Rubber trees 101

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ltnt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Stick with it, nurture your trees - got to a d3 system for a while and alter your tapping techniques like p1-4 and sharper cutting angle

---

How's that improve product price? Glut is glut OkrRkr...

---

Yep Itnt, the way I see it if you improve your tapping process all you are achieving is adding to the problem of over production :confused:

---

It doesn't improve product price, that is dictated by the Thai cartels and the world crude oil price.
What it does is allow you to sustain yourself by allowing income - the biggest advantage rubber has over other cash crops/trees/plantations is that it is daily income. Most plantation owners are small-holders and they rely on their daily cup lump or sheet sales, either to the co-operative or the factories.

Altering the tapping method ensures he health of the tree and increased yield when prices rebound.

My plantation in Chanthaburi has been converted to d4 with no stimulants, a six-inch panel tap at 220 degrees . . . tapping downward to 4ft from the ground and upward after 4 ft. I've also altered the fertiliser quantities to be used at crosspoints every four months and just to leave the trees alone during wintering.
Rainy times can be tapped using a skirt.

Some crops are plantable for rubber plantations, but cocoa isn't ideal for this. Cocoa is far better suited as an intercrop for palmoil and coconut plantations. The most opportune time for cocoa intercropping in rubber plantations is only in the first five or six years after seedling planting. After that it doesn't work well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ltnt

Plant some Cacao inbetween and in three years you've doubled your money.

---

then pass the beans through a civet cat and your profits will increase 50 fold :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ltnt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Stick with it, nurture your trees - got to a d3 system for a while and alter your tapping techniques like p1-4 and sharper cutting angle

---

How's that improve product price? Glut is glut OkrRkr...

---

Yep Itnt, the way I see it if you improve your tapping process all you are achieving is adding to the problem of over production :confused:

---

It doesn't improve product price, that is dictated by the Thai cartels and the world crude oil price.
What it does is allow you to sustain yourself by allowing income - the biggest advantage rubber has over other cash crops/trees/plantations is that it is daily income. Most plantation owners are small-holders and they rely on their daily cup lump or sheet sales, either to the co-operative or the factories.

Altering the tapping method ensures he health of the tree and increased yield when prices rebound.

My plantation in Chanthaburi has been converted to d4 with no stimulants, a six-inch panel tap at 220 degrees . . . tapping downward to 4ft from the ground and upward after 4 ft. I've also altered the fertiliser quantities to be used at crosspoints every four months and just to leave the trees alone during wintering.
Rainy times can be tapped using a skirt.

Some crops are plantable for rubber plantations, but cocoa isn't ideal for this. Cocoa is far better suited as an intercrop for palmoil and coconut plantations. The most opportune time for cocoa intercropping in rubber plantations is only in the first five or six years after seedling planting. After that it doesn't work well

---

Picture of the tree and tapping panel please.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baldrick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ltnt

Plant some Cacao inbetween and in three years you've doubled your money.

---

then pass the beans through a civet cat and your profits will increase 50 fold :)

---

I thought that was Coffee?

Combating Customer Erosion By Targeting ?New Movers? - Tire Review Magazine

commerce-department-declares-anti-dumping-duties/

Preliminary anti-dumping duties for certain passenger and light truck tires imported from China were set Jan. 21, 2015, by the Commerce Department’s International Trade Administration. The duty rates vary between 19.17% and 87.99% before adjustments.

Think that has more influence on China's rubber buying then supply's available,
Where the US goes on tariffs the EU will probably follow, you don't buy rubber to make tires if you can't sell them.
China will not be able to sell cheap tires with the added tariffs, their market share will shrink and be replaced by other makers over time, or they will stop subsidizing the industry.

IMF world rubber predictions 2015, tire grade rubber will settle mid year to around $2,500 US a M/T or about 80 Baht a kilo wholesale.

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Combating Customer Erosion By Targeting ?New Movers? - Tire Review Magazine

commerce-department-declares-anti-dumping-duties/

Preliminary anti-dumping duties for certain passenger and light truck tires imported from China were set Jan. 21, 2015, by the Commerce Department’s International Trade Administration. The duty rates vary between 19.17% and 87.99% before adjustments.

Think that has more influence on China's rubber buying then supply's available,
Where the US goes on tariffs the EU will probably follow, you don't buy rubber to make tires if you can't sell them.
China will not be able to sell cheap tires with the added tariffs, their market share will shrink and be replaced by other makers over time, or they will stop subsidizing the industry.

IMF world rubber predictions 2015, tire grade rubber will settle mid year to around $2,500 US a M/T or about 80 Baht a kilo wholesale.

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

---

Not sure if I get your drift here, but Do you think in your wildest dreams that the Thai Customs are Holier than thou as far as Imports from China in to Thailand goes?, the whole fucking Country is run both political and financial by Ethnic Thai Chinese :)

To bad about the lack of money trees in your area piwanoi...open a massage parlor, that'll do the job.:sorry1:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ltnt

To bad about the lack of money trees in your area piwanoi...open a massage parlor, that'll do the job.:sorry1:

---

Nice one , your concern touches the old heart strings , thanks but no thanks :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Combating Customer Erosion By Targeting ?New Movers? - Tire Review Magazine

commerce-department-declares-anti-dumping-duties/

Preliminary anti-dumping duties for certain passenger and light truck tires imported from China were set Jan. 21, 2015, by the Commerce Department’s International Trade Administration. The duty rates vary between 19.17% and 87.99% before adjustments.

Think that has more influence on China's rubber buying then supply's available,
Where the US goes on tariffs the EU will probably follow, you don't buy rubber to make tires if you can't sell them.
China will not be able to sell cheap tires with the added tariffs, their market share will shrink and be replaced by other makers over time, or they will stop subsidizing the industry.

IMF world rubber predictions 2015, tire grade rubber will settle mid year to around $2,500 US a M/T or about 80 Baht a kilo wholesale.

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

---

Not sure if I get your drift here, but Do you think in your wildest dreams that the Thai Customs are Holier than thou as far as Imports from China in to Thailand goes?, the whole fucking Country is run both political and financial by Ethnic Thai Chinese :)

---

What's it got to do with Thai imports, it's US tariffs, say a $100 tire gets an added 19 to 88 % import tax when sold in the US.
Not cheap anymore, so do you buy expensive Chinese tires or cheaper US local made tires.
China played a game, subsidizing it's local industry in order to put the competition out of business, now they have import tariffs into the US and may be later the EU.
If they can't compete on price they will make fewer tires, less rubber needed, car sales world wide are up, someone will make the tires, supply and demand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Combating Customer Erosion By Targeting ?New Movers? - Tire Review Magazine

commerce-department-declares-anti-dumping-duties/

Preliminary anti-dumping duties for certain passenger and light truck tires imported from China were set Jan. 21, 2015, by the Commerce Department’s International Trade Administration. The duty rates vary between 19.17% and 87.99% before adjustments.

Think that has more influence on China's rubber buying then supply's available,
Where the US goes on tariffs the EU will probably follow, you don't buy rubber to make tires if you can't sell them.
China will not be able to sell cheap tires with the added tariffs, their market share will shrink and be replaced by other makers over time, or they will stop subsidizing the industry.

IMF world rubber predictions 2015, tire grade rubber will settle mid year to around $2,500 US a M/T or about 80 Baht a kilo wholesale.

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

---

Not sure if I get your drift here, but Do you think in your wildest dreams that the Thai Customs are Holier than thou as far as Imports from China in to Thailand goes?, the whole fucking Country is run both political and financial by Ethnic Thai Chinese :)

---

What's it got to do with Thai imports, it's US tariffs, say a $100 tire gets an added 19 to 88 % import tax when sold in the US.
Not cheap anymore, so do you buy expensive Chinese tires or cheaper US local made tires.
China played a game, subsidizing it's local industry in order to put the competition out of business, now they have import tariffs into the US and may be later the EU.
If they can't compete on price they will make fewer tires, less rubber needed, car sales world wide are up, someone will make the tires, supply and demand.

---

As stated previously not sure if I got your drift , I do hope this suffices ,meanwhile what ever statistics you write including tapping your rubber at a "special night " at the full moon by the family's decree , "Sadly and I say sadly quite seriously" I highly doubt that the " good old days" will ever return , and no I am not gloating at others down fall anything but and that goes for Itnt , all we are doing is looking at the depressed rubber market ,its that simple :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

---

Ah, I do love this kind of answer from someone who has been too ignorant and arrogant to take any advice, given freely and stemming from first-hand experience.

Ok, exactly what was it that you found makes no sense at all? What makes you say I have never seen a rubber tree?
Examples would be good . . . alternatives would be equally as good and critique would be even better.

You dislike the d3/d4 tapping rhythm? Six inch cuts or the angle? Water pressure versus gravity on the latex tubes inside the tree? Come on, james . . .

I introduced the Thai Rubber Authority to several Malaysians clones . . . you know the leaders in the hevea brsiliensis market - worked with and for the Malaysian Rubber Board on plantations and methodology in Sri Lanka, Philippines and India and the Rubber Research institute here with Vietnamese co-operation.

I guess that pales into insignificance compared to your . . . life. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

---

james, here's a hint . . . I don't contribute in car discussions because I know nothing about mechanical things . . . building threads - no idea about building etc . . .

Aside form shooting the crap in the general forum I know a few things about IT after 20 years in the test and measurement business - not an engineer but the business side internationally . . . working with the Middle east etc...

Oh, and rubber. :)

You certainly get around.
So tell me, 6 inch cut, what's that, do you mean a 3 panel cut, 1/3 of the tree circumference, big tree bigger cut, small tree smaller cut.
What's 3d/4d tap, 3 days on 4 days off, never heard of it, 2 on one off, down to 1 on 2 off later in the season.
Tap down to 4 feet high, then upward, do you have giants for tappers, by the way upward tapping take a lot of skill and few tappers would bother with the extra work.

Why would you use stimulants, unless they are old dying trees.

So show some pics of you and the Thai agro people and your new clones, or your rubber plantation.
How many kilos per season do you get per rai and what tree clone do you use.

As said, doubt you have ever really seen a rubber tree, but give us more on your 2 meter plus tall tappers.

piwanoi, 2013 the US imported 43 million tires from China, with the tariffs they will not be as competitive.
Less US market share, no need to produce as many tires, that they may not be able to sell, doesn't mean less tires needed, just less Chinese tires.
If the Japanese, Koreans or others can sell cheaper they will take up bigger market share.

As to lucky days for tapping, or giving the plantation ghosts a chicken and Lao Kow, it's local customs.
It's not the family that calls that, but the local witch doctor, keeps my tappers happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

piwanoi, 2013 the US imported 43 million tires from China, with the tariffs they will not be as competitive.
Less US market share, no need to produce as many tires, that they may not be able to sell, doesn't mean less tires needed, just less Chinese tires.
If the Japanese, Koreans or others can sell cheaper they will take up bigger market share.

As to lucky days for tapping, or giving the plantation ghosts a chicken and Lao Kow, it's local customs.
It's not the family that calls that, but the local witch doctor, keeps my tappers happy.

---

Of course I stand corrected but I seem to recall in a few of your earlier submissions that you was finding it difficult to keep your tappers for one reason or another , obviousily we now know that the local witch doctor was not up to scratch :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

You certainly get around.

---

It's called being good at something - you should try it sometime

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

So tell me, 6 inch cut, what's that, do you mean a 3 panel cut, 1/3 of the tree circumference, big tree bigger cut, small tree smaller cut.

---

Here's your first test. What does six inches mean to you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

What's 3d/4d tap, 3 days on 4 days off, never heard of it, 2 on one off, down to 1 on 2 off later in the season.

---

Never heard of it . . . that figures.
Hint: Tap, two days off . . . tap. Or: Tap, three days off . . . tap.
Amazing stuff, eh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Tap down to 4 feet high, then upward, do you have giants for tappers, by the way upward tapping take a lot of skill and few tappers would bother with the extra work.

---

You think someone 4ft tall is a giant? How tall are the inbreds in your area then?

As for skill for upward tapping - try using a jebong . . . and if cutting into the tube isn't worth your while and you'd rather be a lazy shit and cut away from the tube then don't complain that your yield is low

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Why would you use stimulants, unless they are old dying trees.

---

Yet another instance where you show your ignorance. You're probably thinking of the liquid stimulants that you place directly onto the cut . . . and even then it has nothing to do with dying trees unless you want to slaughter cut
Ever heard of ethylene? Gaseous form?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

As said, doubt you have ever really seen a rubber tree, but give us more on your 2 meter plus tall tappers.

---

Oh dear . . . when the ignorant get called out they rebound by showing even greater ignorance.
You do know that 4ft doesn't equal 2 metres . . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

OR, doubt you have ever even seen a rubber tree as what you have written makes no sense at all.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

As said, doubt you have ever really seen a rubber tree, but give us more on your 2 meter plus tall tappers.

---

You're a sad case, james. from Brit cop to Aus prison guard to incarcerated thug and then hole up in Thailand, involving yourself in a business you know nothing of and are too ignorant and arrogant to take well-meaning advice on board, instead being utterly obtuse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

Picture of the tree and tapping panel please.

---

Pleasure:

Endresult of what smoked sheets should look like - these are in Kerala, in the hills near Ranny. Most of the plantations are owned by a small group of Syrian Christians, who are Indian. Interesting history.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/368.jpg

Same place, the young man's family, in the front, owns large tracts of plantations . . . and the son studies aeronautical engineering and wants nothing to do with agriculture. We set up our systems there with excellent results. Indian tappers are second only to Sri Lankan tappers, in terms of skill . . . but there are very few younger tappers.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/369.jpg

This is his father . . . and my favourite car!!!

[URL=http://s269.photobucket.com/user/amssydsing/media/Kerala/carsmm.jpg.html]https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/370.jpg[/UR

When in Trivandrum one rests at the Trivandrum Club, when invited. The former European Club is quite wonderful . . . G&Ts by the fire

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/371.jpg

I digress . . .

Let's hop over to the Philippines, Mindanao to be precise . . . and Cagayan de Oro to be more precise.

We were working with the Agriculture Ministry to assist in increasing yield for the small plantation owners to stop the wholesale leasing of plantations to MNC banana plantation owners.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/372.jpg

Ok, Chanthaburi. The plantation is not a large one and is used mainly for testing - though the workers keep the yield and when the trees are felled eventually we split the proceeds of the timber sale. That's the theory anyway.
Part of the plantation is rubber forest . . . trees immensely thick which can be double, triple, quadruple tapped . . . some will give you lots of latex, others next to nothing.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/373.jpg

Here you can see the tapping style - note the angle and width. Six inches. yes, james. Please check out what six inches is.
Note also the rainguards for the tapping panel as well as the cup - no need to lose out on income when it rains

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/374.jpg

Let's shift to Malaysia, Tanjung Malim in the state of Perak, to be precise . . . and a plantation that belonged to the state and needed slaughter tapping . . .

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/375.jpg

You'll notice that the cut is both upwards and downwards and another panel is on the other side to make full use of the latex tubes that encircle the tree diagonally.
Note that despite it being slaughter-tapped the cut is only six inches wide - again, note the angle, though

I have an old thread here when I was in Sri Lanka. I posted as Panama Hat in those days . . . but can't get the nic back.

Can't find it and the one about our sojourn to enhance government-owned rubber plantations in Cambodia is frugged:

https://teakdoor.com/cambodia-questio...-cambodia.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

As said, doubt you have ever really seen a rubber tree

---

:rolleyes: You're an idiot

Fascinating show-n-tell, Hatters.

Thanks.

:)

I am not sure if this has already been posted, but it is a pretty straight forward Cocoa manual albeit with an African perspective.

http://www.iita.org/c/document_libra...=DLFE-1654.pdf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Fascinating show-n-tell, Hatters.

Thanks.

:)

---

Pleasure. I hope it helps some of the posters here . . . well, the ones not too bitter and angry at their lot in life stuck in some loss-making plantation.

Still in India, this is the house I stayed, complete with servants galore . . . :) I didn't hate it too much . . .

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/376.jpg

So, in Sri Lanka and system installed . . . we replaced the aluminium pouches with plastic ones later - less condensation and therefore less leakage as the seal at the back consist of . . . latex.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/377.jpg

Here's what a jebung knife looks like - sharp at both ends of the blade to facilitate upward and downward tapping

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/378.jpg

Different plantation . . . Gentlemen from the Sri Lankan Rubber Board - a whole bunch of PhDs . . . and nice fellows - a few Muslims who could drink with the best of them.

They use long plastic skirts as rain protectors, but because they are so long they develop fungal growth and house all sorts of horrible creatures.
The man in the hat on the right is one of the world's foremost experts on latex extraction . . . second only to our very own jamescollister or however you spell it.

Guy on the left holding ethylene-based stimulant . . . definitely NOT to slaughtertap, james.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/379.jpg

Thirsty work so the foreman asked one of the workers to get some refreshments . . .

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/380.jpg

The foreman cut it up:

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/381.jpg

. . . and I enjoyed immensely.

https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2015/04/382.jpg

That's all folks . . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

As said, doubt you have ever really seen a rubber tree

---

You're an idiot.

OR, or are you really Henry Maier (amssydsing) UK resident, photo's belong to him.
Try again.

^::spam2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jamescollister

OR, or are you really Henry Maier (amssydsing) UK resident, photo's belong to him.
Try again.

---

You really are a sad case. It's my photobucket account and I certainly don't live in the UK.
You're wrong, why not simply accept that and move on instead of doing exactly what you do with your business - ignore and die.

You really are an idiot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Farmers that planted rubber trees post Aug 2000 must have been fcuking stupid. The warning was there for all to see.

Quote:

---

Aug. 1— Thailand, the world's top producer of natural rubber, plans to destroy more than 2 percent of its rubber trees annually as efforts at stockpiling have failed to bolster prices from near 30-year lows, officials said. The government plans to start logging on an annual 47,000 hectares of plantations by the end of this year and shift farmers to planting other crops. With 1.98 million hectares under cultivation, and 400 trees a hectare, Thailand produces a third of the world's natural rubber.
''This augurs well for rubber prices -- you'll see supply drop a lot,'' said Tan Swee Hua, managing director at Getahindus, a rubber-trading company in Malaysia. Malaysia has often tried to reduce the rubber supply, only to see cuts in its supply offset by increased output by Thailand and Indonesia, he added.
Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia, which produce 85 percent of the world's rubber, agreed this month to restrict supply to help farmers get prices that can sustain cultivation.
Thailand's first concerted effort to cut trees could bolster rubber prices and hurt tire makers, analysts said. The global tire industry buys $6.8 billion worth of natural rubber a year, with the top eight makers, including the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, buying 45 percent of the world supply.

---

Thailand Rubber Industry to Destroy Trees - NYTimes.com

Now 2015 and what is Thailand proposing to do with it's rubber tree surplus? :rofl:

---

Yeah Well, at the time many thought that the ill fated rice scheme was a good idea , including quite a few members on this forum , where are they now with their grandious ideas? the threads are still open :), IMHO whenever the Chinese get involved in any business it spells doom for their competitors

---

Yeah it spells doom allright the Chinese are totally ruthless when it comes down to the nitty gritty ,this article just another sad story although its some what off topic except the end result is the same China's iron ore tax cut puts heat on Australian miners