Hopefully the accounting students will sort out my shit. And its free
Printable View
Hopefully the accounting students will sort out my shit. And its free
Jaysus beerlaos, are you that hard up?Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlaodrinker
student haircut - no worries
Student massage - all good
student accountants to sort out your shit with the gummint?
two of those items have no lasting effect, but one could have serious consequences
I should have said "I wouldn't want to make any more large deposits in Thailand"... don't worry, I've made my fair share of mistakes in the past...Quote:
Originally Posted by Seekingasylum
Yeah, the mining boom also coincided with a busy oil and gas industry and made the Perth property market extremely buoyant around 2006 to 2013. China's slowdown put and end to the mining boom and oil and gas crashed 2015... my understanding is that the Perth property market is the worst it's ever been with few signs of an improvement in the near future. I believe that it's only really Chinese investment that's kept it going the past few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Cow
I would prefer to come clean and not stay dodgy... this has been playing on my mind of late. If not sold beforehand, the apartment will no doubt be willed to my daughter and then, as you say, my offences would be forgotten. My main concern is what will happen if I try to sell beforehand... if that would open a can of worms.Quote:
Originally Posted by sabang
There are substantial outgoings to offset against the rent... unavoidable strata fees are astronomical (around 1800$ a quarter), etc etc. My offshore work is through my own UK based limited company so I am well used to 'finding' expenses to offset against corporation tax, etc. My concern here is fines/prosecution for tax avoidance, if the ATO find out, which I think could be punitive.
This is now my first step next week... I think I'll start with a phone call to keep it off the record. I have a good relationship with my asset manager and I think she will be helpful. Hopefully this will lead to a suitable tax accountant. As discussed elsewhere, a small accountancy will be the way to go, rather than the expense of a big firm. Also, hopefully an accountant that's not a stickler for honesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by crackerjack101
Dave... I'm happy to keep this open as it's anonymous, and may be useful to someone else. I can't believe I'm the first person to get into this situation... aah, BLD below!Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
I bought the 98m2 apartment in 2004 for $340k AUD. Around 2013 it was valued at around $600k to $650k AUD, and currently it languishes at around $450k AUD. I wish I could go back to 2013, but there ya go. Capital gains won't be such an issue, my understanding is that it runs at a flat 30% for foreign residents, but is discounted by 50% if the property has been held for more than 1 year. But if/when I get my tax issues sorted I think I'll keep the place, at least until the price improves significantly... or if ever my daughter decides to live in Perth (she's only 8 at the moment).
I've only ever had one encounter with the ATO and it didn't end well. They appear to be a pack of professional c**ts so I wish anyone dealing with them all the luck.
The tenant changed around two years ago, and I've just received notice from the letting agents that the current tenant has given notice to vacate in a month's time, so I guess either event could be used as a good point to start declaring tax from. Do you not think the ATO may dig a bit deeper if I suddenly approached them with undeclared tax... and could they start investigating previous years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
We left Perth for Korat in 2006, and between 2006 and 2013 I kept bills in my name while friends rented the apartment. I'm not concerned about these years as to all intents and purposes I will still living there (unless the ATO link up with immigration...?). I want to go legit, but not completely.
I don't think capital depreciation is an issue as the property is now worth more than when bought in 2006, but I guess less than in 2013 when I started letting through an agent... it gets confusing... I guess this is why I need some professional help.
Sorry... are you saying that my rental income will have been reported to the ATO... what is a deposit to the Rental Bond Board and would the agents have necessarily made one? I don't understand this bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by TizMe
I need to look into this... someone mentioned to me that an account could be opened with an initial deposit of 70k Sterling. If I did sell the apartment that would be achievable, but then again if everything was sold legit then I guess there would be nothing stopping me transferring the money back to the UK. It would be nice to benefit from the appalling state of the Pound for once.Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
..and I need to edit this - it is PR, work permit or an awful lot of cash. And I can believe 70K sterling (honestly cannot remember).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
You won't find those, the ATO is tough and thorough. My accountant has three chairs in front of his desk . . . two for guests and the other stays empty - for the virtual tax department.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
He plays with his yarmulke as well, slipping it forward and back - quite funny.
They can bend a bit but a dishonest accountant won't be worth your trouble.
I can guarantee you that it can't be done in the way you believe. DBS sent me several e-mails recently requesting NZ, Aus and Malaysian tax residence status, tax-liabilities to the US, origin of deposits etc etc etc . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
I could only open mine because I had first an employment pass then came Permanent Resident status - without it you can't
Seriously, try establishing a Singapore off-shore account with HSBC or similar. I've had one for years, never really use it, though I can't remember the pre-requisites
MendipQuote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
I believe that when a Tenant pays a bond to a rental agent they must pay the bond into an account held by the government'sRental Bond Board.
So if your tenants have put up a bond, which I am sure they would have had to do, then there has most likely been a deposit made to theRental Bond Board with all the details of the property included.
If you want to use an Aussie accountant to sort out this situation then I could recommend the guy I have been using for the last 15 years. He is based in Adelaide and while he is not dishonest he is open to having discussions about which truths you need to tell him so he can get the best results, the untruths you don't tell him then as he says he is in the clear.
With regards to the "TIN" (Tax identification number) banks will ask for one now for any sizeable transaction, I don't have one. So far my reason for not having one has been accepted by all, "being resident in Thailand I am not required to have one as Thailand has not implemented CRS (Common reporting standards) & is not a signatory at this time"
Thailand are "planning" on meeting the standard, quite when who knows, then will need to get a Thai tax number, not sure quite what that will entail.
My offshore bank is also happy with this reason - so far.
Respectfully, you can as I did it last year (2 accounts actually with UOB), and I have not lived or worked in Singapore for 20 years. But the money was super legit, and inside Singapore.Quote:
Originally Posted by panama hat
Just end the management agreement with the current agent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
Go and stay there for a 2 months.
Get a new agent. Rent it out again. Declare the new income going forward.
They might. But on the other hand they might not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
Worst case you get a bill for tax for past years.
Get a backdated depreciation schedule (if that is possible) and most of the income will be offset by the depreciation.
??Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
If you bought for $500k and it is now worth $600k then you have $100k of CG taxable profit if you sell.
If you also use a depreciation schedule to offset income (e.g. $10k * 10 years = $100k depreciation) then you now have made a $200k capital gain if you sell so you will have to pay tax on $200k CG.
But CG is taxed at half the rate of income (if you are a resident - not sure about non-res)
:) . What one says before . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by nidhogg
It seems UOB is an exception, no idea why (I googled it and up came UOB - odd) . . . but the difference may be because the funds were in the country to begin with?
Uh - worst case is you get a bill for the past years and a massive f*ck off fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
You're going to keep the airline cutlery? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
^ :)
And the blankets!
There's a big difference between collecting and stealing!
Quote: Looper
Get a backdated depreciation schedule (if that is possible) and most of the income will be offset by the depreciation.
https://teakdoor.com/images/TD/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Mendip https://teakdoor.com/images/TD/butto...post-right.png
I don't think capital depreciation is an issue as the property is now worth more than when bought in 2006
??
If you bought for $500k and it is now worth $600k then you have $100k of CG taxable profit if you sell.
What Mendip said:
"I bought the 98m2 apartment in 2004 for $340k AUD. Around 2013 it was valued at around $600k to $650k AUD, and currently it languishes at around $450k AUD. "
I am now convinced that some people don't read what is said before they jump in and post a reply.
In Australia, all bonds are deposited to a government agency. In the case of WA it is Department of Commerce Bond Administrator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
From: Rental Bond: 1985-86 to 2019-20 financial years data matching program protocol | Australian Taxation Office
Rental Bond: 1985-86 to 2019-20 financial years data matching program protocol
At a glance
The ATO uses real property rental bond data from the state and territory rental bond authorities to identify properties that are income producing. Taxation obligations for tax payers holding income producing properties include correct reporting of rental income and capital gains tax (CGT). Ensuring taxpayers meet these obligations is achieved through educational strategies and compliance activities.
Taxpayers owning property producing income have income tax reporting obligations. When a property producing income is subsequently disposed of it triggers a CGT event. Property is often held for many years before being transferred or sold. To identify rental income impacts for CGT liability assessment real property rental bond data dating back to 20 September 1985 (the introduction of the CGT regime) is required. Collecting data back to 1985 does not change our general compliance approach of reviewing CGT events within the standard period of review.
Rental bond data is not a new data collection; it has been collected with the property transfer data under the real property transaction data matching protocol. Property transaction data matching first commenced in 2005 as state and territory based exercises under the CGT Compliance Challenge.
In the 2013–14 Federal Budget the government announced that it would legislate to make the reporting of property transfer data to the ATO mandatory. Legislation passed property transfer data from 1 July 2016. The Property transaction data matching protocol published in December 2015 has been amended to support the property transfer data. The rental bond data collection will be supported by this protocol.
This protocol has been prepared to meet the requirements of the Guidelines on Data Matching in Australian Government Administration 2014 (Guidelines) published by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner (OAIC).
Not legal advice since you should know to do your due diligence, just my understanding from a similar situation I encountered not a hundred years ago. If Oz law is anything like UK in this respect, your offence is not only far from forgotten but could become a burden to your daughter, because as a general principle when you owe the taxman they get first bite at everything and in your case they have the resources and a juicy sitting target to aim at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
Let's say your estate is that one property, to keep it simple and avoid confusion.
Ok, so you die, and they discover your crime before your daughter gets the keys; now she's vulnerable because they have first bite on the property; if it means selling the property in order to get paid they could force a sale and your daughter loses not just costs + interest + penalties + whatever extras they can squeeze in, but there's little to stop them selling it cheap for a quick sale, thereby causing her to lose equity as well. There may be corruption involved on this route, but no spite or malice; they want their legal debt and don't care how they get it.
Same, but they discover the debt after your daughter has sold the property; wouldn't swear to it but the principle stands, and as it is her that owes them the money they could go after her, again with costs etc.
Same, but before they discover the debt your daughter sells the property and leaves the country together with the money, leaving no assets behind. Little they could do in this case, but the liability isn't going anywhere, is likely growing, computers don't forget, and if/when she returns they will none too gently remind her of her (not yours) now larger debt. Unlikely that the debt would pass through to her next generation, but govs are increasingly desperate for money to burn so nothing would surprise me.
Easy to understand, they want their money.
^ Yes, Jabir, the more I think about it, the more I want to legit on this.
With time, databases, both nationally or internationally are going to become more more linked and I think it will become easier and easier for governments to detect and chase unpaid debts.
I have certainly benefited income tax-wise from being a nomad for the past 30 odd years, but as you say, in this case there is a nice juicy chunk of capital sitting there which won't be going anywhere and is an easy target.
From what TizMe has input above, the property may already have been flagged as income generating, and it certainly would come under scrutiny for Capital Gains if I was to sell.
And I just want peace of mind. To be honest the rental income (after outgoings) isn't huge and I don't think the tax bill will be onerous, but it's the interest and fines that may hike that up considerably.
I'm going to take professional advice as soon as possible to see what the likely outcome is, before proceeding with anything.
Thanks to everyone for the advice given.
Just go to a Aussie accountant and get the real facts about your problem, you will be taxed at a flat rate of 32.5% on all capital gains and profit from renting the property
The ATO can find out everything about your dealings in Australia from any government department or bank etc and if you do not inform them and they find out themselves which happens all the time you will get a very large fine for tax evasion on top of the bill for tax owed
^ Peter, yes thanks for that.
I was recommended a tax accountant and have sent all the details, rental statements, etc etc... and things are underway. Everything is quiet just now of course because of this coronavirus.
As usual, there are always unforeseen problems. In order to apply for a TFN I had to get two ID documents (passport and UK birth certificate) certified... and of course the only certifiers (?) they accept in Thailand are at the Aussie Embassy. That meant a trip down to Bangkok last week, all bars closed, however I did get some other stuff done.
Incidentally, it's a long way from finalised but the accountant is hopeful of having all fines waived and after the astronomical off-takes (strata fees in particular) there isn't so much profit to be taxed on.
Fingers crossed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendip
Mendip
When you went to Bangkok to the Aussie Embassy did you drive down?
Was the Embassy busy?
The reason I ask is the missus needs to get something certified to prove her ID so she can claim her Aussie superannuation before they (The fund) eat it all up in Insurance.
Cheers
Ootai,
I need to leave the car at home, so I've got in the habit of taking a bus to Bangkok. Many have phone charging and wifi now, and to be honest it's a rare four hours to meself... and all for 206 Baht to Morchit!
I went down two weeks ago, the roads were pretty quiet but the bars were closed, pros and cons.
You have to book an appointment at the Aussie Embassy but if you go to their website it's all very easy to follow. Send an initial inquiry email and they respond with the various departmental options and means to book an appointment. It seemed to me that you can pick and choose, and when I got to the embassy it was deserted.
If you need any links, no problem. I would be a bit concerned travelling down there just now in case there will be a travel ban imposed... which is why I went two weeks ago; I also stocked up on my daughter's meds.
I thought the only people/department that can certify a translated copy of anything is the 'Ministry of Foreign Affairs'?