Yaba, a motorcycle accident, and hospital care

[genghis61]

GF's idiot brother had a motorbike crash yesterday. He doesn't live near us fortunately, has alcohol and yaba 'issues'.

We got a call from a Thai woman saying her husband found him after a motorcycle accident and her husband - a kindly farang - was driving him to hospital 30km away. If I'd found him unconscious road-side I'd have been tempted to have gently rolled him into a ditch of water.

So all the family head off, he gets moved to a bigger hospital, lots of blood from his ears (is that serious) plus shoulder/arm impact injuries but due to his state drs cannot do much till he sobers/straightens out.

The point of all this. He has no insurance of course, all the others do but he cancelled his, the bike wasn't his, and was unregistered, no insurance. I'm told family is liable for all his costs. I thought there was free accident care for Thais?

After all 'he is family'.

Why this pisses me off (1). GF is the 'money' one of the family, having managed to put her farm income aside towards building her own new house one day, and has a good amount coming in January when her own eucalyptus plantation will be harvested. Who ya gonna call? She's refused all attempts at loans in the past but this one seems no option. And it won't be a loan.

I guess he's in the equivalent of what I'd call Intensive Care. Anyone have any idea what the hospital care costs could be per day?


I'll visit only if he's machine dependent and disconnect things to hasten the process.

***********

I'll visit Mr Kindly Farang today to say thanks; regardless of other circumstances, bloody good of him to pick up a stranger, give what care he could and drive him to a hospital. Last year I was passenger in a car driven by a Thai and he refused to stop at a road accident, since then I've learned this is quite common - the 'don't get involved' policy.

************

[the dogcatcher]

Isn't it all free for Thais?
Other than 30 baht a visit.
Mr Toxin and all that.

[superman]

lots of blood from his ears (is that serious)

Good indicator of skull fracture.

[superman]

Isn't it all free for Thais? Other than 30 baht a visit.

That's if you're sick. Accidents and attempted suicides are liable for hospital bills even at government hospitals. That's why you need insurance in Thailand.

[The Muffinman]

GF is the 'money' one of the family

Rotten bit of bad luck there.

since then I've learned this is quite common - the 'don't get involved' policy.

One of the first things I learned about Thailand and their compassion for their fellow beings. 'Keep driving Somchai, we don't wanna be held responsible now do we?'

[Humbert]

I'm sure he will appreciate your upcoming contribution to his medical fund.

[keda]

The worse his injuries the luckier he is to have such a generous sister and her farang bf. If he ever recovers I doubt he'll learn much from the experience other than he can do as he pleases because he has fully comp insurance courtesy of family. I'd consider introducing him to that Danish letter bomb bloke.

[klong toey]

Send them a plastic bag and a elastic band,cost about 2 baht.
A good job done on the cheap.

[nidhogg]

Why this pisses me off (1). GF is the 'money' one of the family, having managed to put her farm income aside towards building her own new house one day, and has a good amount coming in January when her own eucalyptus plantation will be harvested. Who ya gonna call? She's refused all attempts at loans in the past but this one seems no option. And it won't be a loan.

Agreed, this annoys the fuck out of me as well. It seems accepted here that you can be a total fuck off, not work, not do anything, not save, and the minute you get in to trouble, the "responsible" (i.e. those who worked, saved and tried to plan fo the future) ones are expected to foot the bill. Not only my missus who seems to be the one in her family who gets the first call when some more shit hits the fan, but my extremely hardworking secretary is the same. Her yaba taking, junkie layabout brother gets into trouble, she is the one expected to open her wallet.

Really, really annoys me. And if you say "fuck it", no way am I bailing that loser out -you are the "bad one". Insane.

I'll visit Mr Kindly Farang today to say thanks; regardless of other circumstances, bloody good of him to pick up a stranger, give what care he could and drive him to a hospital. Last year I was passenger in a car driven by a Thai and he refused to stop at a road accident, since then I've learned this is quite common - the 'don't get involved' policy.

Just a comment on this. The farang was certainly caring. Ill advised maybe. You always need to remember there are no "good samaritan" laws here in Thailand, that protect an uninvolved third party from any claim. If at some point the famlily decide they need a scape goat, the farang could be in the firing line. If they sue, saying that the farang worsened the boys condition by putting him into a car and driving him to the hospital, he could be in for a rocky time. And you can be damn sure that the family will not be grateful that he was not left lying in a ditch.

I took part in a first responder course a while ago. The instructors advice was very clear: You are not covered by any laws in Thailand and could open yourself to civil or criminal prosecution if you involve yourself in an accident scene.

[genghis61]

well it appears he will live, getting some kind of scans on Friday when they expect swelling to have eased - I would say brain swelling but that would be giving him too much credit. He'll be hospitalised for minimum another week is today's estimate.

As I understand it, if the motorbike had valid registration/insurance his costs would be covered. It wasn't, he isn't.

The mother has declined offers of a ride to visit him. All is not well in the universe. Wasn't aware they had all contributed to a private residential rehab scheme for him a few years back, a deal with police/court as an alternative to prison.

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And visited the 'Good Samaritan', he said his worry was that 'victim' would die on way to hospital. Very good points above Nidhogg but I guess almost a reflex thing in this situation - see an injured person and help. His father-in-law helped at scene and quickly identified the yaba (smell?) influence.

*********

It was such a quiet life . . .

[genghis61]

Agreed, this annoys the fuck out of me as well. It seems accepted here that you can be a total fuck off, not work, not do anything, not save, and the minute you get in to trouble, the "responsible" (i.e. those who worked, saved and tried to plan fo the future) ones are expected to foot the bill. Not only my missus who seems to be the one in her family who gets the first call when some more shit hits the fan, but my extremely hardworking secretary is the same. Her yaba taking, junkie layabout brother gets into trouble, she is the one expected to open her wallet.

Really, really annoys me. And if you say "fuck it", no way am I bailing that loser out -you are the "bad one". Insane.

yes I have fumed over this; they are 90% a decent family, no alcohol/coffee/smoking except for this idiot who makes up for the rest of them. No debt, and otherwise hard-working, her b-in-law spent his sugar proceeds on more tractor gadgets to earn more money while putting two daughters thru uni without any loans . . . so is asset-rich but no free cash. GF - and there is some small irony in this - worked for a life assurance company, all except 'idiot' (who of course cancelled his policy) have accident and death insurance.

Only small good news is they have no idea how much she has squirreled away, has lived in fear of them finding out . . . downside is they know she has the 7yr eucs that can be harvested any time but she's holding out - till now maybe. Bugger.

[superman]

I'm sorry to hear of your GF's problem but she knows full well that this is the way it is here. She will just have to pay the tab and start again. The Thai way really makes me angry when I hear of this happening.

[keda]

...Just a comment on this. The farang was certainly caring. Ill advised maybe. You always need to remember there are no "good samaritan" laws here in Thailand, that protect an uninvolved third party from any claim. If at some point the famlily decide they need a scape goat, the farang could be in the firing line. If they sue, saying that the farang worsened the boys condition by putting him into a car and driving him to the hospital, he could be in for a rocky time. And you can be damn sure that the family will not be grateful that he was not left lying in a ditch.

I took part in a first responder course a while ago. The instructors advice was very clear: You are not covered by any laws in Thailand and could open yourself to civil or criminal prosecution if you involve yourself in an accident scene.

Good advice and worth keeping in mind. I was pulled back by Thai friends in an accident situation where I was going forward to help a farang splattered on the road, not because I'm a medic but just to see if there was anything I could do to help. They explained it to me then and it's been explained by others many times since, as difficult as it is don't get involved unless you're prepared to risk taking on full responsibility which includes financial and possibly also criminal liability.

[kingwilly]

Shame the laws like that, I'd be inclined to help anyway. Sorry to hear your g/f will have to harvest her trees now, nowt she can do I think.

[hazz]

Better half has explained it to me in these terms:

• If you see someone who is in need of assistance and you do nothing; you are breaking the law and bad things can happen to you.
  
• If you do stop and provide assistance you are opening yourself up potentially to a whole host of civil and criminal trouble.

I.E either way you are screwed. What we have done under these circumstances is to immediately report the accident to the police either at the next station or by phone. As we have no medical training this is all that we can competently do; thus we comply with the first law and avoid issues under the second law.

I don't feel easy about doing this, however, thailand has had many opportunities to put good Samaritan laws in place and has chosen not to. The voters don't feel its important enough to make an issue of it; so arguably this is how thai society want it and I can live with that.

[genghis61]

there was an accident re-creation yesterday attended by important local people, some of whom stood and pointed at the road and a motorbike on its side borrowed to make it look good. The pointing was entertaining - just like the police ones - 'man points at road' etc.

Outcome will be interesting, despite his 'state' there is a nasty pothole they can blame, and he is son of the late/former poo yai baan, they are the 'big family' here, village carries their surname . . . watch this space

The wheels are in motion!

[Loy Toy]

I hope everything works out and as cheap as possible for everyone involved and your ladies brother recovers and may have learned a lesson in life after all of this.

A great learning curve thread mate and for the rest of us farangs to follow with interest.

[LivinLOS]

The greater problem for this system is tho, it encourages apathy, and discourages success. If you have anything today, you may as well blow it as it will only get borrowed off you by someone who doesnt work.

Communism of another stripe.

[Fondles]

Cant you slip a BiB some coinage and get him to pin the accident on the Farang who stopped to help ??

[bobo746]

bad luck mate happens all to often i wonder what they would do if ur g/f couldn't or wouldn't foot the bill.

[nidhogg]

Better half has explained it to me in these terms:

• If you see someone who is in need of assistance and you do nothing; you are breaking the law and bad things can happen to you.
  
• If you do stop and provide assistance you are opening yourself up potentially to a whole host of civil and criminal trouble.

I.E either way you are screwed. What we have done under these circumstances is to immediately report the accident to the police either at the next station or by phone. As we have no medical training this is all that we can competently do; thus we comply with the first law and avoid issues under the second law.

I don't feel easy about doing this, however, thailand has had many opportunities to put good Samaritan laws in place and has chosen not to. The voters don't feel its important enough to make an issue of it; so arguably this is how thai society want it and I can live with that.

Have not heard the first bit before (about not reporting). Not saying its not true, just saying I had not heard that.

However, for emphasis I agree strongly with you that the correct thing to do is to report the accident as quickly as you can, and keep your hands off the person. Tough, I know.

[hazz]

^The law applies to property as well as people, we used it when I left a rather expensive PDA in a car rental. We went back to collect it, the shop was closed and the security guard said not his problem. so we went to the luprini park police station, made a report and went with an officer to hand it to the security guard. Suddenly the safety of my property was the security guards problem along with the rental company.

The samaritan laws do have their limits:

a mate went for an interview to study medicine, as they were being taken for a tour of the site, they came across and accident where a cyclist had been hit and was in a great deal of pain.

One of the undergrad students went to get help and the others just stud there and did nothing. Because they had some medical training, the good samaritan laws would not protect them, the university insurance would not cover them because they were not qualified doctors, and they had been told in no uncertain terms that they would be thrown out of the university of they did get involved.

[hazz]

Better half told that there is a third party law, which means that of you can show that some third party was involved in causing the accident, even if they are unknown; then the 30 B scheme can be used to cover the treatment.

The pot hole might help, But it could be argued that as he had no business being on the road driving a unregistered bike without insurance it might not. From my experience on the 30B scheme, as with everything else ion thailand, patronage more than anything determines what you get, so He might be lucky.

[nidhogg]

One of the undergrad students went to get help and the others just stud there and did nothing. Because they had some medical training, the good samaritan laws would not protect them, the university insurance would not cover them because they were not qualified doctors, and they had been told in no uncertain terms that they would be thrown out of the university of they did get involved.

That bit I am not sure on. The good samaritan laws protect everyone - within the limits of their training.

[hazz]

One of the undergrad students went to get help and the others just stud there and did nothing. Because they had some medical training, the good samaritan laws would not protect them, the university insurance would not cover them because they were not qualified doctors, and they had been told in no uncertain terms that they would be thrown out of the university of they did get involved.

That bit I am not sure on. The good samaritan laws protect everyone - within the limits of their training.

Thats the point. A court could decide that you were were within the limits of their medical training and you could then be responsible for civil damages. Which is why if you have any medical or first aid training, you are taking a risk if you help someone without insurance cover to cover any civil claims. These students did not have insurance and the university wanted to be unsueable if they did help, hence their punitive punishments for students that do help.