Thread: Employment contract request

This post isn't meant to be a rant, but i am a little pissed off and basically becoming disillusioned working with a Thai company and need some advice. What brought this to a head was not being offered Xmas day as paid holiday and a concern I will not receive any bonus for this year. In fact I have never received any bonus of any kind since working here but up until this year I never really felt like I especially deserved one.

I hope I am posting in the right place and sorry for the long post but I am seeking quite specific advice on this.

My first question regards definition of an "employment contract" in Thailand and the second concerns my negotiation towards a new one from the new year.

In brief my current job and responsibility is:

- Assistant CEO of a medium sized Thai company - 50+ employees, turnover about 70 million THB this year.
- Industry is IT (software and services)
- Monthly salary 50,000 THB (fixed salary, NO commission despite driving a lot of sales, e.g 1 deal this year was worth 6.5 million baht).
- I have had a work permit for about 2 years now (first year working was a PT cash in hand deal).
- Health insurance.
- I have worked here for 3 years (initially part time moving to full time 18months ago)
- 6 days annual paid holiday, 30 days sick (notice the theme - minimum requirements)

I suspect its partially as a result of the widespread incompetence and lack of ambition of my Thai co-workers but I would honestly assess my performance as 9/10 in terms of my contribution to the success of this company. Only the CEO and President have more accountability or responsibility. I don't consider it an achievement to outperform my fellow Thai employees (thats the rant part over). Based on the relationships I have built with our business partners and clients I would imagine I would be very hard to replace. I don't mean to "blow my own trumpet" but think its time I had someone at this company blowing mine



Question 1. Do I have an employment contract? Writing this it sounds ridiculous that I am not sure!

I have read a lot of references to an employment contract under Thai labor law. I had never really thought too much about it and presumed having a work permit meant I have a contract of employment?

Now, I have never been offered anything in writing and certainly never signed a contract. I think because of this I feel I have to "bargain" about everything with my employer, pay rises, paid holidays. This is the main reason I would like to have one in place and when/if I request for it brings me to the next question.



Question 2. What do you think I should expect as a reasonable salary + incentive package? I actually feel like my base salary is fair but am I right to expect a bonus? and more than my current 6 days paid holiday?

I was thinking that I might request:
- Base salary 50,000
- Annual bonus of 1 months salary
- 10 days paid holiday

* I feel underpaid in comparison to other foreigners I have worked with on a similar level but these are all working in other countries
* On the other hand I feel obliged/pressured to be grateful that in most cases I earn vastly more than the Thai staff in my company.


Anyway, I would really appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks in advance for at least reading the whole post.

Question 1: Contract
Ask to see the contract included with the Work Permit application forms. The contents may surprise.

Question 2 : Reasonable salary & package
Frankly, anyone's guess if you're not Thai. You argue & your Thai boss wil more than likely show you the exit door.

Originally Posted by watterinja

Question 1: Contract
Ask to see the contract included with the Work Permit application forms. The contents may surprise.

This is something I suspected. May be naively I have not looked into this further. I do recall signing my name dozens of times going through the WP ap.

So you are saying a contract with terms of employment is included in the WP application? I knew work title and salary were included but honestly it could say anything for all I know.

Thanks for the advice Waterninja

Why would you expect Xmas day as a paid holiday? You're working for a Thai company, in Thailand. You get Thai holidays that you wouldnt get in the west instead.

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

Originally Posted by watterinja

Question 1: Contract
Ask to see the contract included with the Work Permit application forms. The contents may surprise.

This is something I suspected. May be naively I have not looked into this further. I do recall signing my name dozens of times going through the WP ap.

So you are saying a contract with terms of employment is included in the WP application? I knew work title and salary were included but honestly it could say anything for all I know.

Thanks for the advice Waterninja

My understanding, in terms of Thai labour law, that a contract has to accompany each work-permit application. It is possible that you signed a Thai document unknowingly. Do ask for a copy of the contract submitted & have it translated for your own interest. It could tell you a lot about the way your company thinks.

Best of success...

Originally Posted by Gerbil

Why would you expect Xmas day as a paid holiday? You're working for a Thai company, in Thailand. You get Thai holidays that you wouldn't get in the west instead.

You are probably right G, I realize there are a lot of Thai holidays. But, i do have family here and it is the season of good will and all.

Frankly, I would be happy to swap any one of the Thai holidays for Xmas day and Boxing Day had I known earlier I would not be paid.

If you say when working for a Thai company we should act like we do in Rome, I should just throw sick days until the end of the year for good measure as thus far I used 8/30. I guess i am just not comfortable with that way of doing things but if thats your point you may well be right.

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

* I feel underpaid in comparison to other foreigners I have worked with on a similar level but these are all working in other countries
* On the other hand I feel obliged/pressured to be grateful that in most cases I earn vastly more than the Thai staff in my company.

know farangs in Thailand making as little as 30000 baht a month and as much as 400,000 baht a month, with a driver, and expense account.

I would only work for a foreign company if I was to take a job here.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Gerbil

Why would you expect Xmas day as a paid holiday?

Agree. Turns out Thais have far more paid holidays than most countries.

I believe it is more than 10 per year but no matter as it relates to paid holidays don't expect to get more than the company allows for Thai employees. As you point out your base salary is higher than Thai colleagues so you could hardly expect the company to give you more paid holidays as well.

I agree this could be well one of those cases of "like it or lump it".

I guess the problem really is that the Thai Holidays (with exception of the Western and Thai New Year) are dispersed. I am from the UK and therefore always use all my 6 days, usually + 2/3 unpaid days on 1 visit home per year to visit family.

I would happily exchange 10 of the Thai Public holidays, work from home and take 16 days when I choose - that might be another way it could be approached. It would allow 1 trip home + 2 actual "holidays."

I think we get about 15 days Public Holidays with the minimum being 13. + my 6 = minimum for me 18 days.

I think the circumstances are unique though as although we are a Thai owned company, we represent and service mostly International companies.

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

Frankly, I would be happy to swap any one of the Thai holidays for Xmas day and Boxing Day had I known earlier I would not be paid.

except aren't they closed for business on those days making it impossible for you to work anyway?

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

Assistant CEO of a medium sized Thai company - 50+ employees, turnover about 70 million THB this year. - Industry is IT (software and services) - Monthly salary 50,000 THB

what is this...an end of year troll...

FFS no one in his right mind would consider himself an Asst CEO on 50K...

weak troll to say the least...

Originally Posted by klongmaster

FFS no one in his right mind would consider himself an Asst CEO on 50K...

weak troll to say the least...

I was going to just ask you to politely FO but may be you understood the overall theme that I felt I was underpaid for my role.

The CEO of this particular company earns 75k per month, I never said I was working for Microsoft you fukwit.

Originally Posted by klongmaster

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

Assistant CEO of a medium sized Thai company - 50+ employees, turnover about 70 million THB this year. - Industry is IT (software and services) - Monthly salary 50,000 THB

what is this...an end of year troll...

FFS no one in his right mind would consider himself an Asst CEO on 50K...

weak troll to say the least...

Have to agree with klongy, seems a very low salary for such a position, I'd be looking for other work with such experience behind me.

You have to accept that this is Thailand and christmas ain't a holiday. I'm working christmas day and I have to accept it even though it is my son's first christmas

I would say that you have probably given them enough "training" for them to get on with it by themselves. They are probably hoping you will resign, makes it nice and clean for them. Do it, they will just coast along as normal without you. Unlike the UK there is nowhere for you to complain to or redress your grievances, TIT, you have been here 3 years, long enough to get streetwise on these matters.

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

I feel obliged/pressured to be grateful that in most cases I earn vastly more than the Thai staff in my company.

oh good effort, a samaritian.

Originally Posted by klongmaster

what is this...an end of year troll... FFS no one in his right mind would consider himself an Asst CEO on 50K... weak troll to say the least...

agreed.

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

The CEO of this particular company earns 75k per month, I never said I was working for Microsoft you fukwit.

microsoft? jesus, are you sure you didnt mean $50,000 per month?

or 500,000 thb per month?

Originally Posted by chitown

know farangs in Thailand making as little as 30000 baht a month and as much as 400,000 baht a month, with a driver, and expense account.

I know several farangs who wouldn't get out of bed for 400,000 baht a month......

Originally Posted by chitown

I would only work for a foreign company if I was to take a job here.

I dunno - the best deal I have ever had here in Thailand (or anywhere else, for that matter) was with a Thai company......

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

Question 1. Do I have an employment contract? Writing this it sounds ridiculous that I am not sure!

I have read a lot of references to an employment contract under Thai labor law. I had never really thought too much about it and presumed having a work permit meant I have a contract of employment?

Now, I have never been offered anything in writing and certainly never signed a contract. I think because of this I feel I have to "bargain" about everything with my employer, pay rises, paid holidays. This is the main reason I would like to have one in place and when/if I request for it brings me to the next question.

You would only have an employment contract if you signed one. What you maybe confussing here is whether or not you are a legally employed "employee". They are not one in the same. In this case, the definition you are mixing up is whether or not you may be entitled to servance on termination. As stated, this is not the same as an "Employment Contract" per se.

Lacking an employment contract, but being legally defined as an employee, does, however, entitle you to the protection of the LPA. But these are the minimals - anything beyond that must be in your employment contract.

Consequently, no, you do not have an employment contract, but are an employee of the company (provided you meet the requirements of the LPA).

Originally Posted by Chili Pepper

Question 2. What do you think I should expect as a reasonable salary + incentive package? I actually feel like my base salary is fair but am I right to expect a bonus? and more than my current 6 days paid holiday?

I was thinking that I might request:
- Base salary 50,000
- Annual bonus of 1 months salary
- 10 days paid holiday

* I feel underpaid in comparison to other foreigners I have worked with on a similar level but these are all working in other countries
* On the other hand I feel obliged/pressured to be grateful that in most cases I earn vastly more than the Thai staff in my company.


Anyway, I would really appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks in advance for at least reading the whole post.

These are subjective questions only you can answer. You cannot seriously recommend that I advise you to accept an annual bonus of 50,000 Baht.

One thing I would say is that on your salary (50,000) you would have to be from the UK. Because if you are from the US, then the salary you earn (or, rather, that you pay tax on), is not sufficient to fulfill the employment visa rules.

I say that becuase that may be something you should look at, i.e., paying tax on more than you earn.

Originally Posted by William

One thing I would say is that on your salary (50,000) you would have to be from the UK.

actually I just read in the immigration rules change on one of these threads that quoted the new rules, that figure has been reduced to 50,000 for Americans..I can't remember which one though to post the link..

^Thanks, had not realised that.

No offense - you should sort out holidays, salary, and bonuses before you accept employment.

Troll or not I don't know but about the salary, I thought apart from teaching (which has special dispensation), to employ a foreigner in Thailand, the base salary minimum is B60,000?

Originally Posted by deathstardan

Troll or not I don't know but about the salary, I thought apart from teaching (which has special dispensation), to employ a foreigner in Thailand, the base salary minimum is B60,000?

You didn't read the thread did you.

^^it differs for different countries. Also, it is not a minimum salary, per se, but a minimum tax. For example, if you earn 40,000 Baht a month, you still have to pay tax on 50,000 Baht in order to qualify.

Originally Posted by William

^^it differs for different countries. Also, it is not a minimum salary, per se, but a minimum tax. For example, if you earn 40,000 Baht a month, you still have to pay tax on 50,000 Baht in order to qualify.

really? that's it? I never knew that, I never read that before.. so the gov doesn't care how much you make as long as they get theirs? you're absolutely certain about that?

I think in any case the additional tax should come out of the company's pocket not the employee who is already taking the minimum thumping..