Where next.

[Lorenzo]

^ so mush there really warrants its own thread

IMO better to be totally financially independent and secure before moving out of US.

Best of luck there liveinlos

[beazalbob69]

^
^
Well LiveInLOS I have been living in Florida Tampa Bay area for about 10 years now and will try to give you some info. I watched the corruption of the housing bubble burst and ruin a lot of nice hardworking peoples lives while at the same time the people who were in control of the bubble made off with Billions of dollars. Now the local Govts are installing red light cameras at every stop light and making millions of dollars every month using "safety" as the reason like putting a camera at a stop light is going to stop a drunk driver from not seeing a red light.

The only difference is the corruption here is hidden a little better and the middle class whats left of it cant afford to participate in it. So if you are unlucky enough to get on these peoples radar you are screwed they will ruin you life.

Personal freedoms are being destroyed at a rapid pace here. The ultra rich have just about destroyed the middle class, at least around here. A skilled labor job that used to pay $12 per hour is now $8 per hour while at the same time the cost of living has about doubled.

Most people that I know who were unlucky enough to buy a house here at the beginning of the bubble are upsidedown on their mortgages and either just walked away or are spending most of their incomes on trying to stay in their houses.

At the same time I live in an area where I have heard that 1 out of every 5 people are millionaires we have terrible poverty and joblessness. There was a huge tent town set up on some unused land where all of the people that used to have good paying middle class jobs mostly in tech were living that to ultra rich had the police shut down. They made everybody leave under threat of arrest. Where are these people gonna go? Their jobs are gone and are not coming back.

As you said about dark days ahead for Thailand I see the same for the USA that's why I am leaving for Thailand in a week and a half.

There is no escape for whats coming either in Thailand or anywhere else that I can see.

[flashbang]

Great post liveinlos. It seems the whole world is buggered. I might start smoking shitloads of weed again.

[liveinlos]

^
^
Well LiveInLOS I have been living in Florida Tampa Bay area for about 10 years now and will try to give you some info. I watched the corruption of the housing bubble burst and ruin a lot of nice hardworking peoples lives while at the same time the people who were in control of the bubble made off with Billions of dollars. Now the local Govts are installing red light cameras at every stop light and making millions of dollars every month using "safety" as the reason like putting a camera at a stop light is going to stop a drunk driver from not seeing a red light.

The only difference is the corruption here is hidden a little better and the middle class whats left of it cant afford to participate in it. So if you are unlucky enough to get on these peoples radar you are screwed they will ruin you life.

Personal freedoms are being destroyed at a rapid pace here. The ultra rich have just about destroyed the middle class, at least around here. A skilled labor job that used to pay $12 per hour is now $8 per hour while at the same time the cost of living has about doubled.

Most people that I know who were unlucky enough to buy a house here at the beginning of the bubble are upsidedown on their mortgages and either just walked away or are spending most of their incomes on trying to stay in their houses.

At the same time I live in an area where I have heard that 1 out of every 5 people are millionaires we have terrible poverty and joblessness. There was a huge tent town set up on some unused land where all of the people that used to have good paying middle class jobs mostly in tech were living that to ultra rich had the police shut down. They made everybody leave under threat of arrest. Where are these people gonna go? Their jobs are gone and are not coming back.

As you said about dark days ahead for Thailand I see the same for the USA that's why I am leaving for Thailand in a week and a half.

There is no escape for whats coming either in Thailand or anywhere else that I can see.

Thanks for the info, I have suspected the USA had degraded allot since I last visited there

[beazalbob69]

^
^
Well LiveInLOS I have been living in Florida Tampa Bay area for about 10 years now and will try to give you some info. I watched the corruption of the housing bubble burst and ruin a lot of nice hardworking peoples lives while at the same time the people who were in control of the bubble made off with Billions of dollars. Now the local Govts are installing red light cameras at every stop light and making millions of dollars every month using "safety" as the reason like putting a camera at a stop light is going to stop a drunk driver from not seeing a red light.

The only difference is the corruption here is hidden a little better and the middle class whats left of it cant afford to participate in it. So if you are unlucky enough to get on these peoples radar you are screwed they will ruin you life.

Personal freedoms are being destroyed at a rapid pace here. The ultra rich have just about destroyed the middle class, at least around here. A skilled labor job that used to pay $12 per hour is now $8 per hour while at the same time the cost of living has about doubled.

Most people that I know who were unlucky enough to buy a house here at the beginning of the bubble are upsidedown on their mortgages and either just walked away or are spending most of their incomes on trying to stay in their houses.

At the same time I live in an area where I have heard that 1 out of every 5 people are millionaires we have terrible poverty and joblessness. There was a huge tent town set up on some unused land where all of the people that used to have good paying middle class jobs mostly in tech were living that to ultra rich had the police shut down. They made everybody leave under threat of arrest. Where are these people gonna go? Their jobs are gone and are not coming back.

As you said about dark days ahead for Thailand I see the same for the USA that's why I am leaving for Thailand in a week and a half.

There is no escape for whats coming either in Thailand or anywhere else that I can see.

Thanks for the info, I have suspected the USA had degraded allot since I last visited there

Well at least they passed their "fiscal cliff" bill so they can put off the inevitable for another year and as a bonus they all get paid and get to keep their jobs for another year!!! Hooray for America land of the B.S.!!!

[Bangyai]

I'm content enough here. Traveled around a lot in my younger days and didn't find anywhere better than here. Yes, it's not as nice as it used to be but then I havn't been anywhere in the past few years that is. Seems that everywhere is getting worse because there are just to many people .

As for going back to the U.K. ??? However appealing it might seem to some, once you have been there a few months and are stuck in the middle of a long ,dark, grey wet winter you will miss the sun for sure. I had contemplated going back just to try to top up my finances but jobs are thin on the ground for a bloke in his mid 50's ( even though I still look young and handsum )

The only good thing I enjoy back in England is going around my best friends house, sitting in his large garden and enjoying a spliff with a glass of wine whilst contemplating the greenery and his pet cat. Oh , and riding my bike along the grand union canal towpath.

As for food, there is almost nothing you can't get now in Bangkok if you know where to shop so you can pretty well eat what you like.

Still....if money were no object I wouldn't mind living in Penang for a while but Ms Bangyai didn't like it enough for that so we are staying put for now.

[chingching]

thats why many farangs go home to blighty as its not cheap and chearfull anymore.
my buddy has moved from LOS on to Egypt where its like LOS 30 years ago ,with petrol at 20p a gallon and cheap food and pleny o' shagin .and clear blue waters in the red sea for diving .
take no notice of the rioting ragheads as expats are not affected by it

[DrAndy]

It seems the whole world is buggered.

correct

so instead of a lot of old men whingeing about their sad, negative lives, make those lives happy wherever you may live

Anywhere you live can be dissected and faults found, but also the benefits if you be positive

It is common that some people will never be happy with their choice, because that misery is inside them and travels with them

[liveinlos]

It seems the whole world is buggered.

correct

so instead of a lot of old men whingeing about their sad, negative lives, make those lives happy wherever you may live

Anywhere you live can be dissected and faults found, but also the benefits if you be positive

It is common that some people will never be happy with their choice, because that misery is inside them and travels with them

I don't think anyone is whining, everyone is stating their own opinions and situations are different for everyone.

You have to be an idiot to think you can make life happy where ever you live? Maybe you should try that speech with the teachers living in the south getting killed everyday or move yourself and your family down there and tell us how happy you are dodging bullets on the way to school everyday.

The point is anyone can survive and scuttle along through life with a meek existence anywhere and lull themselves into thinking that it is happiness or completely give up and settle for what little they have.

People can falsely lull themselves into thinking they got the world by the balls by living in Chiang Mai and other places while their kids grow up to be as uneducated as all the Thai's around them.

It was a pretty damn happy time in 1997 when the financial markets crashed here overnight. Maybe you didn't live here then but I can sure tell you it wasn't a happy time for anyone or any personal misery someone was carrying around like you claim.

If you think Thailand isn't heading in that direction again, all I can say is wait and see. Let's see how happy you are in the markets crash again overnight and all your cash is trapped in the bank.

It is common that some people realize and understand the downward slide Thailand has been in for years and wanting to improve the quality of life for their families

Some people you cannot argue with because it is like wrestling with a pig in the mud, the pig simply enjoys it to much.

You come off pretty darn arrogant thinking it is a bunch of old men whining when some people are smart enough to be looking ahead for greener pastures.

The problem with these forums is that instead of sharing something positive, there are always those like yourself interjecting personal opinions that have no merit or add anything to any of the readers here

There are some times you should simply not say anything if you cannot contribute positively

Your comments are not the sign of a happy man at all

[Rural Surin]

It seems the whole world is buggered.

correct

so instead of a lot of old men whingeing about their sad, negative lives, make those lives happy wherever you may live

Anywhere you live can be dissected and faults found, but also the benefits if you be positive

It is common that some people will never be happy with their choice, because that misery is inside them and travels with them

Well thought out, Andy.
All this above is true.....how is it that those collective whiners can't see this?

[ltnt]

because that misery is inside them and travels with them

Nicely put Andy. Simple and to the point. Although Liveinlos does not agree with you're sentiment. Perhaps we get caught up in our own version of right/wrong and somewhere in-between liveinlos, as you are trapped economically, personally and emotionally it appears by your dream being dispelled.

All the world is in turmoil, its not just Thailand. You're thinking, or reasoning power is excellent, but looking toward America as your escape is faulty to the inth degree. You're 50 plus, there are no jobs for you there, unless you have connections/networks. If not, I would suggest you apply for a job in the ME where Ex-pats make what they're worth. You have a good education, and background in military stuff, so its a natural transition to the M.E.

I was in and out of Thailand before the 97 bubble, during it and after 97. Its not hard on people who have nothing in any series of events. Life remained exactly the same as it always was, shitty end of the stick. those greedy Thais that mortgaged their futures and their children s futures and their grandchildren s futures in the 90's are back doing it again. Nothing changes. The biggest bubble maker is never going away. "Greed." That goes for every county and its citizens.

Good luck with you're decision and I agree, 7/11 is a bad decision. Looked at it 9 years ago. Try a coffee shop in a good to great location.

[liveinlos]

because that misery is inside them and travels with them

Nicely put Andy. Simple and to the point. Although Liveinlos does not agree with you're sentiment. Perhaps we get caught up in our own version of right/wrong and somewhere in-between liveinlos, as you are trapped economically, personally and emotionally it appears by your dream being dispelled.

All the world is in turmoil, its not just Thailand. You're thinking, or reasoning power is excellent, but looking toward America as your escape is faulty to the inth degree. You're 50 plus, there are no jobs for you there, unless you have connections/networks. If not, I would suggest you apply for a job in the ME where Ex-pats make what they're worth. You have a good education, and background in military stuff, so its a natural transition to the M.E.

I was in and out of Thailand before the 97 bubble, during it and after 97. Its not hard on people who have nothing in any series of events. Life remained exactly the same as it always was, shitty end of the stick. those greedy Thais that mortgaged their futures and their children s futures and their grandchildren s futures in the 90's are back doing it again. Nothing changes. The biggest bubble maker is never going away. "Greed." That goes for every county and its citizens.

Good luck with you're decision and I agree, 7/11 is a bad decision. Looked at it 9 years ago. Try a coffee shop in a good to great location.

Maybe you should reread the first post?

Trapped economically?

I fail to see how owning 2 homes, a farm, 2 vehicles that are all paid for and investing in a business has trapped me economically or maybe you cannot read and are just trying to kiss some ass here?

Being able to throw down US $50,000 cash really sound likes I am economically trapped?

Coffee shop?

If you had bought a 7/11 9 years ago when they were booming and locations readily available you would have been living the good life by now

You are clueless as to what is going on here.

By the way in and out of Thailand doesn't qualify you for anything

How many Thai's committed suicide and lost everything they owned in 1997?

You are quite short on truth and the facts

Re-read the first post before you speak next time

More bullshit comments from those in and out that think they know it all

You are the exact reason why more people do not contribute and post here

When you are selling helicopters to the Army, overhauling AAV-7 for the Navy and doing computer systems engineering modifications for Thai Airways then come and tell me how economically challenged I am.

Not everyone here is TEFL like you think

Just another bullshit talker that these farang forums are famous for.

[sabang]

The laissez faire attitude here is certainly addictive

Addictive to some- but anathema for others. Fortunately I belong in the first category, but many westerners do not. We really are a stressed out race, y'know.

There is no boredom in my entire life that has ever compared to living this far out in the sticks

Actually, rural Thailand is a great place to end up if you're already bored. Bored of working, consumerism, congested cities, stressed out people, stoopid fashions, shallow ambition, shopping malls selling branded shite, etc etc. It's a great place to turn your back on all that, and live a pleasantly boring life instead.

[beazalbob69]

The laissez faire attitude here is certainly addictive

Addictive to some- but anathema for others. Fortunately I belong in the first category, but many westerners do not. We really are a stressed out race, y'know.

There is no boredom in my entire life that has ever compared to living this far out in the sticks

Actually, rural Thailand is a great place to end up if you're already bored. Bored of working, consumerism, congested cities, stressed out people, stoopid fashions, shallow ambition, shopping malls selling branded shite, etc etc. It's a great place to turn your back on all that, and live a pleasantly boring life instead.

My thoughts exactly Sabang thats why I am making the move. I have had more than enough of western living. Everything is fake. Ever been to Disney World? Almost made me puke. Pay through the nose for a bunch of plastic bullshit. I don't know why so many don't notice it.

[sabang]

"I'm unhappy because of where I am living."
This is one of the great lies people tell themselves.

[Rural Surin]

"I'm unhappy because of where I am living."
This is one of the great lies people tell themselves.

A relative to: I become bored easily....

Boredom, like unhappiness is derived from within.

[bushwacker]

Let me start by saying thanks to <livinglos> for his posts and of course taking the time to give us such detail to consider. Needless to say, I agree or at least understand his POV.

I would agree that a 7/11 is a bad idea. One point that I do not remember seeing is that they can open up another store right beside yours if yours turns out to be very profitable. All in all this deck of cards is stacked and not in your favor.

Although only have lived here for 4 and a bit years, I have seen many of the negative changes that have been shared on the thread.

Lately, I have been looking at options for other places to live but really feel an economic constraint. I am retired, but money is not a problem. Well, maybe mentally it is a problem. The issue for me is justifying paying 2 or 3 or 4 times the price for the same product, just because I reside in a different country. So, where as I could easily live in USA, Canada, Europe (etc), why would I live in a country where an average dinner for 2 in a restaurant costs $100 when I could have maybe different food but taste and good for $17. There are 100's of examples. And of course we all know that there are pros and cons, likes and dislikes, personal choices ... this is what makes us all different. So for me, my family of 3 live very well on less than $2000. In Canada, this would cost me over $6000. I could afford to do it, but the mental anguish makes me economically challenged and so I choose to stay here. Until Thailand becomes too expensive or I stumble on another country that is better.

Currently I am looking at Malaysia, Philippines, Columbia and Uruguay.

From the sounds of it liveinlos, has accumulated many assets here, and possibly the economic challenge for him will be to unload the assets at a good price if he so chooses to move on. My wife was on the buy a house kick, any house, for a long time. But then after the flood, it was buy a house that will not get flooded. So, I would think that the flooded house is going to be a huge challenge.

But for sure, the country seems to be regressing!

[chassamui]

liveinlos - Many thanks for such a detailed response. If you still have several years left to secure your family's future then it is difficult to find a way out.

Andy - I don't think posters are actually whining, rather putting in place the arguments for staying or leaving. I'm a cup half full sort of guy mostly.

Sabang - From following your excellent construction thread, I guess you have many years of experience and have made your life the way you want it to be. I too enjoy the peace of the countryside.

The contributions have been helpful overall and I still have time to consider things before coming to a conclusion. It has certainly helped clarify a few things for me. I may be a cup half full sort of guy but I am also pragmatic and will err on the side of caution. I have few assets here that could not be liquidated quickly if the need arises.
I suspect my views differ to most posters because I am retired and others have vested interests here.

[Loy Toy]

I could not stay here in Thailand without a family, a job and normal daily life commitments to keep my going and more accurately disciplined.

Whilst I do run off the rails at times it is the people at home that gets me back on course and enjoy where I am.

[misskit]

Chas, there is a small international expat community forming up in Chaing Dao. It's a bit remote, a couple of hours away from the city of Chiang Mai. Very beautiful area in the mountains. Touristy this time of year only and numbers are small relative to other parts of Thailand.

Check it out when you make your trip to Chiang Mai.

[chassamui]

Check it out when you make your trip to Chiang Mai.

Thanks for that misskit.

[Butterfly]

Building goes on apace with little regard for supporting infrastructure. Immigration offices make up their own interpretation of rules for foreigners. Examples of good customer service and smart marketing and after sales service are so rare they make the news.

if you are start asking those questions, then you know it's time to move on

Thailand is fine as a travel destination,

for retirement, it's debatable, I wouldn't consider it a prime location for retirement, but I am sure some arguments can be found for it.

A friend from HK wants to retire in Phuket, I strongly advised him not to. Don't these people read the news about Phuket scams or do they live in a parallel world ?

[Butterfly]

Chass, you are a Brit, right ?

shouldn't you be in Pattaya or Spain like the rest of them ?

[Rural Surin]

Chass, you are a Brit, right ?

shouldn't you be in Pattaya or Spain like the rest of them ?

....or, even England.

I suspect nowhere in the world would be satisfactory.
Consider the source. You know the type.

[Loy Toy]

The OP question is such a personal one and particularly as everyone is different.

I think that Chas has outstayed his time here in Thailand and should move on to new pastures that offer new challenges.

He is also quite lucky to be able to make such lifestyle choices as most people get caught trapped in their environment and cannot do a thing about getting out of it.