What steps have you taken to protect your family in the event of your death?

[bowie]

Reading commentary on another thread caused the wheels to turn.


Factual: You are an expat living in a foreign country. You have assets. You will die. You have family.


So, when you die, and yes, you will die, what’s gonna happen to your family. They are your responsibility and it is up to you to protect or take care of them to the best of your ability, so, what have you done to prepare for your eventual demise?

Last Will and Testament, Attorney, Death File, Trusted Friend, Trusted Family Member?

Have you done anything at all to help your family out, or, are they gonna have to cross that bridge when they come to it?


I’m 62 yo, in reasonably excellent/good health, have an adequate nest egg, and will have reasonable SS benefits when I start collecting, and a long-lived family history so I should be around for many, many more years, yet, I do drive and seeing some of the wacks behind the wheel here, one moments carelessness and its off to the crematorium. My wife speaks limited English and is a Thai citizen (was a green card holder, but surrendered when we moved back)

So, what should I do to protect my wife should the unfortunate happen to me?
And/or what have you done to protect your significant others for your eventual demise?

[Pragmatic]

I can't really add anything other than what I wrote on another thread. There's an old saying 'only bring to Thailand what you can afford to lose'. As far as I'm concerned, my relationship is sound. No sniggering please. And I keep the all my savings here. Getting between 4 and 6.25%. Sheds more than I'd get if it was sitting in the UK. Contrary to the doubters who will say I shouldn't. I have to consider the obstacles my missus and kids would have to cross. Due to their lack of knowledge on how things work in the west I have to keep things as simple as possible.

[Stumpy]

When I die wife gets house and land here of course. My financial assets in the US are to be split 3 ways equally between my wife and daughters. My wife being a US citizen will have some access to my SS benefits but not sure how much. I am still a long way off from SS benefits at this time.

I too am in excellent health and have a family history of living long( I look at it more as a curse then a blessing quite honestly) so we will see.

[mudcat]

Quick question. How many years was she a permanent resident? If five or more years she can receive survivor's benefits in Thailand on your demise based on your earnings. For my wife this gives around 1,500 USD per month (inflation adjusted) for the rest of her life - search on Survivor Benefits on the SS website).
We have executed and lodged durable powers of attorney with a trusted mutual friend here in the U.S. Anything left in the U.S. needs a U.S. Embassy form (?Report of a death...) which we have both filled out templates for (my wife is a U.S. citizen).

[AntRobertson]

Weird, just had an in-depth convo about this with a mate on Sat night.

Won't go into details on plans but one of the things that's very important is to make it all as simple as possible so that if you were to suddenly drop dead or disappear from the face of the planet all the little things like knowing account passwords and stuff don't become monumental problems and bureaucratic nightmares for those left behind.

[bowie]

I can't really add anything other than what I wrote on another thread. There's an old saying 'only bring to Thailand what you can afford to lose'. As far as I'm concerned, my relationship is sound. No sniggering please. And I keep the all my savings here. Getting between 4 and 6.25%. Sheds more than I'd get if it was sitting in the UK. Contrary to the doubters who will say I shouldn't. I have to consider the obstacles my missus and kids would have to cross. Due to their lack of knowledge on how things work in the west I have to keep things as simple as possible.

Prag, thanks for the reply, can't green ya yet, good returns you are getting and sound logic is in your post. I'm in a similar situation in that the wife cannot possibly navigate the obstacles due to her lack or knowledge and limited english - she is at the mercy of her friends and family in Thailand and our friends and family in the US (limited resources in the US).

[bowie]

JPPR2, thanks for the reply. For myself, wife never went the US citizen route - claimed it would prevent from owning land in Thailand. She was 100% certain of that and no amount of convincing arguments - "lead a horse to water". Oh, well can't change the past. Should be more on this in some later posts.

Thx again.

[bowie]

Quick question. How many years was she a permanent resident? If five or more years she can receive survivor's benefits in Thailand on your demise based on your earnings. For my wife this gives around 1,500 USD per month (inflation adjusted) for the rest of her life - search on Survivor Benefits on the SS website).
We have executed and lodged durable powers of attorney with a trusted mutual friend here in the U.S. Anything left in the U.S. needs a U.S. Embassy form (?Report of a death...) which we have both filled out templates for (my wife is a U.S. citizen).

Mudcat - thanks for the reply. Wife lived and worked in the US for 20+ years, never got her citizenship, actually she refused for the reason posted above. She fully qualifies for her own SS benefits, but, twenty year of contributions along with the associated 15 years of zero's in the calc's leaves her with @ $600/mo. Using her spousal benefits will probably increase her payment to @ $900/mo. but, she will be paying the "penalty" of being a non-citizen living in a foreign county (probably on the order of - $150/mo.).

I've checked this out but, it is fluid until you actually start claiming and then the figures become "solid". Biggest drawback for her now concerning this is the SS office that handles Thailand is in the Philippines. So, I'm faced with preparing for the scenario of a Thai speaking Thailand citizen widow of an American citizen applying for social security benefits from America through the Philippines office. I need to make some kind of arrangements to facilitate this should I kick the bucket before I get our benefits started (@ 4 years down the road).

We do have the DPA and Last Will & Testaments and DPA in the USA. They don't mean squat over here concerning the THB 900k in my solo bank account nor the THB 800k automobile. So, I need to address these issues. Our new house (well, fairly new) is, of course in her name (I have Usufruct control). But, I need to set it up so she will not be "forced" to sell the house for living expense funds.

Thanks again for there reply.

[bowie]

Weird, just had an in-depth convo about this with a mate on Sat night.

Won't go into details on plans but one of the things that's very important is to make it all as simple as possible so that if you were to suddenly drop dead or disappear from the face of the planet all the little things like knowing account passwords and stuff don't become monumental problems and bureaucratic nightmares for those left behind.

Ant, thanks for the reply. Sound advice.

Yes, passwords, account numbers and locations, etc. I do keep a "Death File" (needs updating) containing those items. It would be Greek (or actually English) to her. She can't understand a "written" word of english, nor, would she be able to "communicate" adequately with a financial institution.

Thanks for your input - great point(s) made.

[Luigi]

Thai will leaving property and Thai bank accounts to the kid. Western will leaving Western property and bank accounts to the kid.

[Headworx]

I've got plans in place including a Thai Will where my Mrs gets everything I have in Thailand (including the cash in my local accounts that she'll be able to access quite quickly) and a Will in my home country where she gets the vast majority of my Life Insurance and other assets.

She has no idea of the amount of money she'll be worth when I croak it, and I won't be giving her ballpark numbers either for fear of waking up dead . She doesn't know it, but she'll be set for life and then some.

[Maanaam]

Yes, passwords, account numbers and locations,

Would, in Western law, be illegal to access by the heirs. Probate must be done, and cash assets etc dispursed through proper chanels.
But in reality we don't want our heirs to suffer and wait so I too have that information available to my heirs.
But all you need is for a stuffy lawyer to get wind of the fact that withdrawals were made after the death, and whoever did so may face criminal procedings. Thus, it may pay to put a clause in your will to the effect, "I have instructed xyz, that upon my death she is to withdraw all funds from my accounts to assist with funeral expenses and otherwise to do with as she see's fit.".
This may not be sufficient to contract out of probate law but may mitigate any legal prosecution.

[Stumpy]

How many years was she a permanent resident?

6 years. I knew the 5 year rule which is why we stayed and I took the job working for a US company getting paid in the US.

[Pragmatic]

Would, in Western law, be illegal to access by the heirs. Probate must be done, and cash assets etc dispursed through proper chanels.

If you have a joint account all is fine. My missus is under no obligation, I'd imagine, to tell the bank of my death and just carry on using the account?

[Stumpy]

JPPR2, thanks for the reply. For myself, wife never went the US citizen route - claimed it would prevent from owning land in Thailand. She was 100% certain of that and no amount of convincing arguments - "lead a horse to water". Oh, well can't change the past. Should be more on this in some later posts.

Thx again.

My wife started down that path and then found that it was not true. She even changed her name on her Thai passport to my last name.

[Maanaam]

If you have a joint account all is fine.

Of course, but she wouldn't need passwords and acc numbers for that.
Not sure about carrying on. For Thailand especially, I imagine it would be easier to empty the joint account and forget about it. I can imagine reams of paperwork and delays otherwise.


Edit: Actually, upon reading JPPR's post it occurred to me that even the joint account should not be touched, legally speaking. You may have other heirs that may have a claim on any of your bequests, and since the money in the joint account is half yours, it should also be considered in probate.
I'm not a legal expert, just musing.

[jabir]

Good thread. I've seen at least a dozen expats die off with no will or other legal effort to protect their estate, leaving their wife/gf/kids vulnerable as the sharks circled. Right now I could count close to another dozen educated, well travelled and retired professionals that also believe in immortality, some with a load of cash, property, investments and other assets that are destined to end up in the wrong hands. Not my business, sure, but usual form when I suggest they take off a half from mongering or golfing to visit a lawyer and secure at least their main Thai assets, is along the lines of 'later'.

[Stumpy]

If you have a joint account all is fine. My missus is under no obligation, I'd imagine, to tell the bank of my death and just carry on using the account?

Yes Key is to make all accts joint. Easy cheesy.

As for my IRA, All she has to do is submit her SSN, Passport and my death certificate and she receives her 33% of the balance at time of my death. My daughter's will do the same. I told her it's better for her to fly back and handle in person then trying to make it all work from here. Same with SS. Just fly back and go to the office.

At some point my parents will pass and my brother and I will inherit their assets and cash. So I will have to update documents and beneficiaries when that all happens.

[Davis Knowlton]

Mine's pretty simple. Wife is a dual US/Flip cit, as are my kids. Everything we own ( house, land, cars, motorcycle, etc) is in wife's name. Flip bank accounts are in her name. US accounts (savings and checking) are joint. When I croak, she gets 60% of my retirement until she croaks. She can apply for a % of my social security at age 65. She is covered under my USG health insurance until death; kids are covered until age 26. I have a Flip will. I have no assets in the US. She is good with finances, and has all the details, written out, on what to do when I kick it. My life insurance policy is in her name. So, her monthly income will drop some, but, with me gone, so will expenses and kids should be done with college and on their own by then. Think she's covered.

[jabir]

If you have a joint account all is fine. My missus is under no obligation, I'd imagine, to tell the bank of my death and just carry on using the account?

I also thought single-sig joint accounts would solve that problem, but apparently not. Could be wrong as ever, and my lawyer confirmed it's good to go in practice, though legally at the time of your passing half of the balance in a joint account becomes part of your estate which falls under control of the executor for probate.

And the odd thing if I understood right, is that she also should not withdraw her half of the balance at the time of your death, since it is joint and with no way to determine which parts are hers or yours; tried to get my head around that bit and can't.

But a problem could arise if wifey empties the joint account after your death. If your will is then contested or for some other reason subject to closer scrutiny, technically she is in the wrong; unlikely that she'll get done for fraud but in a mad and occasionally corrupt system it could provide leverage by others leading to unreasonable concessions on other parts of the estate.

Something like that.

[Pragmatic]

she also should not withdraw her half of the balance at the time of your death

But is she obligated to notify the bank of your death? As long as your pension gets deposited every month and your missus transfers it here every year I don't see a problem. I believe she will receive 40% automatically of my pension.

[kmart]

Good thread. I've seen at least a dozen expats die off with no will or other legal effort to protect their estate, leaving their wife/gf/kids vulnerable as the sharks circled. Right now I could count close to another dozen educated, well travelled and retired professionals that also believe in immortality, some with a load of cash, property, investments and other assets that are destined to end up in the wrong hands. Not my business, sure, but usual form when I suggest they take off a half from mongering or golfing to visit a lawyer and secure at least their main Thai assets, is along the lines of 'later'.

Indeed. I am another procrastinator that needs to get something sorted out.

Timely thread.

[jabir]

But is she obligated to notify the bank of your death? As long as your pension gets deposited every month and your missus transfers it here every year I don't see a problem. I believe she will receive 40% automatically of my pension.

Not legal advice at all, just my understanding of the way things work. I don't see your pension or other deposits after you pass as a problem, but TiT so someone somewhere somehow could make something of it. A 500bt legal consultation might be well invested.

[jabir]

Indeed. I am another procrastinator that needs to get something sorted out.

Timely thread.

Or as one bright spark pointed out, if I wait till I die I won't need to bother.

[lom]

since the money in the joint account is half yours

I'm not sure about that, afaik there are no halfs in a joint account.
Each party in a joint account is for instance 100% responsible for any debt on the account, not only 50%