to dump for profit.
If you think I am trolling then that's cool, think what you want, I'm simply making a thread about the possibility of buying a car with no paperwork and was asking for peoples thoughts, sorry about that
What fascinated me is that I was always under the impression that used cars could not be imported to Thailand so cannot understand how this made it here, you could not simply send it on a boat and that be it.
You've said that a couple of times and it is wrong.Originally Posted by supernovadw
You cannot import used cars into Thailand, but many others can.
Why would you buy a car without proper paperwork in the UK when it's a fairly simple process for a legitimate owner to obtain a replacement?
Having had a car stolen in the US and a bike stolen in Thailand (only a Wave, but it was brand-new) I have a special contempt for people who will basically work in conjunction with possible thieves (in essence becoming a 'fence') to turn a quick buck- they see dollar signs (or see a way to own a vehicle they otherwise couldn't obtain) and become willing to engage in shady practices at what is most likely someone else's expense.
I have a family connection in the auto parts importing business in Thailand- I've been told that if you find a vehicle with missing or dodgy paperwork in LOS, you can be virtually certain it was brought in to the country illegally and was very likely stolen from somewhere else- there are a lot of people who make a living doing it- it's pretty obvious something is wrong with your potential 'deal', and you really shouldn't have to post asking the question.
If you knew this was a stolen vehicle but could be assured of making money on it without being caught, would you still be willing to engage in this deal? It seems like making money is your primary concern, when the provenance of the vehicle should be of the most importance.
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
HST
The irony is that the cars have to be cut into a minimum of 3 pieces to be imported under the "spares" tariff. So many times a perfectly decent motor has a 1 foot section cut from the middle of it and is put back together (cut and shut) once in Thailand. Cut n Shut are'nt known to be to tasty from the get go, but couple that with being welded back together by a 12 year old kid from burma with his "My first welding kit" - best left to utter mugs looking for glory.Originally Posted by supernovadw
Before they tampered with car imports and closed some loopholes to open others it was a bitch, but pretty straightforward with a connected Thai up front to import cars from the UK, and esp Japan.
But there was no need to cut them in half, just dismantle, engine and chassis in separate containers headed for different addresses, pay customs and a load of other extras including luxury tax of 650k where applicable, have LPG fitted or pay for a bypass, get it tested or pay for a bypass, have your Thai deal with a string of tests and checks and envelopes, and when you have a sheaf of the right paperwork it could be registered.
Another thing you might consider if you know it's an illegal car, either a nicked import or otherwise not properly registered, and if you have trusted as in trusted connections, is to buy the car and then have it confiscated by the police.
Sounds droll, but then the car is put up for auction, and guess what - not even Thai police are allowed to sell an illegal car, so it goes to auction only after properly registered with support paperwork. Iow, they do your legwork, new lamps for old, and now you put in your pre-agreed pre-auction offer to take possession of a legal car. Note also that (as of a few months ago though probably same now) the informant for a car confiscation gets 30% bounty on the auction price.
Sounds easy, but lots of potholes so a case of who rather than what you know.
Note: Luxury tax is variable, so you could get away with a far lower amount than you should legally pay, but when it comes for license renewal they're likely to point out that your tax paid doesn't match the value of the vehicle on their charts, and now you are on a bureaucratic ride to hell.
Iow, you could buy a perfectly legal car with full paperwork, and still end up with serious issues if the vendor/importer decided to save money by cutting corners and to hell with whoever buys it.
Could you just clarify for us how you would go about this?Originally Posted by supernovadw
That is, taking a car out of Thailand which has no green book.
Could you provide me a link to where I said I have a fake green book?
I think you will find that I said I have photocopies of a green book, but no physical green book.
For me, having the correct import invoices, the correct docs that show import duty has been paid is enough. I'm happy to ride my bike on the road with this. Many do, many don't.
All the fake stuff that came with my bike has been removed and tossed aside, the existence of these fake docs and items does not equate to it being stolen, only somebody of limited intelligence would make that leap.
Your claim that I am happy to purchase stolen property is wrong and you should cease making that kind of accusation.
Originally Posted by Smeg
... I like to fantasise sometimes, and I lie very occasionally... my superior home, job, wealth, freedom, car, girl, retirement age, appearance, satisfaction with birth country etc etc... Over the past few years I have put together over 100 pages on notes on thaiophilia...
The recent burning of exotic cars on a transporter here brought a lot of unwanted attention to the illegal business of bringing in this sort of automobile without the proper paperwork as well and most importantly, without having paid the taxes/duty required on said vehicles.
The Thai Criminal Investigation Department is all over these cars, dealers and owners. So much so that owners and dealers were trying to move these vehicles out of Thailand to safe houses for later trans shipment to approving countries who would no doubt look the other way.
Big Bucks are involved and very high up Thai's. I wouldn't touch that Benz if I were you.
I would only buy cars in the UK with no V5 when you could tell what the story was, there are perfectly genuine reasons why someone would not have the V5 such as when an elderly relative died and they had to clear out their house and get everything gone.
I certainly would not be in to purchasing stolen vehicles, in the UK I knew someone who was always offering me cheap motocross bikes which I could have made a quick and easy profit on but I never did because it is against my principles.
This car has of course got a shady history hence why it is now in Bangkok with no paperwork, I do however know that it is not stolen as I HPI'd it and it came up clear from a theft point of view.
If I knew it was a stolen car no of course I would not buy it, I love cars and have spent a lot of time and money on mine so I would certainly not buy someone else's stolen car.
As for making a profit, yes that would be nice, we do after all have to make a living.
This car hasn't been cut up and welded back together, I guess if you have the right connections then you can get around these regulations, only thing is that I cannot understand why if some well connected Thai managed to import the car they didn't manage to get it registered?
Sounds like this must of been how the car arrived in the first place, sounds like there are many ins and outs regarding it all...
Photo copies of a green book sounds rather dodgy to me, if you crashed it with this would your insurance be valid?
To register it you need the receipt from customs and excise thats proves proper import duty has been paid, perhaps this vehicle came into the country though another route that is different from the usual channels and has never been near customs and excise.Originally Posted by supernovadw
It's very dodgy, and as I pointed out a long time ago, it is even more dodgy considering it was done by the previous owner who is a policeman.Originally Posted by supernovadw
PossiblyOriginally Posted by kingwilly
You mean besides these quotes (I added the bold)- "The existence of fake docs and items does not equate to it being stolen..."- no, it sounds totally legit- only someone of limited intelligence would have bought that bike in the first place and been stupid enough to post that info- make sure you remove that 'dodgy stuff'.
I didn't claim you purchased stolen property- I claimed you may very well have done so, but you don't give a shit and don't want to know- 'I'm alright, Jack', right? So what if it's possibly someone else's pride-and-joy- you got a good deal, and that's all that matters.
Fake green book (photocopies or not), forged papers, whatever- there's obviously something dodgy with this bike or it would have anything fake associated with it to begin with.
Last edited by FailSafe; 02-08-2013 at 05:42 PM.
You're not very bright are you failsafe?
You still haven't posted what I challenged to to post which is where I said I had a green book.
Even the part you quote above in bold I don't say I have green book.
Agreed the previous owner was a Thai copper.Originally Posted by FailSafe
As for me, I've had a few bikes over the years with no green book. It doesn't bother me at all.
Now stop being a wanker and accept that many people in Thailand have big bikes with no green book. it's just the way it is, it doesn't mean they are stolen.
Try and get some medicine for that massive butthurt you seem to have.
Says the king of being butt-hurt- the guy who has to shit on my threads and send me reds for comments that weren't even directed at him.
Sure, OK, your bike is 100% legitimate... The bike was on the road backed up by fake paperwork, it's got a fake plate, but of course all the other paperwork is completely legal and above-board ('the existence of fake docs and items doesn't mean the bike is stolen'- it just means that, well, it has fake docs and items- it's totally legal, though, except for the fake stuff- you'd have to be stupid to think otherwise- most legal bikes have fake docs associated with them, don't they...? Yes, it might not be stolen- it also very well may be- one thing's for sure- a truly legal bike wouldn't need what your bike has)- just make sure you call that policeman to bail you out when you get pulled over- like with every other legitimate bike, it's necessary to have a cop vouch for its legality if you're stopped...
Yes, I'm sure having bikes that aren't properly documented doesn't bother you at all- no surprise there.
If you told me the sky was blue I would feel it necessary to look out the window and check.
Last edited by FailSafe; 02-08-2013 at 09:49 PM.
OT but talk of transporters, here's a poser:
Friend needed to get his car from the free zone at Laem Chabang to a free zone near by Laos border.
Problem: The car was legal in both free zones, but illegal on Thai roads, whether driven or on a slider, which made it liable to confiscation, and rural police are on a constant lookout for illegal vehicles since confiscation brings in a bounty.
No shipping or flying.
Green for first correct card out of the bag.
^ Easy.
Teleportation.
A phone call leading to another, and he was instructed to be at the free zone next morning for the police slider, complete with 2 uniformed cops for relay driving. It seems cops don't stop cops.
even if it were left hand drive super you would still be getting hit for a massive luxury tax, assuming you could get all the documents sorted to get it across the freindship bridge, import tax on vehicles is getting bloody expensive as of the last few years, a vigo is fine as its considered an agriculural necessity, anything else is considered luxury, Prados Fortuners etc. The company i work for have been battling with the Lao government for the past 2 years to allow us to purchase new 4 wheelers to replace some we have had for 9 years, under the mining agreement we shouldnt be paying any tax at all, but its taken some time to resolve this, got the nod last week to go ahead and order new ones, 2 landcruiser wagons and a dualcab ute should arrive end of september, hopefully earlier, we have been using Landrovers for a couple of years and quite frankly they are shocking, For anyone interested a basic landcruiser dualcab minus the tax is $36500 double that if you have to pay full tax, i wouldnt go anywhere near that Merc mate, sounds a bit murky, Another thing i might mention is many years ago i bought an old isuzu trooper that had originally been imported by an NGO and had the white plates to reflect that, no tax had been paid, drove it for years and would of kept it except they were getting a bit funny on Farangs driving NGO registered cars unless you actually worked for the particular NGO who imported it , which i didnt, tried many times to pay the tax on it as i wanted to keep it, couldnt find a Lao person who could get it done ( under the table ) oh yes i like a bit of corruption, fockers wanted 100% of the value , ended up selling it to a relative of the wife just to get rid of it . he still hasnt managed to get those NGO plates of itOriginally Posted by Spin
get it mate,Originally Posted by supernovadw
otherwise give me the number and i will get it.
i can sell it for 500.000 to the local amphur chief, he never gets hassled by the police,
I didn't mean importing it to Laos properly as like you say the tax in Laos is a nightmare just like Thailand, I think recently they put it up again so yeh your certainly right it would cost a fortune! As you probably know a lot of people import cars over the Mekong on the dodge and drive them around on dodgy plates and paperwork
Sounds like your having a bit of a nightmare with buying the new cars for the mine, these are the things which do piss me off as a procedure like that which should be easy and straight forward always seems to be awkward in Laos...
Corruption as you say doesn't seem to work that easily when cars or bikes are involved, two of my wife's family work for the vehicle registration place and one is quite high up however I've asked him many times about stuff and he never seems to be able to get stuff done under the table even when offered a good amount of cash!
If you are genuinely interested then PM me so long as there is something in it for me
So we're back to you being happy purchasing a stolen vehicle.
How do you know it is stolen ?
I purchased a GSXR from Rigger (now for sale by Timber) with zero paperwork, are you saying it was stolen as well ?
I have an RX8 sitting in my workshop that has zero paperwork, we imported it but to be built up as a race car, are you saying it is stolen ?
The Meth One's Fuck The Best !!
^
The point is that you don't know that it wasn't stolen. If a vehicle has zero paperwork, there's no way to check its provenance (knowing the person selling it means nothing)- for all you know, it was taken from somebody's garage in the middle-of-the-night. I actually couldn't believe there was so much interest in it when it first came up- everyone let the fact that it was cheap completely cloud their judgment. I'm not saying it was stolen, but there's a big market in Thailand for that sort of thing- there's no arguing that ownership was not legally transferred.
A bike without even an invoice raises a lot of red flags, especially coupled with a price that's about 30% of market value.
Also, how does a car you imported have 'zero paperwork' associated with it? At a minimum it would have to have been brought in illegally (perhaps as separate parts and then reassembled)- that doesn't mean it's stolen, but, again, it's sketchy. You don't even have the importation documentation of a car your own company brought in? Strange- it's not something you'd lose. There are differences between dedicated race vehicles and street vehicles, though, but when an advertisement says you 'probably' shouldn't ride on the street, that means (to me) 'stay away'.
I just hate- fucking HATE- bike and car thieves- the fact that bikes and cars can be so expensive in LOS has caused the market in stolen goods with dodgy paperwork to become huge- while I understand the motivation, it's too bad the foreign community perpetuates it by being willing to buy/sell improperly/illegally documented vehicles. Serious uncertainty should be enough to walk away from a deal, but for too many it's not.
Last edited by FailSafe; 09-08-2013 at 07:55 AM.
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