Thread: The best way to learn Isaan thai

many things that aren't good for them. sweets and religion to name two.

^
Seconded, amongst hiso, normal Thais just find it amusing... especially if you can "wao Lao dudu" etc...

I learnt Lao before Thai, and habitually come out with "baw ben nyang" instead of "mai ben rai", and at best, it gets a surprised giggle; at worst when in the UK amongst Chinese fake Thai hiso students, sneers and ostracisation.
One porker at one uni came out with "oh, i think you made a funny noise, maybe you did say thai correctly" - and yes they pretend they can't understand Lao, but they almost all can.
To them, it equates to low class trash, bumpkins, hookers, crims, poor people etc... when in reality, Laos and Isan Lao are arguably the only authentic Thais in Thailand - Thai being a completely constructed and artificial identity - and successful marketing brand.

If you want a force multiplier to a hiso Chink Thai when in the UK, try asking them in Lao if they want to go to a cheaper restaurant
(they're not all bad, I have a couple of good chinkthai chums ;p)

Originally Posted by diypartner

I went to Laos with a couple of Thai friends, they spoke a dialect of Issan aswellas Central Thai, said they could speak Lao no problem, could they fuk... The Laos had to speak Thai with them (they pick it up off TV which is mostly Thai, or was at that time).

As with Lanna (northern dialiects) There are some strains of Lao in parts of Lao that get very dialectal... I remember once being at a party in the UK, and some lad was chewing his jaw and a weird sound was coming out that completely lacked consonants... I leant over to him, and in all sincerity said: "So how long have you been in our country?"
It turned out, he was from Essex, and that southern apelike grunting and ullulating was allegedly English.

Laotian is not a word, they are Lao, and the country is called Laos because on a map someone once wrote the plural of Lao, as in more than one Lao lives here.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Laotian is not a word, they are Lao, and the country is called Laos because on a map someone once wrote the plural of Lao, as in more than one Lao lives here.

It is the adjective to show that something/somebody is from Laos. As such it can be used to call inhabitants Laotians.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Personally I can't see a single reason even for a foreigner living in a one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere to learn Issan Thai.

Yes, understanding what people around you are saying is SO overrated. Just stare vacantly out the window while they talk. Remember to blink occasionally, your eyes will dry out if you don't. Every so often lick your lips, too. They'll get dry if you don't.

Depending on where you are the Issan dialect is notably different. This makes the Issan “language a "one trick pony" as far as usefulness in communicating to Thais in what passes for their language when foreigners open their mouths.

It's slightly different. People from Korat and Udon understand each other 98% of the time. No different than Boston and Atlanta. They don't expect foreigners to speak their language perfectly and they're almost never disappointed.

I don't think any Issan-ites who're in Bangkok would speak anything but Bangkok Thai except to their closest friends.

You would be wrong. Laborers in Bangkok don't make an effort to "hide" where they're from, they wear their language and food as a badge of honor -- in defiance. Educated Isaan migrants to Bangkok will do anything, including changing their name, and daily bleach baths, to mask their identity.

To me, Central Thai is the one to know, it can be used country wide, is universally understood and is the one foreigners can get the most mileage outta here.

Standard Thai is a decent fallback, I don't disagree. But if you live in Isaan, have a house and family there, have lived there for 20 years and only occasionally spend much time in Bangkok, what's the point in speaking differently than everyone around you?

Different strokes...

To the poster known as "Panty Hamster":
Dunno about the laborers where you are in Bangkok, but there are three BIG buildings going up near me and the workers livin' on site in those tin shacks sure AIN'T Thai, they're Burmese or Cambodian. The Thai supervisors show up early in the morning. Now I have seen some Thais in the back of trucks wearin' construction shirts, being carted off somewhere but they don't exactly appear to be "wearin' their language or their preference for food as a badge of honor" <- really though, I'll give you points for makin' me laugh.

Perhaps there's something to be said if a foreigner is gonna stay in some one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere, as far as speaking or at least understanding the local dialect. Interestingly enough, when I visited my Thai friends family in rural Ubon Ratchathani, I told him his family had to speak Central Thai or English around me. I didn't get a single objection from anyone, although no one spoke what passes for engrish here, at least it was Central Thai, and that was fine for me. So I still stand by my observation that nearly every Thai in this country can speak and understand Central Thai just fine IF you compel them to. .

I guess I should revise my statement to say, if you plan on actually traveling around the country and interacting with Thais; the language which will give you the most mileage would be Central Thai.

BACK ON-TOPIC:
Still the topic of this thread was learning Issan Thai, so in reply to that query, there are a few books out on the subject. Benjawan Becker has a small booklet and C/D called Northeastern Thai, and I think there's a company called "It's for Thai" which has a set of books which teach "common Issan" (if there is such a thing).

Don't get me wrong or mis-remember what I said; I don't look down on Issan Thais any more or any less than I look down on any Thai here. I'm an equal opportunity discriminator in that regard. I routinely discriminate against people without much regard for race creed or color. 100% American; born, bred and corn fed, that's me!

Don't get me wrong or mis-remember what I said; I don't look down on Issan Thais any more or any less than I look down on any Thai here. I'm an equal opportunity discriminator in that regard. I routinely discriminate against people without much regard for race creed or color. 100% American; born, bred and corn fed, that's me!

Learning Thai language is good. Learning to live in Thailand is great. They're not the same. Your Thai "language" will always suffer if you look at those you're speaking with as inferior. Yes, it's that simple.

If you want to be a "highly-educated, I know better than you cow-humping kunts, but I can't discern a "kaw-kai from a kaw-kwai," cause I'm a fucking retard, well -- good luck to you mate.

Well, that was more than a little "coarse" doncha think? I never said I was "highly educated" although I freely admit that I’m “highly opinionated”, and btw I can tell a ก from a ค (and a ส from a ซ, a ศ and a ษ too, but so what)

I never said I looked at the Thais as inferior, but said I discriminate against EVERYONE EQUALLY, so don't make this about the Thais just because I choose to live here. It's my experience stupidity knows no race, has no borders or boundaries, and no country has the market cornered on it. I've met stupid people in every country I've lived in so far.

Oh, and FWIW: I wouldn't have invested nearly 4 years of learning to speak/understand, read/write & type Thai if I didn't have a place in my heart for the Thais (even if it is just a very small place).

I initially undertook learning Thai because I realized 63+ million people in the country seemed to speak/understand Thai just fine, and they all couldn't be smarter than me, (some sure but not every last one of these people). Now some might interpret that as I learned Thai to spite the Thais, but I like to think I learned Thai in spite of the Thais. Learning to communicate with them effectively in Thai cut down on the time it takes me to get things accomplished here. It's been an uphill battle, but for me, one that was certainly well worth it.

I'll also add that I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so if I can learn to speak something which resembles Thai close enough so that the Thais respond in kind, just about anyone who's willing to invest the time can too. Stop makin' excuses, and get on with learning the language. ..

Ease up there "Panty Hamster", I ain't casting aspersions at you or your Thai language ability, what would possess you to do that to me? I’m truly sorry if I’m not a card carrying member of the “sheep-like, sock puppet, wanna-b-thai” brigade of foreigners so typical here in Thailand. I tend to see things as they are and I lost my “rose colored glasses” a LONG time ago. Still I like living here, so go figure.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Perhaps there's something to be said if a foreigner is gonna stay in some one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere, as far as speaking or at least understanding the local dialect. Interestingly enough, when I visited my Thai friends family in rural Ubon Ratchathani, I told him his family had to speak Central Thai or English around me. I didn't get a single objection from anyone, although no one spoke what passes for engrish here, at least it was Central Thai, and that was fine for me. So I still stand by my observation that nearly every Thai in this country can speak and understand Central Thai just fine IF you compel them to. .

From my observation you are right.
However, there is a difference between being able to and wanting to.
Nobody in "my" village in Nakhon upcountry ever spoke central thai to me even though I was speaking central thai to them.
In hindsight, that was not entirely true. Every once in a while if I were in private they would speak central thai to me.
My wife offered this explanation: they feel shy to speak central thai when they are in their local community. Dunno.

But after a while it got a bit awkward, so i switched to the local lingo (to the best of my ability anyway)
It was hugely appreciated that a foreigner did this effort and I found the response very rewarding and encouraging.

And of course, if one meets a former Isaan village dweller living outside of Isaan and speaks any Isaan dialect to them, it invariably brings a huge smile on their faces.

2 days ago, I spend 6 hours in a karaoke joint in Samut Prakarn.
The owners were from Sakon, my previous residence.
They were thrilled that I spoke their dialect.
It was my last night out before leaving for farangland, so I had no problems treating the entire staff (4 persons) for drinks and snacks.
They would not hear of it, we pay 50/50.
It became a big night out and I got rather shitfaced before heading home in the wee hours.
But true to their word, we shared the bill.

So for many reasons, I think it is worthwhile to learn an Isaan dialect.

I visited my Thai friends family in rural Ubon Ratchathani, I told him his family had to speak Central Thai or English around me.

Really? You travel half way around the globe, into a rural village, and tell people how they should speak.

I don't ... I really ... I have no words.

Originally Posted by Panty Hamster

Really? You travel half way around the globe, into a rural village, and tell people how they should speak.

I don't ... I really ... I have no words.

Well, it's better to do that than shoot them or drop napalm on them, isn't it ?

^ Obsess much? You've gotten quite surly lately.

Speaking Lao in bangkok goes over quite well with the chrome pole molesters and Taxi scumbags who are for the most part issan types but the Hi So Thai dont like it one bit , as pointed out by pescator.
Handy when youre on the prowl in soi cowboy though, Although dont expect any riveting conversations regardless of how good your Lao is , You will still have to pay the bar fine anyway so might as well speak Foking swahili eh

I saw a book and CD on Issan Thai somewhere. Se-ed or 7-11?

Originally Posted by Panty Hamster

Really? You travel half way around the globe, into a rural village, and tell people how they should speak.
I don't ... I really ... I have no words.

Like I said previously, I've yet to run across a single Thai in all my travels the length and breadth of the entire country who is unable to speak Central Thai.

It is after all the "government approved version of Thai" and the ONLY version taught in schools, spoken on television, in government offices and used on almost all FM radio stations.

Now that Thais don't want to speak it, or that they're "uncomfortable" speaking it are horses of a different color. It's not that they can't and what ever excuse they wanna hide behind well it just isn't my problem. I gave 'em a choice, English or Central Thai, and they took it. The people I was invited to go with knew before I left that it was gonna be that way and yet still invited me, so figure that out yourself.

You must have me confused for one of those "wanna-b-thai-sock-puppet-foreigners" I see wandering around the country. The ones so afraid of "ruffling the feathers" of the Thais that it wobbles my mind how they can live here "without a spine".

So to answer "PantyHamster", yes; I went to a one buffalo village in Nakhon Nowhere Thailand and told the people there to either speak English or Central Thai or not bother talkin' to me. Any more questions?

Still the topic of this thread was about learning to speak Issan Thai. As I said, there is a set of books out called not surprisingly Speak Isaan Thai. Google "LearnSpeakThai" just like that and you'll get the link.

Good Luck,

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by toddaniels

I've yet to run across a single Thai in all my travels the length and breadth of the entire country who is unable to speak Central Thai.

I'll arrange an honorary membership at the over 60 village social club I belong to here in my ville. Plenty of aging single Thais who would love to make your acquaintance. Mind, speaking Central Thai to them will be responded with nods, smiles, vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking, and lip licking.

Might this be a Norton diplomatic way of explaining to Mr. Todd that he doesn't know what the fcuk he's talking about...??

The usual blanket of dreamy standards that don't really exist...

WOW, quite the harsh replies to what is an honest observation on my part. I mean don't hold back, tell me what you really think. ..

OFF-TOPIC:
Thankfully, I stopped carin' about what other people thought of me a LONG time ago as it was getting in the way of me being me. I found out if you alienate everyone equally right outta the gate, you don't hafta really be all too concerned what you say. It makes communication that much easier. I always tell people; Hey, I'm NOT talkin' down to you, I'm tryin' to talk to you on my level. Gimme your hand I'll pull you up here.

Nods, smiles and vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking and lip licking too! Must be a great place to spend some time "socializing" with old people. Reminds me of visiting my grandfather in the "old age home" back in the US. Sounds like all that's missing is the drooling and adult diapers!

There is a BIG difference with people "pretending" to not understand, being "uncomfortable" with speaking, and their ability to speak and or understand Central Thai if push comes to shove.

BACK-ON-TOPIC:
Still, if someone's wantin' to learn Isaan Thai, those two books I recommended would get 'em started in the right direction. . After all that's what this topic is about right, ways to learn Isaan Thai.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Nods, smiles and vacant stares out the window, rapid blinking and lip licking too! Sounds like all that's missing is the drooling and adult diapers!

Plagiarized from Panty Hamster but as you note plenty of drooling. Hard not to when your mouth is full of beetle nut.

Point of my "offer" was to acquaint you with the realities in rural Isaan. All folks in Isaan do not speak Central Thai. Many over the age of 50 have no formal education. All regardless of education speak Lao as they call it to communicate with each other on a daily basis.

You are correct. Central Thai is taught in schools so those who attend are literate in the language. Note, literacy is about level of 4th grade.

When the kids go home they speak only Lao (Isaan Thai as the government prefers to call it). I live not far from Lao. Folks from where I live find it far easier to communicate when in Lao than when in Bangkok.

So here I am. Living in a Lao speaking community. Reckon best I at least learn enough to understand and express myself. Just a personal ochoice of course.

Originally Posted by toddaniels

Reminds me of visiting my grandfather in the "old age home" back in the US.

Indeed. A whole lot of wisdom and local history to be learned. All one has to do is understand and listen. Never know, might learn something new.

Originally Posted by Norton

Folks from where I live find it far easier to communicate when in Lao than when in Bangkok.

Udon must be more 'developed' than Roi Et.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Udon must be more 'developed' than Roi Et

Excepting the superior sophistication and development level of Roiet expat's compared to the primitives who reside in Udon.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Udon must be more 'developed' than Roi Et

Excepting the superior sophistication and development level of Roiet expat's compared to the primitives who reside in Udon.

When we went to Vientiane a couple of years ago, The Midget wasn't comfortable with the language like I thought she would be. She wasn't being obstinate and negative because they were Laotians, she just took a while to adjust as it was a lot more different from here brand of 'Laos' than she expected and was used to.

Here is a little background on language usage in Mrs. Borey's village:


When I first visited in the early 70's, only Laotian was spoken there. Virtually all of the older generation of villagers were born in Laos, and immigrated to Thailand as a group about 50 years earlier. Since they are Roman Catholic, the village tended to be more insular than most. They had very little to no Thai schooling, and had little contact with Thai speakers. For most, even a ten kilometer trip to the district capital only took place a few times a year.


Mrs. Borey's generation was schooled in Thai, but among themselves only spoke Lao (now called Isaan). Thai TV was only just starting to be available then, and the huge improvement being made at that time to roads made travel outside the village more common. So her generation spoke Thai, but certainly not comfortably nor well, unless they had travelled to one of the big cities for work.


The present generation are well schooled in Thai, travel outside the village a lot, and are constantly exposed to Thai in the form of TV, radio, and movies. It appears to me that they speak Thai better than Isaan. When they speak to a farang or even a Thai from outside their village, they speak Thai. But still, when in their home village among their friends, they speak Isaan almost exclusively.


So, when travelling around NE Thailand, it is very nice to be able to communicate in Central Thai. You will be universally understood. But when sitting around having a beer with guys my age in the village, I find a working knowledge of Isaan dialect to be essential.

I stand humbly erected, errr I mean corrected!! Environment is everything and if indeed your "target audience" speaks Isaan Thai, well that's the lingo you're most likely to get the best "bang-4-the-baht" from when interacting with them.

The Thai guys my age who live/work here in Bangkok near my house ALL hail from Isaan, yet all speak Central Thai just fine. Then again they've lived/worked in Bangkok for 10-15 years now, so I'd imagine even they've adopted the "when in Bangkok speak Central Thai" adage (if only to stop the overt racism Bangkokians have for Isaan-ites). Don't get me wrong, most of them speak Isaan and the guy from Surin speaks Cambodian too.

I was only relating my own personal experience that Thais, the country over, seemed more than willing to converse in Central Thai with me during my travels around this country. Then again, the choice was speak Central Thai or English, so in a way that backed 'em into a corner.

I agree with "Borey the Bald" totally as far as generation by generation you can see the increased use of Central Thai due to access to the Thai government education system.

Thankfully, (for the younger Thais) we're also seeing an equally exponential growth in Thais using English; which is far more important on the world stage for the Thais at this stage of the game.

Gone are the days when Thailand was insulated and could afford to adopt the pretentious (yet totally predictably Thai) mindset of; "I'm Thai so I don't need to speak English".

Given the way the Thai youth of today, even in one buffalo villages in Nakhon Nowhere, are connected to the internet; I think this next generation is gonna really come into itself in regards to finding a 'balance' between their innate "Thai-ness" and the need for English as far as their future is concerned.