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  1. #26
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    Alieusmaximus's Avatar
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    Best of luck to you HB. My heart goes out to you.

  2. #27
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    Thai hospitals

    Without hiring investigators to try and prove that your wife was given tainted blood its just your word against the hospital's. You could flame the hospital with a website but everyone will ask the same question: How can you prove it? Of there were some way you could get the records, show that others treated at the hospital also contacted aids from tainted blood, show that there was an effort to conceal information, interview the hospital staff etc.

    I don't know much about how to detect for AIDS but If they did blood work on your wife before surgery and she was clean, did they do post op blood tests and would those test have dected AIDs if she got it during her hospital stay?

    Then again...even if you could prove it, it's hard to sue a hospital in Thailand, I understand.

    I've had good experiences at private Thai hospitals. I've also heard horror stories from friends and relatives. So it's always "let the buyer beware"

    Then again I've had good and bad experiences in America too. Nothing worth suing over but enough to lead me to believe mistakes are made even in American hospitals.

    Only a few hospitals in Thailand are certified by the Joint Commission International Accreditation. It's not a guarantee that mistakes don't get made but it does mean that they have been inspected but it does mean they meet western standards.
    Not sure if the hospital where you took your wife was one of them
    Last edited by egeefay; 18-03-2007 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad_dog View Post
    Terrible story. Fortune favours the brave HB.
    This is TRUE!

    You have a beautiful boy! You are such a lucky man!

    I can't imagine the pain you feel in regards to your lovely wife dying, but I think by you bringing up some awareness of the hospitals negligence could help negate this negative situation!

    Good luck to you & your son, you 2 look like strong men!
    "I'm never gonna work another day in my life
    The gods told me to relax
    They said I'm gonna be fixed up right
    "
    Monster Magnet

  4. #29
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    "Upwards of 45% of all blood donations in poor nations go unscreened for HIV, HCV or hepatitis B, they note. Such donations, the researchers say, are directly responsible for the infections of hundreds of thousands of transfusion recipients."

    Yikes.

  5. #30
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    Thanks for sharing this, I hope you can find some peace in the future from this nightmare you endure.

  6. #31
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    My condolences to you and your family, Hootad. Your wife gave you a wonderful gift and I hope some day you may overcome your anger at this this terrible injustice and live life happily with your son, as I'm sure your wife wants.

    If you truly believe in your heart of hearts that the hospital is at fault then I believe you should adverstise their negligence in any and all ways possible. Could save some others from your heartbreaking experience.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by egeefay View Post
    Without hiring investigators to try and prove that your wife was given tainted blood its just your word against the hospital's. You could flame the hospital with a website but everyone will ask the same question: How can you prove it? Of there were some way you could get the records, show that others treated at the hospital also contacted aids from tainted blood, show that there was an effort to conceal information, interview the hospital staff etc.

    I don't know much about how to detect for AIDS but If they did blood work on your wife before surgery and she was clean, did they do post op blood tests and would those test have dected AIDs if she got it during her hospital stay?

    Then again...even if you could prove it, it's hard to sue a hospital in Thailand, I understand.

    I've had good experiences at private Thai hospitals. I've also heard horror stories from friends and relatives. So it's always "let the buyer beware"

    Then again I've had good and bad experiences in America too. Nothing worth suing over but enough to lead me to believe mistakes are made even in American hospitals.

    Only a few hospitals in Thailand are certified by the Joint Commission International Accreditation. It's not a guarantee that mistakes don't get made but it does mean that they have been inspected but it does mean they meet western standards.
    Not sure if the hospital where you took your wife was one of them
    I can prove my wife died of AIDS, I can prove neither my son nor I have the virus and I can also prove when my wife didn't have it. That's enough for now.

    The best plan now is to simply make public what happened. Maybe if the word gets out, other people who may have been affected might contact me.

    The fact that people have simply read this makes me feel better. I will eventually make a website like this:

    Bumrungrad Hospital Death 2006

    That ought to get their attention.

  8. #33
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    Sorry for your loss. I would be careful with that bumrungradead thing, most of it turned out to be fibs. Not taht I am defending B'grad, they royally fucked my knee.

  9. #34
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    Condolences as well, HB. This is sadly not too surprising. The Thai medical industry is fatally flawed, in my opinion. I've personally witnessed incompetence on wide scale, and even had a relative of mine killed by Bangkok Hospital.

    As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't trust a local hospital with anything more serious than the work permit physical; it's nicely external.

    Even if the physician's qualifications are solid (a local MD means less than nothing, and the foreign university hospitals where he served his fellowships generally don't like to mess with the system and humiliate their fellows), the support staff are still locally trained. They're careless, prone to mishandling samples, misreading vitals and test-results, and acting as vectors for infection. Oh, and blaming the patient if you get worse.

    Anyone living in Thailand who has any serious ailment would be wise to seek treatment elsewhere.
    - Reg

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by playon View Post
    [SIZE=+1][COLOR=Red]"Upwards of 45% of all blood donations in poor nations go unscreened for HIV, HCV or hepatitis B, they note. Such donations, the researchers say, are directly responsible for the infections of hundreds of thousands of transfusion recipients."
    That is atrocious, it seems there are no limits to idiocy and laziness in the world and this is a surprise even by Thai standards.

    Keep us informed HB, I would contact the media back home (Canada?) - make a big stink, tabloids, local TV, magazines, I believe your story is more than important enough to be televised.
    "I'm an outsider by choice, but not truly. It's the unpleasantness of the system that keeps me out. I'd rather be in, in a good system. That's where my discontent comes from: being forced to choose to stay outside.
    My advice: Just keep movin' straight ahead. Every now and then you find yourself in a different place."

    George Carlin

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg Young View Post
    Condolences as well, HB. This is sadly not too surprising. The Thai medical industry is fatally flawed, in my opinion. I've personally witnessed incompetence on wide scale, and even had a relative of mine killed by Bangkok Hospital.

    As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't trust a local hospital with anything more serious than the work permit physical; it's nicely external.

    Even if the physician's qualifications are solid (a local MD means less than nothing, and the foreign university hospitals where he served his fellowships generally don't like to mess with the system and humiliate their fellows), the support staff are still locally trained. They're careless, prone to mishandling samples, misreading vitals and test-results, and acting as vectors for infection. Oh, and blaming the patient if you get worse.

    Anyone living in Thailand who has any serious ailment would be wise to seek treatment elsewhere.
    - Reg
    Great points.

    What happened to my wife is just a symptom of an overburdened "30-baht" healthcare system where staff are less experienced, hospitals have more patients and there is less money around. Corners get cut.

    What's also alarming is that the hospital we went to, Camillian, is actually a very nice and quite expensive private Catholic Hospital (think I'll send a link of this to the Vatican; they're used to being sued).

    But Camillian gets its blood from the Thai Red Cross, just like everyone else.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gentleman Scamp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by playon View Post
    [size=+1][color=Red]"Upwards of 45% of all blood donations in poor nations go unscreened for HIV, HCV or hepatitis B, they note. Such donations, the researchers say, are directly responsible for the infections of hundreds of thousands of transfusion recipients."
    That is atrocious, it seems there are no limits to idiocy and laziness in the world and this is a surprise even by Thai standards.

    Keep us informed HB, I would contact the media back home (Canada?) - make a big stink, tabloids, local TV, magazines, I believe your story is more than important enough to be televised.
    This is the first time I've posted all this information, and I'm really heartened by all the supportive remarks and comments. I sort of "dread this thread" but I'll just have to continue posting it into other forums.

    I'm thinking Lonely Planet, ajarn (again!), any ideas?

  13. #38
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    "Every year 250,000 Canadians get sick from an infection while staying in hospitals. Many infections could be prevented, but not just one doctor or hospital is to blame. Using hidden cameras, Erica Johnson exposes medical staff that could be doing more to help and may be putting your life at risk."

    8,000 will die from this.

    Horrifying, recently televised documentary about lethal infections regularly transmitted in Canadian hospitals due to unsanitary conditions:

    "Dirty Doctors"
    CBC.ca - Marketplace
    Last edited by Hootad Binky; 22-03-2007 at 03:51 AM.

  14. #39
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    Possible blood-bourne infections in Canada (again), this is from last week!!!

    Alberta hospital issues health alert over superbug, sterilization problems

    Published: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 | 8:53 PM ET

    Canadian Press: JIM MACDONALD

    VEGREVILLE, Alta. (CP) - A rural Alberta hospital has been ordered to stop taking new patients due to the spread of a potent superbug and the discovery that hospital equipment wasn't being properly sterilized.

    Seven patients in the 25-bed St. Joseph's General Hospital in Vegreville, east of Edmonton, contracted the antibiotic-resistant bacterial infection over a one-month period beginning in mid-January.

    "These are minor infections, usually skin infections, if any symptoms at all," Dr. Karen Grimsrud, deputy provincial health officer, said Tuesday.
    While most people who have been exposed to the infection don't get sick, it can trigger illness, especially when carriers go into hospital for medical care.

    Health officials have not pinpointed why the rate of infection at the hospital was unusually high. But Grimsrud said the bug - methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA - is generally spread by health-care workers not washing their hands between patients.
    Between 20 and 30 per cent of carriers go on to develop an MRSA-induced illness, ranging from skin or wound infections to abscesses to pneumonia.

    "The facility will be closed to all new admissions to make sure that no further patients would be exposed," Grimsrud told a news conference Tuesday at the legislature in Edmonton.

    An unrelated problem of improper sterilization of medical devices at the hospital was discovered by an infection control expert during a routine audit, she said.

    There's only a "very low" possibility that patients who had surgeries or were treated in the emergency room might have been infected with blood-borne illnesses by improperly sterilized instruments, said Grimsrud.

    But as a precaution, patients dating back to April 2003 are being sent a letter advising them to be tested for HIV and hepatitis B and C.

    "This will be a fairly major undertaking," she said. "We don't have the number of patients because we have to determine what procedures are actually at risk."

    Grimsrud confirmed that for one biopsy procedure alone - cystoscopy - 80 patients were being contacted.

    The sterilization problem was first spotted in late January during a routine surgical audit. The health authority ordered a halt to sterilization procedures at the hospital Feb. 13.

    But Grimsrud said when region's medical health officer went to the hospital last Friday, he noted the room was still in operation.

    "There was no more surgery, no more scoping, no more dental procedures, but the room was still being used for sterilization of other hospital equipment."

    Alberta's opposition parties said the delay is alarming.

    "The original order was given on February 13th, what's going on?" said Liberal health critic Laurie Blakeman.

    "They didn't have, what, the manpower, the willpower to be able to enforce any kind of order."

    Health Minister Dave Hancock said no one who was treated at the hospital has so far been found to have been infected by the improperly sterilized equipment.

    The sterilization problem was described as "fairly recent," so Hancock said health officials are just being prudent in alerting patients who were treated at the hospital as far back as 2003.

    "If no occurrences are found, which we expect and we hope, then that might be the end of it," said the minister.

    "If there was a circumstance, then you might have to go back further."

    Grimsrud said the inadequate sterilization problem was mainly the result of lack of training for staff involved in the cleaning process.

    "The inside of the scopes were not cleaned and so there's tissue and blood left from the previous patient," she said.

    Hancock said Albertans deserve and expect more from their health-care system, so he's ordered an immediate review by the province's Health Quality Council.

    "It's unacceptable to me, as I'm sure it is to most Albertans, that this situation could arise in our health system."

    The hospital is in the middle of Premier Ed Stelmach's riding.

    He said it's possible relatives or neighbours have received treatment with improperly sterilized medical equipment.

    A shortage of staff, which has been a problem at hospitals across Alberta, shouldn't have been a factor in this case, he said.

    "If there isn't enough people to sterilize the equipment, then you don't do the procedure."

    A public health order was issued Friday requiring the hospital to halt all admissions and close the sterilization room, but the order was not made public until Tuesday.

    Hancock downplayed the decision to wait four days before issuing a news release. He says the health order was posted Friday on the door of the hospital and provincial officials did not see an immediate need to issue a broader public alert.

    "There was no ongoing risk at that stage to any member of the public," he said. "There was no additional risk between Friday and (Tuesday)."

    Emergency and acute-care patients were being sent to nearby hospitals, and medical equipment requiring sterilization was also being sent to other hospitals.
    Last edited by Hootad Binky; 26-03-2007 at 03:03 AM.

  15. #40
    Khun Marmite
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    I'm very sorry to read this story about your wife, HB. I can't imagine the pain you have gone through. You have my heartfelt condolences.

  16. #41
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    Sorry for your loss.
    I lost my wife 10 years ago to MS aged 31and 29kg at the end.
    Never give up maintain the rage and use whatever means available to promote what happenned.
    For your own peace of mind and your sons as you have both been robbed.
    And get a web page up, Sixty minutes progamme might battle for you as well

  17. #42
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    Last night I finally brought it up with my son. I was just going to leave it until he mentioned it but we were talking about a fish that recently died in our aquarium while watching a cartoon about a crying baby and a harried young mother and for the first time I said to him "you know, you had a Mummy too but she died" and he was fine with that, understood that. We'd never discussed it until then.

    Sorry about your loss, corvettelover. It sounds like you were with her til the end. I'm sure she's watching over you, and waiting to see you again, so be good!

    Nevertheless, "do not go gentle into that good night..."

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootad Binky View Post
    ...
    Nevertheless, "do not go gentle into that good night..."
    Do not go gentle into that good night,
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
    Because their words had forked no lightning they
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
    Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
    And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
    Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    And you, my father, there on the sad height,
    Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Dylan Thomas

    Beautiful.

  19. #44
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    My Condolences

    Thats why I donate Blood each time when I stay in Thailand
    Few years ago we have had a Scandal about blood products too, here in Germany.
    They spread HIV/AIDS thru "Factor 8" a blood product needed to tread Haemophiles
    For planned surgery I would collect some bags from my own blood

    Sorry for my poor English

    Greetings and Regards

    Lothar from Lembeck

  20. #45
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    Lothar: good for you, that's why I put up this thread. People who are healthy should give blood, and also remain healthy by having a stock of their own blood before surgery to stay safe.

    The HIV blood contamination you describe also happened in Canada, but not only that, thousands of people (not just hemophiliacs) were also sadly contaminated in Canada with Hepatitis C, which is a very, very serious infection. They have finally got compensation but their lives have been ruined.

    I don't want people to be paranoid, just careful. Mistakes are made. Be careful.

  21. #46
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    This thread has pretty much confirmed what I always thought I would do if I needed surgery - I'll get a flight home.

  22. #47
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    ^Yep,that's exactly what I did.No way i'm letting thoses monkeys near me.

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    All well and good to say you will fly home for surgery IF it is planned. Lord help you if you need emergency surgery. It is my belief that blood in the UK, although screened, is not as safe as it could be. Just be thankful that you don't get paid to donate. Remember the blood scandal in China recently (past 3 years or so), many many many people became infected with HIV, Hepatitis etc. as chinese alcoholics and drug addicts virtually drained their bodies to pay for their next fix.
    I do donate every three months, it is a real bugger trying to get them to take my (healthy) blood - it seems the red cross can't understand a farang volunteering to give when there isn't a medical emergency. Strange lot at the Henry Dunant clinic.
    Hootad Binky, I do hope you get justice in the end.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbins View Post
    All well and good to say you will fly home for surgery IF it is planned. Lord help you if you need emergency surgery. It is my belief that blood in the UK, although screened, is not as safe as it could be. Just be thankful that you don't get paid to donate. Remember the blood scandal in China recently (past 3 years or so), many many many people became infected with HIV, Hepatitis etc. as chinese alcoholics and drug addicts virtually drained their bodies to pay for their next fix.
    I do donate every three months, it is a real bugger trying to get them to take my (healthy) blood - it seems the red cross can't understand a farang volunteering to give when there isn't a medical emergency. Strange lot at the Henry Dunant clinic.
    Hootad Binky, I do hope you get justice in the end.
    Yes, in an emergency it'd be a different story. I hope THAT never happens.

    I used to give blood in the UK. I got one of those small lapel pins with a heart on it after 25 donations. I'd like to do it here too, but not sure if I trust the cleanliness of the needle they use to extract it. Worries, worries, worries.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDN View Post
    UK. I got one of those small lapel pins with a heart on it after 25 donations. I'd like to do it here too, but not sure if I trust the cleanliness of the needle they use to extract it. Worries, worries, worries.
    I have given blood here (and in Malaysia) on several occasions - there is nothing to worry about - they open the sterile packing right in front of you, use gloves, etc - just as in the west.

    The only difference is that the nurses are prettier here than back home!

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