Thread: Romanization of Falong/Farang/Farung

^ and your post has little bearing on your original statement, which DrBob destroyed


the problem with Thai is that there is no real official method of transliteration

so depending on which textbook you pick up, you may get variations

but Farang is pretty clear!! Falang is a possibility

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Regardless of the word or terminology, one simply cannot attach romanized characteristics to non-European languages.

Malay was originally written in Jawi (an arabic based script) until it was replaced (with few exceptions) by the romanized Rumi script.

So, in fact you absolutely CAN attach romanized characteristics to non-European languages.......

And Vietnamese and Turkish.

Originally Posted by charleyboy

How would you 'romanize' tones?

Just asking.

Look at how the Vietnamese do it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_language

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by charleyboy

How would you 'romanize' tones?

Just asking.

Phonetics.

And it still doesn't come true.

RS,

Are you stating tones can be shown by phonetically spelling the words?

If so, could you show me how you would phonetically spelling the following Thai
words which mean totally different things depending on tone?

khao (enter)
khao (rice)
khao (mountain)
khao (he/she)
khao (white)

RickThai

It's not that it is impossible to write Thai using phonetics, incl. tones (there already are several very good systems out there that are at times even better at representing how Thai sounds than the Thai script itself ), the problem is that everyone uses their own "system" which makes it very hard to communicate.

The Thai government probably should have done something like the Chinese did with pinyin: come with an adequate system of phonetics and push it forward to make it the standard.

But they didn't, and now were left with a bit of a Babylonical mess

And as long as were left with that mess it doesn't really matter to me if ฝรั่ง is written as farang, falang, farung, falung, falong, or whatever other way you choose to write it.
To me it's pretty useless arguing which way is right or wrong, as long as I know you mean ฝรั่ง I'm already happy

Originally Posted by RickThai

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by charleyboy

How would you 'romanize' tones?

Just asking.

Phonetics.

And it still doesn't come true.

RS,

Are you stating tones can be shown by phonetically spelling the words?

If so, could you show me how you would phonetically spelling the following Thai
words which mean totally different things depending on tone?

khao (enter)
khao (rice)
khao (mountain)
khao (he/she)
khao (white)

RickThai

Yet. you'll continue to see these words through an English phonetic spelling which still has no relation towards how they are spelled [and pronouced] in Thai.

Your [et al] insistence that there is some sort of relationship between the rwo is simply astounding.

Thick.

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by RickThai

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by charleyboy

How would you 'romanize' tones?

Just asking.

Phonetics.

And it still doesn't come true.

RS,

Are you stating tones can be shown by phonetically spelling the words?

If so, could you show me how you would phonetically spelling the following Thai
words which mean totally different things depending on tone?

khao (enter)
khao (rice)
khao (mountain)
khao (he/she)
khao (white)

RickThai

Yet. you'll continue to see these words through an English phonetic spelling which still has no relation towards how they are spelled [and pronouced] in Thai.

Your [et al] insistence that there is some sort of relationship between the rwo is simply astounding.

Thick.

That has to be the most NON ANSWER to a simple question that I have ever seen on any forum. You stated that you can show tones (as used in Thai) phonetically, and yet when I asked you how, you replied with a totally evasive rambling about how they are spelled in Thai which has nothing to do with how you would phonetically show the tones with an English spelling.

If you know how to spell the word in Thai script and understand all the tone marks and tone rules; that still has absolutely nothing to do with the Engliah romantization of tones.

Most serious English transliterations of Thai include some kind of mark (or lack of) to indicate the tone of the word, not different phonetical spellings.

I assume "Thick" is a word you are very familiar with and has no bearing on me or my post, or do you use the word "thick" whenever you do not understand something?

At any rate, you have answered my question by lack of a real answer.

RickThai

Originally Posted by RickThai

If so, could you show me how you would phonetically spelling the following Thai
words which mean totally different things depending on tone?

khao (enter)
khao (rice)
khao (mountain)
khao (he/she)
khao (white)

RickThai

Actually, the word for "mountain" and "he/she" is one and the same เขา.

Although "mountain" is usually referred to as "Poo Khao".

Just saying

Originally Posted by pescator

Originally Posted by RickThai

If so, could you show me how you would phonetically spelling the following Thai
words which mean totally different things depending on tone?

khao (enter)
khao (rice)
khao (mountain)
khao (he/she)
khao (white)

RickThai

Actually, the word for "mountain" and "he/she" is one and the same เขา.

Although "mountain" is usually referred to as "Poo Khao".

Just saying

I know the Thai words for mountain and he/she are spelled the same in Thai.

However they have different tones (as does all the words in my list). That is why I selected the "khao" words for RS to show me how he/she phonetically shows the tones when transliterating to English.

RickThai

They don`t have different tones. But it would take someone literate in thai to know this

Originally Posted by benbaaa

If you wanted to Romanize (is that a real word, BTW?), you could do it very simply, I'd have thought.

'khao - high tone
,khao - low tone
khao - mid tone
/khao - rising tone
\khao -falling tone

Obviously, you wouldn't use a comma for low, but a short vertical line in low position. And for the falling and rising, you could use the two French accents (acute for rising and grave for falling) on the first or stressed vowel. Don't think my phone can do this, but it could easily be fixed.

There are plenty of ways to show Thai tones using various symbols (carots, etc), but Rural Surin stated he/she could show the tones using "phonetic spelling" (which I doubt).


RickThai

Originally Posted by Zooheekock

However they have different tones (as does all the words in my list).

Not quite.

khao (enter) is เข้า. Falling with a short vowel.
khao (rice) ข้าว is ข้าว. Falling with a long vowel.
khao (mountain) is เขา. Rising with a short vowel.
khao (he/she) is เขา or เค้า. Either rising with a short vowel or, more normally, high with a short vowel.
khao (white) is ขาว. Rising with a long vowel.

I don't think you can get a full house with khao but you could have had news (ข่าว) to at least get a low tone.

And it's an unfortunate choice of words because you can give fully accurate IPA transcriptions of these which only use standard Roman letters. They will all be either [kʰaw] or [kʰaːw] (with the relevant IPA tone marks).

----

^ Or you could use numbers, as in pinyin.

See my above response.

RckThai

Originally Posted by DrB0b

.
I doubt that either of you have a clue what "phonetic spelling" actually means. If you did you would know that phonetics has symbols to cover all tones used in spoken languages.

Actually, as I'm damn sure neither of you know what the phonetic alphabet is, here's a helpful picture. Tones are bottom right;

Apparently not every dictionary agrees with your definition of "phonetic spelling":

Phonetic spelling is the representation of vocal sounds which express pronunciations of words. It is a system of spelling in which each letter represents invariably the same spoken sound. Some schools may use phonetic pronunciations to help children learn the spelling of difficult words, for instance, WEDNESDAY = Wed Nes Day. Phonetic spelling constitutes an alteration of ordinary spelling that better represents the spoken language, that employs only characters of the regular alphabet, and that is used in a context of conventional spelling.

That is an interesting chart of the "Phonetic Alphabet" though.

RickThai

^ Is that double Dutch?

Originally Posted by charleyboy

^ Is that double Dutch?

Phonetic English, I'm afraid.

Game, set and match to DrBob

Heck, my brain hurts just trying to read that, DrBob.

I'm not afraid to admit that's well outside my area of expertise (or even general knowledge)

Originally Posted by kingwilly

Heck, my brain hurts just trying to read that, DrBob.

I'm not afraid to admit that's well outside my area of expertise (or even general knowledge)

Yup, mine also. I could pick out "stupidity" I think, which seems likely if he is posting in response to RickThai.

Must admit, it is not often you see a poster get demolished as frequently and comprehensively as RT, and yet he still keeps comming back......

Originally Posted by Zooheekock

don't start bollocking on about it as if you do.

One of the things I do like about the board is the surprising degree of real expertise lurking in posters. Anyone bullshitting is likely to get called on it, and its fun watching people walk into the meat grinder.....

Originally Posted by nidhogg

One of the things I do like about the board is the surprising degree of real expertise lurking in posters. Anyone bullshitting is likely to get called on it, and its fun watching people walk into the meat grinder.....

Quite true.

Think Drivingtowank, think Ent and Latin Prancer, think Hasum man and that flouride nutter?