Jakarta's Nazi Cafe Reopens

[VocalNeal]

It is a pretty and colourful flag and the uniforms are by Hugo Boss.

Did the Nazis ever do anything negative towards the Indonesians?

One could argue that by invading Poland the Nazis encouraged Japan which lead to Indonesia's independence from the Dutch.

[kingwilly]

It is a pretty and colourful flag and the uniforms are by Hugo Boss.

Did the Nazis ever do anything negative towards the Indonesians?

One could argue that by invading Poland the Nazis encouraged Japan which lead to Indonesia's independence from the Dutch.

I'm trying to decide if you are parodying an Indonesian reply, in which case you are spot on.

Many Indonesians do think the Nazis were good, because the Arab-Isreali conflict has given them the impression that Jews are are fighting against Islam and are therefore bad.

Many Indonesians have also forgotten how many Indonesians were killed by Japanese during the war, because the Japanese are seen, as you mention, as supporters and saviors from the Dutch Colonialists.

In both cases, Indonesian History Education is sorely lacking and partially to blame.

[VocalNeal]

I'm trying to decide if you are parodying an Indonesian reply, in which case you are spot on.

I used to live there. Japanese were not very nice to Indonesians but are viewed as the overthrowers of the Dutch.

[kingwilly]

Agreed.

[cyrille]

Many Indonesians do think the Nazi's were good

[VocalNeal]

Cyrille you have to stop thinking with a Western bias.

This is Asia they have minds of their own and have experienced a different history to the west. They have opinions based on their history not other's history. This does not make their opinions wrong, simply different.

That you do not understand is your problem not theirs.

[cyrille]

Cyrille you have to stop thinking with a Western bias.

Neal, you have to start reading more carefully.

I just find this whole thing really odd.

I've lived in Asia for long enough to just leave it at that.

[VocalNeal]

Cyrille you have to stop thinking with a Western bias.

Neal, you have to start reading more carefully.

I just find this whole thing really odd.

I've lived in Asia for long enough to just leave it at that.

So why the childish yellow card? Don't like Willy or don't like the Indonesians liking Nazi memorabilia?

You find the whole thing odd? I find it odd that people not remotely associated with Indonesia would even bother about what Indonesians do locally.

But hey!

[kingwilly]

So why the childish yellow card? Don't like Willy or don't like the Indonesians liking Nazi memorabilia?

There's a third option.

I figured it out, tis all good.

[neemo]

It's fun to see TEFLer's getting worked up over an apostrophe.

[Necron99]

So why the childish yellow card? Don't like Willy or don't like the Indonesians liking Nazi memorabilia?

There's a third option.

I figured it out, tis all good.

'tis.

[Lancelot]

Good for him.
World, get over it.

Yeah, like the Brits opening a Comfort Women Club in London. I'm sure the Chinese and other Asian nations that experienced the Tojo Games would really dig it.

Easy to get over stuff when it doesn't involve El Numero Uno

[Necron99]

Good for him.
World, get over it.

Yeah, like the Brits opening a Comfort Women Club in London. I'm sure the Chinese and other Asian nations that experienced the Tojo Games would really dig it.

Easy to get over stuff when it doesn't involve El Numero Uno

Not really, England is loaded with museums that display Nazi gear.
What's the outrage? That he was profiting from it?
So has every war movie made since 1945, most of which are not historical.
Documentaries usually make money also, ask the owners of the Hitler, sorry, History Channel.
You could claim the movies and docos are somewhat educational.
Like Kelly's Heroes, educates you on how during the war you could go behind lines and rob a bank with the help of a commander of a SS Tiger tank.
Or Dirty Rotten Bastards, that was educational wasn't it, what was Tarrentino's message there?.

Or Mel Brooks, he got lots of laughs out of the Nazis with The Producers.
Or Hogans Heroes, showing us all what a slapstick time could be had in a POW Camp.
'Ello 'Ello? Relive what it was like in occupied France with the zany incompetent Nazis.
Dad's Army, no Nazis no show.
Combat! That was all for education.
Endless list really, and lets not even talk about comic books, toys, models, video games etc. Best selling strategy game, Panzer General. You play the Nazis and get a chance to do it right.

All non for profit educational ventures were they?
Where was the Jewish Protection League when all that was going on?
What's that? Oh, making millions in Hollywood? Ok then, shame on him for turning a buck on the swastika and not being Jewish.

World needs to get over the faux outrage, if you don't like it, don't eat there. Simple.
Catholic Church offends me, do I run around campaigning for it's closure? Where is the world's outrage for the systematic abuse and deaths it has caused over the years while reaping vast profits? All churches offend me, so I don't go in them. See simple.

[luckyjim]

faux outrage

Are you suggesting that the Holocaust was fake, as in "faux"?

[thaimeme]

It is a pretty and colourful flag and the uniforms are by Hugo Boss.

Did the Nazis ever do anything negative towards the Indonesians?

One could argue that by invading Poland the Nazis encouraged Japan which lead to Indonesia's independence from the Dutch.

One could argue that Indonesia was never that dependent upon the Dutch.
Their presence wasn't that overwhelming nor influential.

Going through the motions.

[Necron99]

faux outrage

Are you suggesting that the Holocaust was fake, as in "faux"?

No, just the continual outrage.
Both Stalin and Mao killed multitudes more than Hitler ever did.
Where's the worlds collective angst there? In Sydney there is a large oriental furniture shop called Chairman Mao's, you can also buy Mao "memorabilia" What about the estimated 40 million he killed in his cultural revolution? but his little red book was so funny it was a running gag in a popular sitcom.

[thaimeme]

faux outrage

Are you suggesting that the Holocaust was fake, as in "faux"?

No, just the continual outrage.
Both Stalin and Mao killed multitudes more than Hitler ever did.
Where's the worlds collective angst there? In Sydney there is a large oriental furniture shop called Chairman Mao's, you can also buy Mao "memorabilia" What about the estimated 40 million he killed in his cultural revolution? but his little red book was so funny it was a running gag in a popular sitcom.

The promoted and repeated plight of the Jewish [et al] Holocaust has company as such applies to historic systematic genocidal periods:

Pol Pot's Cambodia.
The Spanish throughout the Americas.
American slaughter of Filipinos
The British and French during their frenzied colonial conquests.
Belgium and their African adventures.
The overlooked massacres of "Australian" aboriginals.
The Japanese in China.
America's systematic slaughter of native inhabitants.
Africa's numerous and contemporary genocides.
Saddam's Iraq [to a lesser degree]

...it goes on and on.
Just as horrific as the purposeful deaths of the chosen folks [a Eurocentric perspective] during that most consciously promoted time and event.

[cyrille]

So why the childish yellow card? Don't like Willy or don't like the Indonesians liking Nazi memorabilia?

You find the whole thing odd? I find it odd that people not remotely associated with Indonesia would even bother about what Indonesians do locally.

Seems to me that your vacuous, parochial views are indeed very in tune with Asians, but unfortunately only the rather dimwitted ones.

Willy understands what the yellow card means. You clearly don't.

Try and find someone who isn't in the choir if you want to go preaching, dick.

[cyrille]

..it goes on and on.

doesn't it just.

one day the relevance of that bunch of atrocities that don't have cafes dedicated to them may become clear.

but I won't hold my breath.

[kingwilly]

It is a pretty and colourful flag and the uniforms are by Hugo Boss.

Did the Nazis ever do anything negative towards the Indonesians?

One could argue that by invading Poland the Nazis encouraged Japan which lead to Indonesia's independence from the Dutch.

One could argue that Indonesia was never that dependent upon the Dutch.
Their presence wasn't that overwhelming nor influential.

Going through the motions.

You really do not know what you are talking about, Jeff. Indonesia did not exist prior to the Dutch. And the dutch influence is still felt today in a myriad of ways, not least Indonesia's rather immature hangover with all things 'colonial'.

[Exit Strategy]

faux outrage

Are you suggesting that the Holocaust was fake, as in "faux"?

No, just the continual outrage.
Both Stalin and Mao killed multitudes more than Hitler ever did.
Where's the worlds collective angst there? In Sydney there is a large oriental furniture shop called Chairman Mao's, you can also buy Mao "memorabilia" What about the estimated 40 million he killed in his cultural revolution? but his little red book was so funny it was a running gag in a popular sitcom.

The promoted and repeated plight of the Jewish [et al] Holocaust has company as such applies to historic systematic genocidal periods:

Pol Pot's Cambodia.
The Spanish throughout the Americas.
American slaughter of Filipinos
The British and French during their frenzied colonial conquests.
Belgium and their African adventures.
The overlooked massacres of "Australian" aboriginals.
The Japanese in China.
America's systematic slaughter of native inhabitants.
Africa's numerous and contemporary genocides.
Saddam's Iraq [to a lesser degree]

...it goes on and on.
Just as horrific as the purposeful deaths of the chosen folks [a Eurocentric perspective] during that most consciously promoted time and event.

Well said.

[Exit Strategy]

dutch influence is still felt today

Is it? Some examples might be helpful? Or is it like Macau and Portuguese.... nobody cares you left

[kingwilly]

Colonial is bad, dutch is bad. The current circus around Jakarta International School is, in part, fueled by anti colonial sentiment.

[kingwilly]

The entire (unwieldy) system of officialdom was set up by the Dutch. The system of law has a dutch influence. The drainage, canals and dams were built during dutch times (and have not been improved since, including Jakarta's lack of a proper sewage system).

[kingwilly]

Indonesians claim the the country's corruption problems stem from the Dutch administration.