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  1. #26
    Days Work Done! Norton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by See Will View Post
    If there is still interest I'll be glad to add some posts
    Please do. Will be appreciated by me and others. Thank you for your great thread.

  2. #27
    I'm not in jail...3-2-1. Jack meoff's Avatar
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    The mozies the stink, ROI and the space it has taken up in your home.
    What's the end result here!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    Will, in Thailand as anywhere you have to have a motivation to get up - do stuff - looks like you and your Lady have found it. What made me smile is your comment about your Lady's joy, i have to say that Thai women when they are happy and bolted into something are a real pleasure to be around, energy and enthusiasm - lost a lot of that in the west. Thanks for taking the trouble to post - i may ask you what set up i need for say 40 kgs of cray / year - or how much are yours
    sure I can help here:


    In Fish tanks you need to calculate 10 Crayfish per Square-meter (high density Farmers say 15 max per sqm, but they are most likely chew themselves down to 10 while molding) and a good number of hides (pipes) are 3 per crayfish.

    40 Kg target is 3.3 Kg per month @ an average of 75 grams (as a realistic size, not all will grow 120 grs or above) means you need to stock 44 Crayfish. = 4.4 sqm/month at 8 month grow rate 35.2 sqm bottom space = pure mathematically.


    But to be honest you grow them in 3 stages,

    -separate berried mothers (with eggs under the tail belly)
    -as soon the fry leaves the mother remove her and throw a to a block folded net or anything that creates hundreds of tiny spaces but keeps good aeration, in that they can hide (high cannibalism rate because they mold very often in the first stage of life!)
    -when they are fingerlings (2 Inches/5cm) move them to a bigger place or in a pond but take care you burned (dried out) the pond first (Predator fishes but also to create a healthy environment)
    - for fish tanks or concrete raceways: when they getting bigger (not fitting anymore in 3/4 inch pipe housings) you want to go for 10 per square meter..

    The are eating almost all..
    They love frozen peas, carrot rasps (give them a great flavor and color), grass cuttings, veggies or as special treat throw a bone from you BBQ in and off cause Crayfish food..
    Feeding time Sunset and early morning.
    enough food reduces cannibalism but careful with overfeeding as you introduce Ammonia with all stuff that decays.
    Arguing with an engineer is wrestling a pig in the mud, after 3 hrs you realize that he f**king enjoys it

  4. #29
    I'm in Jail

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    thanks and like your signature

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack meoff View Post
    The mozies the stink, ROI and the space it has taken up in your home.
    What's the end result here!
    Mozzies don't do well in aerated water and you need to have oxygen everywhere hence no breeding place for mossies. And if one tries the fish is happy when the pump moves them right into their mouth.
    A well maintained aquarium doesn't stink, does it? When it stinks your fish is dead so you need to keep it flowing like a small creek with trouts..

    The result is when the real farm gets built all errors are eliminated. By a huge investment of that size you can't just build it, you need to know what you build and what happens on every sqm of 9000 sqm you want to build in this case.
    I stated once, losing 10000 THB in a test doesn't hurt when it saves 1 Million damage in the real Project.

    I am working since 37 years in Projects and the proper planning is the path to success.

  6. #31
    I'm not in jail...3-2-1. Jack meoff's Avatar
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    Ok thanks,
    You will need some big walls and reliable maintenance/security when you go real.

  7. #32
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Any chance to visit your project one day?

    I'm very interested in hydraulic flow particularly creating turbulence.

    If you generate such mild turbulence will the Crayfish do better?

  8. #33
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    Anyone who is interested is off cause welcome for a visit (east Pattaya) when we can arrange it during my off times.
    The System looks on Pictures nicer than in reality but it does the job and explains the tasks to come in the commercial farm.

    Next step are:
    Black Soldier Flies turning into Fish food
    and to find out how much value has Duckweed really for fish food
    Waste management especially when it comes to low quality veggies, overproduction and market returns, how to ennoble and evaluate these waste products using Bio conversion without stink with help of Black Soldier Flies*, therefore its just perfect to live in a Moo Baan Village

    *I have seen s study where the larvae of BSF went through a full stocked 16" Pizza within 2 hrs and left not more than pure odorless Compost.


    @jackmeoff how to explain my dogs that the old widow next door shall not pinch all my fish?
    I allowed her only veggies and gave her a fish because she was married to an Englishman who died 3 years ago.
    Now she is piss poor and I have a heart for her and so do my dogs..
    Security is a factor I haven't been in too much now but where she turned a freebie into a continuous harvest for her kitchen, she is barely seen anymore at BigC.

  9. #34
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by See Will View Post
    Anyone who is interested is off cause welcome for a visit (east Pattaya) when we can arrange it during my off times.
    My gaff is in East Pattaya also just off Siam Country Club Rd not far from the railway crossing.

    I'd really appreciate it if you allowed me and my wife to come and have a look at your set up.

  10. #35
    I'm not in jail...3-2-1. Jack meoff's Avatar
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    Lt do you want more pipes running round your gaff than an onshore oil refinery?

  11. #36
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack meoff View Post
    Lt do you want more pipes running round your gaff than an onshore oil refinery?
    Our property is surrounded 50% by water anyway mate so a few more pipes shouldn't make a difference.

    I am also considering either re-tiling the pool, filling it in or using it for something else.

    It is 7 metres wide and about 22 metres long so this area may be a perfect place to set something up.

    Anyway I will go and check this out.

  12. #37
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    See Will
    Thanks for making the effort to post your story, I have enjoyed reading it.
    Just some questions at this point.
    How did you stop the babies from migrating through your system?
    Does the bell siphon's stop them getting out of the tanks?
    You talk about fish food, are you planning on trying to make your own?
    Do you think you can make it cheaper than buying commercial feed?
    Have you done any studies on the FCR (Food Conversion Ratio) of the Red Claw's?
    Where did you buy your electronic water tester?
    If you progress to building your farm does that mean you will need to buy some land so you have more room to build?
    If you do would you also build some living quarters on the land so you are always present to hopefully stop thieves?

    Thanks

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai View Post
    See Will
    Thanks for making the effort to post your story, I have enjoyed reading it.
    Just some questions at this point.
    How did you stop the babies from migrating through your system? I did order a set (stainless) 50 micron filter buckets.

    Does the bell siphon's stop them getting out of the tanks? They can't survive in the ebb flood grow beds where the bell siphons work, it has no space and is full of gravel.

    You talk about fish food, are you planning on trying to make your own? For my commercial farm yes. I will have a lot of bio waste like overproduction, returns from the market, low quality veggies etc. Using black soldier flies will be a lot of protein, then I plan to process the most of the fish (5000Kg/month) into fillets hence lots of scraps will be produced too and mixed with veggies through a pellet extruder.. Floating Pellet Extruder ain't that expensive and pay back in a predictable time. That saves me on the other hand lots of waste which it is actually no waste and I reckon there will be still some food left for sale too. Not sold products beside frozen fish and Crayfish will in this way appreciated. Its a flexibility, salad will rot in 2 days, you don't buy my salad i make dry food out of it and sell it to you when needed. Dry food has a long shelf life.. Its just the recipe a bit more demanding by what kind of fish is the eater. One wants 40% crude Protein the other 60%. An Indonesian farmer helped me here big time and gave me his recipes.

    Do you think you can make it cheaper than buying commercial feed? definitely it is cheaper by a use of 100Kg/day plus an expected overproduction for sale, and all the Black Soldier Fly Larvae bio-convert is best compost that also sales well.

    Have you done any studies on the FCR (Food Conversion Ratio) of the Red Claw's? The feeding ratio per day is 7% of body mass till juvenile stage then 2% in the grow out phase, they grow in 8 month about 75grs average some reach 110 grs. RCC are sold in increment steps from 50grs up. 50 grs for deco on buffets 80grs + white table cloth restaurants.

    Where did you buy your electronic water tester? Germany, I try to get a new one when I am done here on this job if time allows. Atm we use the classic lacmus strips again, my wife uses either her sensible farmer's nose and avoids any complicated tests. Hard to get her that way..

    If you progress to building your farm does that mean you will need to buy some land so you have more room to build? My companion (Dutch) and I agreed Isaan coz land is cheap there but my wife needs to be still persuaded.

    If you do would you also build some living quarters on the land so you are always present to hopefully stop thieves? Yes, you can't leave the place unattended as we also want to breed another fish that grows 10 Kg a year and just storms the European market but that one is kept secret sorry, I can tell that one fingerling costs 2500 baht and needs a Cites certificate..


    Thanks
    ! No problem, you re welcome.
    Last edited by See Will; 10-08-2019 at 10:26 AM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loy Toy View Post
    Our property is surrounded 50% by water anyway mate so a few more pipes shouldn't make a difference.

    I am also considering either re-tiling the pool, filling it in or using it for something else.

    It is 7 metres wide and about 22 metres long so this area may be a perfect place to set something up.

    Anyway I will go and check this out.
    Just a few notes to consider. I am 5 years going from battle to battle with the nature just to understand her.
    Make sure you have no Plaa Chon or Plaa Shado in your pond lurking. The Red Claws are naive and these fishes don't mind going such a delicate snack.. Almost any Animal goes for it, I had even to train my dogs killing rats.
    And as you live near Lake Maprachan they will feel it and sure going for a walk. You need to fence your pond off. They are excellent climbers and vagabonds..
    Connecting Aquaponics to a pond isn't impossible but sure a huge challenge. AP is a balance of high density plants and fish.. I would not try it using a pond.
    Every water poodle or lake is Aquaponics but in a natural way, our human aquaponics is just way more dense with the same result. No chemicals, no fertilizer and no antibiotics. The stuff kills either the fish or the plant. You need to get clean water back at the end of the cycle (literally seen)

    But if you are sure they can't escape my wife is sure willing to "sell" some on tit for tat base. You put some in your pond and keep contact how they doing and developing. RCC in Pond culture is pretty new in Thailand and the few companies who do it will give little info or false tips to avoid competition.

  15. #40
    On a walkabout Loy Toy's Avatar
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    ^ Thanks for your response Will.

    We actually have a large pool that I have drained and in the process of removing the tiles.

    If I was to take this project on I would place the piping within the pool and use the existing filtration unit if necessary.

    The pool footprint is around 150 square metres so I assume that would be enough area to set up a decent operation.

    The pool is also partly covered so if some shade is needed then I have it.

    The water I was referring to is a klong which passes through our property and I live 15 minutes drive from Maprachan Lake.

    I would also leave the pool tiles on the walls to restrict the creatures from escaping.

    I could also put a mesh over the pool to stop any unwanted predators from indulging.

    When you are free I would love to see your operation.

  16. #41
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    Ok I have a last spot in my backyard that was not mentioned after modification.

    The Filter-units have been changed, bigger and more flow. a 42000 ltr/hr pump is the beast of the whole and a 2nd 18000ltr/hr feeds the fishes since we had to add more smack due to the narrow openings in the Venturi nozzles.
    The rule of thumb is that the water in the fish tanks has to be changed once per hour that's why we have a electric bill of 8000 Baht/month..
    Ok, ashes on my head: the doggies have a small room with Airco, which ain't make it cheaper.
    Actually they were picked as straying puppies and they can be such a pleasure.. can ...but mostly the are the best horses in the stable, making the most sh*t... but we love them to dead.

    Ok the filters: by the way the Blower is changed to Membrane Air Pumps as it was heating the air too much hence the water went to critical temperature levels and the 3 x 200 ltr buckets had to be changed to 4 x 300 ltr water tanks. We couldn't refit the cut of top to lids so I bought 4 Tables in the 20 baht shop and cutted the legs off. Did the job and we have now a plate where we can put our beer on..
    Aquaponics revival-20190330_182257-jpg

    An the filter buckets were designed for 50 Micron mesh which was for whatever reason taken out as i was on my last job and replaced with plastic spun filter. My wife said and there is not way to argue. Not even the fact that 4 Filter buckets have cost me 32000 baht at the stainless workshop for special Farang bargain price. I still hate her for that but I don't tell her LOL. A Thai woman is always right and if she is not right she is just hungry..
    Aquaponics revival-20190330_182231-jpg

    but how can you be angry when she ist just a litte 57 Kg .....Fury

    regarding her size and the weight of the filters i had to build an extra crane to lift them out of the filter tank to avoid she twists her back... .
    Aquaponics revival-20190330_182616-jpg

    Just as a final for now, my wife is a good person and treats me very well......
    .....did I tell you that the dogs own beside the airco room a motorbike with side car and that they have been straying dog puppies picked at Lake Maprachan? Also that my wife cannot drive and the dogs love to walk 10 km away and when my wife gets up to check her Aquaponics I have to get up and run the dogs? What is the most common sentence used by farangs?
    Mine is different...

    Aquaponics revival-20190401_072108-jpg
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  17. #42
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    Last to mention is that off cause I am the designer and engineer of our plan but with my 56 years the bones are not that good as with 15.
    I do all kind of work but the hardest part are done by my Family and closest friends who i have to honor here in final words.
    And with all my heart the honor goes:
    to Brother Ake a good Thai friend who uses to be a Tattoo Artist but also a jack of all trades close to me as a real brother.
    Brother Pi Jak a Motorbike Taxi Driver and and organizer who gets hands on everything needed, also as close to me as a brother.
    my Nephews Minh and his Brother Dia who want to escape out of the harsh rice farmer life in Isaan and going with highest motivation into the matter just do me so proud.
    And behind every good sailor stands a strong woman in this case my wife See who is my one and all.

    Without their help we never would have been that far as we are now.
    I cannot say the countless hours we spent together, the sweat we spilled and we were more than once gutted to the bone.
    They never gave up and it is always a fun when we are going for the next challenge, even we have to repeat steps sometimes all over again.
    I just have the feeling I need to mention them young Lads as they really deserve it to be part of this story also in future..

    The story will continue...
    Last edited by See Will; 10-08-2019 at 10:59 AM.

  18. #43
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    Even I am offshore my wife and our Lads have completed the next task as asked for.
    With the upcoming end of the rain season (bit early I know) the winter 2019 with hopefully lots sunshine and and summer 2020 with the April heat has the subject.
    Efficiency of spray cooling and off cause the Influence of artificial light in the nighttime.

    The spray cooling and grow lights have been installed in our test system and we awaiting with excitement the results to come.
    Disco Salad and Tomatoes.
    By the way, the rooting of tomato suckers in our ebb flood grow beds has been successfully as well lets see how they yield here in Thailand.
    Aquaponics revival-img-20190814-wa0003-jpg

    Aquaponics revival-img-20190814-wa0000-jpg

    bit surprised I am about the spread of the lights. Lazada told about 1 sqm but it looks for me they made us shooting with a solid 8.8 artillery on Sparrows.
    But for the future greenhouse planned its sure a benefit to cover more sqm with less lights.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Aquaponics revival-img-20190814-wa0003-jpg   Aquaponics revival-img-20190814-wa0000-jpg  
    Last edited by See Will; 15-08-2019 at 03:06 AM.

  19. #44
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    Brother Ake and Nephew Dia getting never tired.

    Oxygen in Tropical areas is only too much when the Fish flies out of the water because its quick dissolved again in warm water.

    Almost every day they are using spare time to find the ultimate oxygen supply for our farm later.
    Having such reliable partner for a business is already the half way to success.
    Aquaponics revival-img-20190815-wa0004-jpg

    Well and my wife took a photo of the last parcel received.
    The New Oxygen tester but she promised me not to get any close to water with this new piece of equipment just to make sure it not drowns while testing.
    I think the only way is to tie a cord to it and hang it around her neck...
    ...and ask her to take the drinking water bottle from the table
    Aquaponics revival-img-20190810-wa0001-jpg
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  20. #45
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    SW forget any naysayers - i love your learn by experiment. Keep the story coming love it. Which country r u frm?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    SW forget any naysayers - i love your learn by experiment. Keep the story coming love it. Which country r u frm?
    It might be an expensive Hobby but somehow I love it and it brought the last 5 years our family more than ever together.
    The Nephews were shy and didn't know better that their uncle is a Farang and there was always this looking up to me, but now we are talking to each others in the same way.

    Just for the nay Sayers to clarify: My pension is safe and when the farm can feed the family as before the hard graft in the rice fields its a winner..

    Beside this it gives me another challenge instead of going into retirement for the stone table.

    But that I told them to come to Pattaya and learn with us made waves through our entire Family from Mahasarakham till Phitsanulok.

    I am by the way German..

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by See Will View Post
    It might be an expensive Hobby but somehow I love it and it brought the last 5 years our family more than ever together.
    I am by the way German..
    SW its a great story and obviously a big investment - no idea if you've had a return but from what you say part of the return is bringing the family together - Thais are great when motivated.

    I'm a Brit and we have a load of Germans around Pak Chong / Khao Yai where i, sorry my Mrs has a place - always got on great - learnt to dive with a German school - added benefit was they partied hard - dive at 9am go to bed at 4am with brekkie in the bordello first

  23. #48
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    My wife just sent me a new picture about the installed mist cooling. Seems to reduce the heat a lot so we can try head lettuce again which is not easy to grow here in Thailand as it is due to the heat fast bolting. But no risk no fun.
    Many Veggies failed already but some high class veggies were a massive success. Mostly those we never would have expected and other Farms would most likely not even try at all.
    One is for example savoy cabbage. It didn't do well in our Aquaponics but with a little trick they grew to basketball size at the house of my mate.
    Certainly not all trials are made at our place but we know a teacher who is always open for tests when it comes to Farang Veggies..

    The mist cooling below doesn't make you soaking wet but will also work on a terrace and goes well along with beers ;-)

    From my point the nozzles are a bit close together and might damage the tomato leaves but we will see when I come home..
    Aquaponics revival-img-20190817-wa0004-jpg
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  24. #49
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    @see will - thanks for the pics and stories, very interesting. It's something that I may try with my partner later on. I live near a university where they sell aquaponics starter kits, and I've visited a huge aquaponics farm in Tagaytay some years before. That farm supplies lettuce & other veggies to fast food chains like Jollibee (the local version of McDonald's in PI). If you're a farmer and supplying to Jollibee, it's big $$$ here.

    Pls continue with the pics & stories, danke schoen!

  25. #50
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    Just thought I'd share this one. Works on a large scale.


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