Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by jamescollister

around $100 US a tree.

3,000 Baht a tree?
There have to be somewhere a mistake in your calculation/estimation:

I do not think that from a rubberwood log could be made more than 2 cft of sawn lumber.

And imagine that the boards 1 - 1.2 m long of width 2", 3", 4" (you hardly get 5"), sawn on thickness 3/4", 1", 1,5", dried and treated by harmless insecticide are sold around 400 Baht/cft.

we sold some trees afew years back, 12 ish years old around 30 baht a tree, 20/30 rai. same guys that buy the euca, same price paid to many people in are area. i think it went for paper like most of the euca. then you got the cost to dig the roots out and then get rid of them, about 3500,4000 baht a rai to clear it with a 20 ton macro....

Prices are on Alibaba, hard to make sense of any grading system, saw dust up to dressed timber.

Eg RUBBER WOOD LOG FROM FRESH FOREST IN VIETNAM FOR EXPORT



FOB Reference Price:Get Latest Price

$100.00 - $500.00 / Cubic Meters | 1000 Cubic Meter/Cubic Meters (Min. Order)


Don't know why the printing got small and changed color.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

$100.00 - $500.00 / Cubic Meters | 1000 Cubic Meter/Cubic Meters (Min. Order)

Believe or not the prices in Alibaba:
$100 - $500/cubic meter = 35.3 cft = ca. 17 logs - Min. order 1,000 cbm = ca. 100 trucks - logs from ? hectars?

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Believe or not the prices in Alibaba:
$100 - $500/cubic meter = 35.3 cft = ca. 17 logs - Min. order 1,000 cbm = ca. 100 trucks - logs from ? hectars?

I'm missing something here, cheapest rubber wood is for pulp, to make paper, as said trees are about 1,000 kilos, take away the unusable stuff. Pulp logs go for $100 US a metric ton, or there about.

So 2 trees per ton, 20 trees for 10 tons, my pick up carries 1 ton, where you get 100 trucks to move 10 tons is beyond me.

The prices posted in Alibaba are for logs, not board feet etc.

Price shown on Alibaba web is not the price you get (or you pay)...
Do they pay for rough logs (for pulp) more than for sawn timber for furniture?
Perhaps better to ask in KK at the huge paper/pulp factory how much they pay. They need daily hundreds of trucks of rubberwood, bamboo, eukalyptus, etc...

Yep, can't figure it either.
Current prices are about what eucalyptus makes per tonne - ie - pitiful.
I remember when rubber was just starting to get big in the NE 15 years ago, i heard figures of 30-35k per rai for lumber....

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Yep, can't figure it either.
Current prices are about what eucalyptus makes per tonne - ie - pitiful.
I remember when rubber was just starting to get big in the NE 15 years ago, i heard figures of 30-35k per rai for lumber....

Just read through the forestry act, or the pertinent parts, logging concessions, or as it says monopoly's are issued by the minister.

These licenses are passed down through inheritance, so Joe Smith's logging company either has the concession, or the monopoly on that area, he sets the price per rai.

From what I read, you can not phone up another logging company, ergo no competition on price, whoever holds the logging rights sets the price.

The law seems to be about the old days of forest logging, not been updated for plantation logging.

Just when you think it can't get worse, it does, rubber prices going through the floor, why.
Biggest rubber trading company in China has gone broke, seems to have been missed by the so called experts giving investment advise.

Yeah, there are panic prices being quoted everywhere.
It has gone mad.
Fingers crossed it calms down a bit before our next sale in 8 days time...

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Yeah, there are panic prices being quoted everywhere.
It has gone mad.
Fingers crossed it calms down a bit before our next sale in 8 days time...

Think this will not be over for awhile, the knock on effect will go on for months.

Posted over a year ago about how the Chinese rubber buyers were borrowing from the banks using warehouses of rubber for collateral, but the warehouses were empty.

Chinese tire companies have paid those people for rubber that they will never see, Asean rubber house have sold god knows how much rubber on letters of credit etc, they will probable not get paid and list of losers will go down the line to the guy who makes rubber tap washers.

Will take time to sort out and as this is a Chinese state owned company, who will take up their position, probably the biggest buyer in the world, another state owned company.
Got to think, will rubber sellers be happy to give credit to the same state company, with a new name.

As I said China has been manipulating the market for years, so long term this collapse may get thing back to normal supply and demand system, but it's not going to happen over night.

Sold 800 kg of cup today, gate price is 13 baht [we got 14, size does count] can live, but not good.
Still raining here, raining now, rains most days, but only for an hour or 2, so tapping is on going.

No news about what's happening with China, my guess the Chinese government has stepped in to sort it out and it's a wait and see game.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Sold 800 kg of cup today, gate price is 13 baht [we got 14, size does count] can live, but not good.

11,200 baht against what cost, James?

Originally Posted by Norton

11,200 baht against what cost, James?

Costs would need to be worked out over a year, over to thaiguzzi, he keeps records.

Saying that, this time of year, some acid and paint on anti fungal powered, not much, biggest cost is tappers, low prices mean 50/50 split.

Today's sale is from 2 plantations, wife gets the money from the other 3, to run the house etc.

Originally Posted by Norton

11,200 baht against what cost, James?

]You just got me thinking back and how the rubber times have changed.
Years ago, when we didn't even have our own producing rubber trees, the factory was buying liquid latex [on you tube] we made $1 US dollar for every kilo processed.

We made really good ribbed smoked sheet, so good that a specialist buyer would come up from Phuket to buy, mostly for RSS grade one, aircraft tires and medical use rubber.

He would also buy lesser RSS rubber and we got one Baht for every kilo that came through the gates.

He would come every month, at the time we had a local radio commercial and advertised latex buying and special rubber sheet buying days. On the rubber buying day we make about $2,000 US from walk in sellers.

Only lasted for about 3 months, bunch of bankers in the USA, had sold a lot of hedge funds on mortgages, sub prime crap, sent things down the toilet, welcome GFC.

Things in the rubber market have never recovered, nor in most commodities markets, bright side, gods and fate have decided I will never be rich.

Poor and a family man, rich and divorced. would have been the result.

The year BEFORE we started tapping is when the prices hit their all time high records.
People i know in the Bung Khan area who had started tapping a couple of years before were telling me how ridiculous the money coming in was.
They actually did'nt what to do with it all.
All of a sudden people are pulling in half a mil per month.
120 Baht per kg for cup!
190 Baht per kg for top sheet!
Then the following year (when we opened our first trees) prices were still good, great even (70 Baht per kg for cup), but then it's been a steady decline down to our prices today.

Originally Posted by Norton

Bet it did. Farming of any sort has changed worldwide and generally to the detriment of small to middle producers.

As you would be well aware, reason I asked about cost was just basic biz question. Profit. Wife and I had 50 rai of rice years ago. Have sold off all but 15rai. Reason, simply was a damn lot of work for little return. Hard decision because it was what we did. Finally, said enough already and sold. Best decision ever.

Rubber farm costs are a little diesel, petrol, once a year fertilizer, and weekly formic acid.
10 months per annum production.
Wages are a 60/40 split on gross takings, or when times are bad 55/45 or even 50/50.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Rubber farm costs are a little diesel, petrol, once a year fertilizer, and weekly formic acid.
10 months per annum production.
Wages are a 60/40 split on gross takings, or when times are bad 55/45 or even 50/50.

Thanks for responses.

Originally Posted by Norton

Bet it did. Farming of any sort has changed worldwide and generally to the detriment of small to middle producers.

As you would be well aware, reason I asked about cost was just basic biz question. Profit. Wife and I had 50 rai of rice years ago. Have sold off all but 15rai. Reason, simply was a damn lot of work for little return. Hard decision because it was what we did. Finally, said enough already and sold. Best decision ever.

Like most everything, existence has been co-opt by corporate/govt interests.

They will learn, in a big way, that small production is the base essence of economic stability, less familial.

Sold cup at auction yesterday, great output again, but a shitty price.
Lowest ever up here @ 17.75 Baht per kg.

I just sold 400 kilo's today, gate price 13 Baht, would have waited to get enough to get the 14 Baht for bulk, but it's rice harvest time, those tappers are off to harvest for a few days.

In these bad /low prices can't blame them for wanting to get their rice in, making certain they have food [rice] for the next year.

Rice is life, a mistake I make years ago, should have bought a few rai of rice land, secure your food source, you will never go hungry, sub prime, GFC, bank collapses, whole world can go into economic collapse, but have your own rice and the jungle and things won't change much, except the lack of beer.

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-th...7dR4g3DO1P7E_g

It just keeps coming, now rubber tree disease, well that has taken any idea of an oversupply off the table.

From a selfish short term point of view, if it stays out of Isaan, could be good news for prices....

Sold cup at auction yesterday, 18.30 Baht per kg.