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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    Sorry I dropped out from this thread and others for a couple of days
    Minor importance - take care

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunk View Post
    I will try the guppies. You sparked my interest is fish pond, but I will wait until the monsoons are over before I start. This is what I want. I will keep the pump and filter simple, I don't care to raise koi fish, I'm not a fish person I just want a waterfall and a place for birds to drink.Attachment 70912
    Nice example , and one that is easily made with a pond liner IMO.
    I would not mind making one of those if I did not have the one I have , and or had more room.
    Pile a bunch of dirt to make a small hill in a corner. Dig a small hole on the top and a bigger one on the bottom, line it up with pond liner, set a few stones around it and in it , stuck a bunch of rocks between them with a liner under them not to lose water and you are good to go. A pump , perhaps solar would bring water to the top so it create the waterfall.
    Every nursery in Thailand might have rocks , but not in Khon Kaen. Khon Kaen is flat and all clay, I could not find a rock to kill myself, and since any of the rocks available for sale were brought from elsewhere, they were expensive. But as I said I did find some for free. Of all the prices, free is the best price LOL .
    There is a reason I designed the cement pond the way I did.
    There is another thread titled "Man Cave" or something like that, perhaps I will post there, but the pond is part of my "Man Cave" or should I say , My "Man hangout space" .
    There was an area under the staircase that was wasted space because it was too low. Behind the staircase and Under the house, there was an are that was IMO a perfect, cool place to hung out in the shade. So I made the pond m half way under the stairs and halfway out of the stairs. I also build an outside kitchen/ bar , ceiling fan, and plan to build or purchase a barbeque as soon as the wife releases the funds. I makes a perfect place for me to read my books, or annoy the dogs playing my guitar at which after all the years of scratching it I am unusually bad at.
    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-reading-room-jpg
    The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up.

  3. #53
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    That looks perfect!

    Just be careful where you place the BBQ as you do not want to smoke out the area, or the upstairs windows.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    I always liked Koi fish but reading the maintenance here and on the internet I think I will scrap the idea.
    I used the term "Koi Pond" because it is a term we all understand being from different countries, in no way am I planning of keeping Koi. I was watching a YouTube documentary about these people from the UK who traveled to Japan to look at koi farms, some of these fish cost thousands of dollars.
    Are you kidding me?
    A few goldfish some guppies, and mollies, maybe a couple of catfish that I will never see again because they are bottom feeders, but do clean a lot of the stuff that settles in the bottom, and that's it. With so many people around me in need, I would not be able to sleep at night after spending that kind of money on stupid fish.
    - By the way, I love the cement work at your property, I wish I could get someone that does work like that around here.
    Perhaps I will post about it at the Khon Kaen FB group page and get a recommendation. Yours looks great. Your water planters look great also.
    Well done all around!!

  5. #55
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    There is a reason I designed the cement pond the way I did
    "the cement pond" ? after re-reading it I realized I must I sound like Jed Clampett from the Beverly Hillbillies LOL

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    If I really had expensive koi , running the pump 24/7 would be required to circulate the water , but with goldfish and guppies ,that's not a problem.
    I am afraid that if something went wrong while I was asleep or away , it would drain the pond out. I guess a water level switch should be my next in my to do list..
    In my boat bilge I had a float switch to pump the water out , I guess I can run the pump through something like that. I will think about it,
    Any ideas are always appreciated.

    The green algae problem in part comes from switching off the pump at night I think.
    Without continuous circulation, you'll never establish a healthy colony of bacteria, they'll die from lack of oxygen, even after a few hours.

    I see that you're using a canister filter below the waterfall?
    Think it's too small, but with the added bio-balls you're getting in the right direction.
    My suggestion would be to put a layer of filter-floss on top. That layer would catch solids and the 'clean water' gets to the bioballs.
    Rinse the filter-floss on a regular basis. It's cheap stuff, but removing solids massively increases your filtering efficiency / reduces the load you put on a filter.

    Cheers,
    Luc
    Last edited by Schuimpge; 23-06-2021 at 02:15 PM. Reason: added explanation

  7. #57
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    Hey BB,
    We seem to have the same taste in house paint color schemes. .


    Nice place you have there to relax. I love having the house lifted. The underneath always stays very cool and usually gets a good breeze blowing through. Our mutts love it too. They usually lay belly flat on the cool tiles. Occasionally we get a fast moving dove that thinks its a fly through until they commit suicide into a window.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slick View Post
    If the pond is in direct sunlight it'll bloom REALLY badly, at least mind did. Nothing I did could stop it until I built a little roof over it.

    Not talking about algae on the walls of the pond & stuff, but full-on bright green water. Once that starts, its a biiiiiiiiiitch to stop.
    I have half covering. There is only few days in a year when I experienced some green clouds. And never using a chemical against algae (unlike am using in swimming pool).

    Even sometimes I throw in the pool a green veil fished out from the filter cascade that they have something to play with.

    Actually, the kois as some kind of carps does not need a poor H2O water. That's only good for some kind of aesthetic show.

    How I have it this morning, kois in over 10 years, hearing, seeing me, awaiting their food:
    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_1943-jpg

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    The green algae problem in part comes from switching off the pump at night I think.
    Without continuous circulation, you'll never establish a healthy colony of bacteria, they'll die from lack of oxygen, even after a few hours.
    Switching off evenings, if not forgotten. And switching on morning, many times forgotten. And the pumps is intermittent only, depends on how much I open the flow valve.

    Unlike my system of slow flowing to the filter cascade, from there the pump is sucking when the last water reaches a higher level, another more efficient style is a sucking directly from the bottom of the fish pond, filling the filter cascade.

    Mostly running permanently. Then some kind of filter cleaning is timely needed. Friends of mine have it, made by a special company for 10 times more then our poor system, the company coming also for the regular cleaning. However, it has not avoided few casualties.

  10. #60
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    Algae problems..: Yes, sunshine is an important factor, but it's not the root of the problem.
    Algae need food!
    There's normally 4 sources of food for algae:
    - Left-over fish food
    - Fish waste
    - Rotting plant-matter and or clay that the plants sit in.
    - Tap water and/or ground water (phosphates and other chemicals)

    If you'd eliminate these sources, then algae become much easier to manage. How?
    - Never overfeed, only feed enough for fish to eat within 5 minutes. Remove food they did not finish.
    - Filtration setup
    - Remove leaves, dead plant matter
    - Use rain-water wherever possible.


    Got a small pond at home as well, there's 8 Koi in there. Bought as small 10cm 'babies', they're nice sized healthy fish now.

    To avoid any malfunction-problems with the filter, I took 3 storage crates that are typically used in warehouses/factories.
    The top 2 of them I drilled dozens of holes in the bottom, the lowest one received 2 outlets.
    I used a sieve-mesh on top to filter out most gunk.
    Under that mesh is filter floss.
    Then the other crates have bio-balls and ceramic cylinders for bacteria.

    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_2556-jpeg
    Water pumps directly from the bottom of the pond into the top crate.

    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_2559-jpeg
    The many holes in the bottom provide excellent aeration.

    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_2544-jpeg
    Drilling the holes is a bit of work, but the pattern from the plastic re-inforcement strips makes it easy to get it nicely spaced.

    You could also put this filter in the water on a couple of stones, with 1 or more crates submerged and 1 or more above the water as a Wet/Dry setup. Only thing you do is cleaning out the solids.
    Need more filtration? Just add another crate on top...
    It's perfectly modular, easy to take apart, clean, expand etc.

    Cheers,
    Luc

    Forgot to add: reason I drilled two outlets on the front is that I didn't want to loose any volume in the pond and I had the platform over it already. You could of course put it on some bricks or on a couple of wooden beams and drill holes in the bottom of the lowest crate as well. Depends on where and how you want to place the filter.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_2816-jpeg   Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_2558-jpeg  
    Last edited by Schuimpge; 23-06-2021 at 01:55 PM.

  11. #61
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    You sure have beautiful koi there Klondyke. Next couple years hopefully getting my new house build started and that will get plenty of water areas. Pond, swimming..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    My suggestion would be to put a layer of filter-floss on top. That layer would catch solids and the 'clean water' gets to the bioballs.
    Done, will do the same on the "dry" part where the water is sprayed on the bio-balls.
    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-filter-flosss-jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    We seem to have the same taste in house paint color schemes.
    Brilliant minds think alike LOL.
    I like earth tones, and I wanted a traditional look so I don't stand out like a sore thumb in the village.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    I have half covering. There is only few days in a year when I experienced some green clouds. And never using a chemical against algae
    I like your plant decorations, I started something similar. At the garden place I saw some lava rock that was hollowed out and could be used as a planter. Tomorrow I will go get some and see if I can make it look like some of the plants are growing naturally in the rocks. I also got some moss that the water is running trough , it could aid in the filtration a bit. Lets see if it survives.
    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-moss-jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    You could also put this filter in the water on a couple of stones, with 1 or more crates submerged and 1 or more above the water as a Wet/Dry setup.
    I like the innovative simplicity of your wet and dry system, I think I will impairment some of your components.
    The first stage I have is a wet system, I think I will stack a dry system with a drip tray on top of it , much like yours.
    Thank you for that detailed reply.

  13. #63
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    As the carps are liking muddy waters, also the kois can survive in algaesh waters. And they will dispose of the algae.

    You can see often at larger restaurants where they keep such pond for the show with not very deep water - and not much care either.

    Also at PTT gasoline pumps some Amazon coffee kiosks have built shallow channels with kois.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Also at PTT gasoline pumps some Amazon coffee kiosks have built shallow channels with kois.
    I have seen many of these ponds at various Amazon coffee shops in my travels. I have asked on and off about how they are maintained, most have said "They do nothing, Just feed the fish". I would also believe somewhere there is a ball park calculation on how many fish per liter of water so it does not become loaded with fish waste. Originally when I thought about Koi fish, I considered 2 or so small ones. But I am liking the Goldfish and skeeter eating guppy idea much better. I clearly do not want to be a slave to the pond.

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    [QUOTE=JPPR2;4275700]I have seen many of these ponds at various Amazon coffee shops in my travels. I have asked on and off about how they are maintained, most have said "They do nothing, Just feed the fish". I would also believe somewhere there is a ball park calculation on how many fish per liter of water so it does not become loaded with fish waste. Originally when I thought about Koi fish, I considered 2 or so small ones. But I am liking the Goldfish and skeeter eating guppy idea much better. I clearly do not want to be a slave to the pond.[/QUOTE

    There's indeed ballpark figures of space and volume of water p/fish. However, these are highly dependent on other factors such as sun and filtration.
    As Klondyke said, Koi are ok with muddy water, green 'algae-water' etc. The only thing that's important for them, and for any type of fish that you keep, is the ammonia level in the water, which of course gets lower or zero if there is enough filtration.
    Bacteria not only sit in your filter. They're inside the whole water-column. So a waterfall or feature built with Lava stone is one big filter because of all the surface it provides for bacteria to grow on.
    That's also what most of these ponds at PTT have. Some fountain or waterfall for circulation and filtration.

    Cheers,
    Luc

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    "I like the innovative simplicity of your wet and dry system, I think I will impairment some of your components.
    The first stage I have is a wet system, I think I will stack a dry system with a drip tray on top of it , much like yours.
    Thank you for that detailed reply."

    Glad I could help.. any questions or more pictures or anything, just let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai View Post
    Done, will do the same on the "dry" part where the water is sprayed on the bio-balls.
    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-filter-flosss-jpg
    Nice to see it straight away accumulating algae. Hope it helps getting the water more clear..

    Suggest to get one of these in the local 20 Baht shop (or from the collection at home, we're having tons of them around the house..sigh)..

    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-32-1194green-jpg

    Put the floss in there, and it's nicely contained and won't start sinking when more gunk accumulates.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    a waterfall or feature built with Lava stone is one big filter because of all the surface it provides for bacteria to grow on.
    I had read or heard somewhere that algae blooms lowers the water oxygen level and kills the fish, Which was also a concern of mine. That's one of the reasons I started the water fountain feature. I also like the look, and the sounds of running water. Though it does make me run to the bathroom every five minutes LOL. I am hopping that the waterfall also helps aid in the aeration and as you said the water running down the rocks once I develop a healthy bacteria colony should also act as a aerobic (Dry) filter. I am already beginning to see some improvement in the water quality.
    I cant begging to tell you all how much I appreciate all your help.

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    BB, great to hear your getting fast results.. And glad I can help.. Indeed, algae can drop the oxygen levels very fast if it gets beyond a certain point. Algae are ok in pond sure.. but if they get out of control, it normally is a good indicator that there's something wrong with the pond/tank/water..

    I've kept fish since I came to Asia, when a friend of mine dropped a large fish tank at my apartment.
    Nowadays I'm mostly interested in chasing the perfect filter and water without spending ridiculous money on hi-tech stuff that doesn't work anyway.
    That's where the modular crate setup came from.. Just simple, easy and low cost.

    Here's the 2nd pond at my house. There's a turtle in there and a load of small guppies and platies (those red small fish, black tail you see in every fish shop). The only thing I do is washing/cleaning the filter-cloth.
    Water is crystal clear and healthy fish. Only one crate filled with lava-rock, bio-balls and filter floss on top.
    Pump is in the lower pond, pipe comes up at the higher end and water falls into the filter. Waterfall down to the lower pond again.

    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_3888-jpeg

    And couldn't resist: My baby at my factory, just after he got into his new home:

    Building a small koi pond waterfall.-img_1366-jpeg

    She's about 12 years old now 2m long, a good 100-120kg.
    Last edited by Schuimpge; 25-06-2021 at 02:15 PM.

  20. #70
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    ^Yes, something like that.
    And the most important - it was here already mentioned - not to feed them too much.

    Firstly, reducing their shit, secondly, reducing the algea growing on that unused food .

    I fill a lid (not really fully) of a coffee can where I keep the fish food, throwing them once a day, sometimes forget. They have to fight for that.
    If not fighting then stop for a day or two.

    Actually the fish can survive a months without feeding. The more they starve the more they will feed on algae.

  21. #71
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    Well said Klondyke. I wouldn't try a month without food in my small ponds, there's no algae for them anyway...lol.. but indeed, less is better when it comes to feeding the fish.

    My Baby at work is an example. Cleaning lady is way too attached and hand-feeds him..
    Meanwhile, the tilapia are breeding like rabbits...lol..
    There's also 2 Red Tail Catfish, 2 Riverfly Turtles (or pig-nose turtles), some big sucker fish and 1 peacock bass in there.

  22. #72
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    She's about 12 years old now 2m long, a good 100-120kg.

    wow.

    deserves a full sized photo


  23. #73
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    Lol..thanks for the upsize.. She's been with us for 10 years now. Lovely fish.. dangerous if not handled properly, but waiting with open mouth if you dangle a prawn.
    Came swimming into our factory during the floods of 2011 and found a drain when the water receded. She was about 90cm at the time and survived because there was dozens of other fish in there.
    We found her when we removed the sandbags in that drain. Built a temporary pond and started digging a bigger one.
    The two Thai guys moved her to the new pond, crew of 4. Amazing job they did. Catching, moving into a Pickup Truck and the smaller guy jumping in there to check if she was ok.. (Just to clarify, that's 100kg of almost pure muscle..she's strong enough to break your rib-cage in countless pieces just by splashing around..)..
    All went well, and she's absolutely enjoying her new (and bigger) home for over a year now.
    She likely escaped some game fishing farm or anything during the floods.. For the better I'm sure.
    The other fish in there where all given to me because they got too big for their owners.. Only the peacock bass is 'small'. The others are all above 30kg.

  24. #74
    Thailand Expat TheRealKW's Avatar
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    Really beautiful fish! Lucky man, I bet you take good care of her.

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    Just like to add a bit more detail on the 'waste-cycle'.
    Fish produce waste after eating food. This waste contains ammonia, something that can easily kill fish if the concentration is too high.
    A biological filter basically consists of a medium that provides as much surface area as possible without blocking the water flow.
    On that surface, the first type of bacteria starts to develop, and what it does is 'eating' the ammonia and converting it into nitrite.
    This nitrite is also harmful to fish, so a 2nd type of bacteria starts to develop. That 2nd bacteria converts the nitrite into nitrate..

    Nitrate is much more 'fish-friendly', but you can see that if there's nothing to remove the nitrate, then it builds up and eventually the concentration will be too high for the fish and you'll still end up with sick or dead fish.

    How to remove the nitrate? One option is water-changes. Topping up won't help, because you don't remove the nitrates..
    But.., anyone with a bit of gardening knowledge knows that most if not all fertilizers contain nitrate.
    So plants grow on nitrate. In a pond or fishtank, that means we have to add plants to grow so they consume the nitrate and then the circle is complete.
    There's the option of water-plants...Or you could use the pond water to water your plants (potted or in the garden). Then top up the pond with rainwater, or (less preferable), tap-water..

    In the past, I used to spray my orchids and other potted plants with fish-tank water, never used any of those orchid fertilizers. They really like that, grow and bloom like crazy..With a pond its even easier. Just dip them in the pond for a couple of minutes.

    Or you could set up an aquaphonic grow-bed, let the water continuously flow through that and grow some vegetables.

    Cheers,
    Luc

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