US Army Thailand 1971-1975

[ltnt]

Hardship tour huh? Chot dee K baldy.

[IceSpike]

The U-21, Beechcraft Model 87, awesome aircracft for it's day.
(a modified Queen Air withPratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-6 engines)
As they evolved the antennas actually increased lift and speed, reduced drag, and gave numerous techs scars to last a lifetime.

[Borey the Bald]

Fascinating- do keep it coming, please. The righteousness or folly of the 'cause' is a geopolitical matter, most often determined in hindsight, and invariably judged with hindsight. Your individual tapestry of experience is a valuable archive. I would say the same for an individual account from the other side.

I agree. Forget the politics. The experiences and the stories are worth telling, and reading, on their own.

+1. Look forward to more Borey, would be very interesting to hear about Laos and Cambodia too.

Khmen,

I would be happy to add stories about Laos and Cambodia, but it is amazing how little I know about those operations. Since we were daily in situations where there was a possibility of going down in "enemy territory", we were only given access to information that we needed to know to get the job done. The assumption was made (probably correctly) that if we were captured we would disclose any information that we knew. And operations that I had personal knowledge of, such as tracking SR-71s over SEA or setting up of electronic gear along the Ho Chi Minh Trail, are now only dim memories.

As an aside, since "need to know" was such an essential foundation of good intelligence security, I wonder how some bureaucrat could allow a computer system that led the Wikileaks-Julian Assang debacle.

[Borey the Bald]

The U-21, Beechcraft Model 87, awesome aircracft for it's day.
(a modified Queen Air withPratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-6 engines)
As they evolved the antennas actually increased lift and speed, reduced drag, and gave numerous techs scars to last a lifetime.

Once, after an inexperienced tech worked on the electronics, we couldn't get the equipment to work properly. Flew around for a week just wasting time and acting as target practice dummies. Eventually they figured out that the antenna had been hooked up backward, 180 degrees out of phase.

[pasko]

Great photos...Thanks for sharing that part history!!!

[jobsworth]

"If I remember correctly, I took this photo as we overflew the Air America base at Xieng Khouang, Laos."

Please correct me because I may be wrong but I always believed that the Air America base was at Vang Vien, half way between Vientiane and Luang Prabang.
Vang Vien has a large disused runway which the backpackers need to cross to get from the bus station to the guest house and restaurant area.

Anyway this forum just gets better and better. Please keep these wonderful threads coming.

" The buildings are still there, but don't know what it is used for now."

I hate to say it but there were allegations that the US base at Udon Thani
was used for special rendition after 911 by the CIA and before that
it was some kind of secret broadcasting station transmitting to Cambodia and Vietnam
like Radio Free Europe in Munich transmitted to iron curtain countries.

[Andrew Hicks]

Fascinating- do keep it coming, please. The righteousness or folly of the 'cause' is a geopolitical matter, most often determined in hindsight, and invariably judged with hindsight. Your individual tapestry of experience is a valuable archive. I would say the same for an individual account from the other side.

The life of Brian, Kissinger, Woderwick or whoever. The Romans, the Brits and other colonial conquerors never behave particularly well, but individual experiences seen through the perspective of the moment are very fascinating. Bring'em on!

Last night I watched the movie, "Air America". Very entertaining and some great footage of Thailand and aircraft but essentially an anti-war movie which reminded me of "Catch 22".

[Borey the Bald]

Jobsworth,

"Please correct me because I may be wrong but I always believed that the Air America base was at Vang Vien, half way between Vientiane and Luang Prabang."

At that time, there were several bases in use all over Laos. The only one I actually landed at was at Savannakhet, directly across from Mukdahan, Thailand. We regularly flew over a couple up in the Plain of Jars in north central Laos.

"I hate to say it but there were allegations that the US base at Udon Thani
was used for special rendition after 911 by the CIA and before that
it was some kind of secret broadcasting station transmitting to Cambodia and Vietnam
like Radio Free Europe in Munich transmitted to iron curtain countries."

I don't know anything about after 911, but in the 1970's it was only used as a highly sensitive receiving station. At night, we could listen to Korean cab drivers. But it was never capable of transmitting.

Thanks for the interest.

Borey

[Borey the Bald]

Brian,

There were a few characters in Air America that would fit right into the movie "Catch 22". Some may still be wondering around SEA bumming drinks.

[michaleo]

Fascinating thread, thank you.

How was the contact with Thaipeople in Udon Thani for you?

[thrilled]

Udorn was A fantastic to be during the war.And the city udonthani,was A fantastic place to party.I will never forget those years.

[Borey the Bald]

I was never into the bar scene. I became domesticated very quickly. Below is a picture of friends and in-laws in my house in Non Sung. I got along well with the locals. I tried to speak the local dialect, but they have always had a hard time understanding me. My wife and I only spoke Lao-Thai together while in country.

[luangtom]

I was one of the Zoomies assigned to the 7th RRFS at Non Soong. We, too, monitored the Trail in Laos, the NVAF and plotted the Blackbird flights, along with Combat Apple and the rest. I was there from mid-1972 to early-1974. I married a local from Sakhon Nakhon province and we are still together after 38 years. We have a home in amphoe Sawang Daen Din that we visit almost yearly.

Our most active work was during Operation Linebacker II (1972 bombings of Hanoi) and Operation Freedom (the release of POW's in 1973). The saddest day of my tour was in February of 1973 when Baron 52 went down in Laos with compatriots aboard.

We were the US Army ASA sister command US Air Force Security Service. Our other units were in Nakhon Phanom, both air and ground units. I haffta say the name "Silent Warriors" applies to all that served at Ramasun Station, 7th RRFS.

There were memorable party-spots in Non Soong. The Cobra Club, run by "Charlie and Dim", a US Army gent with a Thai wife was frequented often. Slim's tailor-shop was right across the road from the front-gate of the post. The 7th RRFS web-site has photos of many of the others. Ah, the memories.................

[Borey the Bald]

Thrilled,

Were you with the military there, or were you a "contractor"?


Borey

[Borey the Bald]

Luangtom,

Nice to hear from a compatriot. Most of the time you were there I was on flight status, either in Udon or Utapao. Stayed away from Ramasun as much as possible. Only had to go in for pre and post flight briefings. I didn't know that there was a web site for 7th RRFS. I'll check it out tonight. Maybe help me remember some of what is now only a rather dim memory.

Borey

[Amina]

Many military retirees and ex-service men living in and around Korat. Most were US Air Force stationed at Tac Lee near here. F-105's plus other type aircraft were flown on missions to VN from early 60's to the end in 70's.

My husband is a USAF retiree who served with the F-105 Fighter Bombers at Takhli RTAFB, in Nakornsawan province, a little east of Chainat. He was there in the very early days of the Vietnam war in 1965/66/67, when there were supposedly "No US Forces" in Thailand, and very few modern conveniences available. When Takhli closed for first time in 1970, all the troops and equipment were relocated to the 388 TFW at Korat RTAFB. Then about a year later Takhli reopened, and eventually the F-4 Phantom IIs from Da Nang in Vietnam took over the base until it closed again in the mid seventies and all the USAF departed Takhli for good. Today, Takhli RTAFB is home of the RTAF No. 4 Wing flying F-16s.
Amina Christoph

[khmen]

^Nice to see you posting again Amina, I thought you'd stopped and thought it was a shame as posters such as yourself, with an interesting perspective on Thailand, are a welcome addition to the board.

Anyways, same to you Borey.

I would be happy to add stories about Laos and Cambodia, but it is amazing how little I know about those operations. Since we were daily in situations where there was a possibility of going down in "enemy territory", we were only given access to information that we needed to know to get the job done. The assumption was made (probably correctly) that if we were captured we would disclose any information that we knew. And operations that I had personal knowledge of, such as tracking SR-71s over SEA or setting up of electronic gear along the Ho Chi Minh Trail, are now only dim memories.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, it's understandable really that soldiers on the ground (or air!) aren't privy to too much information. It's just that the US operations in Laos and in particular Cambodia are an area of history I'm interested in.

I don't want to start a negative political discussion as has already been stated in this thread but have you read the book by William Shawcross "Sideshow-Kissinger and Nixon and the destruction of Cambodia"? As you can probably tell by the title it's pretty critical of the US Govt's policies in SEA, but I thought I'd mention it anyway because it may be of interest to you. It details some operations you may have been involved in, and may help fill in some of the blanks for you.

[usual suspect]

I did have (but now lost) maps of Thailand dated ~ 1967 showing all the air bases.
They are available on the net if you tap it in. Took me a while to navigate them due to lack of roads & marked villages back then..still quite interesting tho'.

[Borey the Bald]

Khmen,

Any discussion of the politics of Vietnam would, of necessity, be negative, I was with the 25th Infantry Division in 1970, and spent a month on the ground in what was called "War Zone C" in Cambodia. It was unclear who the locals hated more, us or the Vietnamese. Later, in 1973 to 1975, we flew over many of these same areas. Some areas were covered with 500 lb bomb craters, as far as the eye could see. We seem to have a knack for shitting on defenseless people. But, hopefully, somebody made some money off of it. That's what these little wars appear to be about.

[Boon Mee]

Last night I watched the movie, "Air America". Very entertaining and some great footage of Thailand and aircraft but essentially an anti-war movie which reminded me of "Catch 22".

That's all Hollywood knows how to make these days. That & having folks like Hanoi Jane cheering on the NVA.

Big difference from patriotic stuff coming out of the studios in the 40's, eh?

[cambtek]

Great thread this with excellent pics.Has anyone read flying through midnight about the flights over laos?
It is one of the best books about the war and available in bangkok.
I live in phnom penh and i would like to hear more about cambodia.These people were the real victims of their greedy king and generals and US foreign policy.They not only had the bejesus bombed out of them but they then got four years of the khmer rouge.
What has happened to the old bases,rotting away or demolished?
I liked the quote about the income gathering capacity of the thai military.
Imagine how many fortunes were made in thailand by generals and businesmen.
I was in bangkok when the KR fell and the khmers swarmed to the thai border.The thai military made more fortunes from us at the expense of the cambodians.
Thailands infrastructure would have been nothing like today without the war.

[krungbin]

Very interesting thread, Borey, many thanks for sharing that experience!

[Axle]

I was forced to reenlist while there.

Yep, I know the feeling. I had a girl friend that forced me to do certian things when I was 19. They say I have a permanent smile these days.

[Cujo]

Anymore pics?

[nkped]

If I remember correctly, the facility at Non Sung was called Ramasun. It achieved vague notoriety as being the only American facility left operating after the Kukrit Pramoj government effectively ended the US military presence in Thailand. This was because its intelligence gathering capacity was important to the Thai military.

Ramasan may (or may not) have closed a bit later in 1976.