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  1. #1
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    (P) Alimony/Child support from the non married EX....

    Hi Gents,

    I'm a newbie here seeking some advice or actually info if you've come across a similar situation...

    Been with the girlfriend for 10 years, we have 3 kids together, we sort of separated 5 years ago and both of us met new partners. However we did co-habit for the sake of the kids although generally not staying in the house at the same time. I've always paid for everything including International school fees, hospitals, dentists etc etc. Now we're splitting for good, I've received a lawyers letter asking for half the house which is in my (company) name. And 50% of a few other assets !

    Kids have lived with me for the past 6 months anyways, she also says she now wants to take care of the kids and receive child support. I'm happy to pay for everything (child support, education etc etc) if she's going to take care of the kids properly, BUT I'd rather not have to sell my house and give her half which would soon be blown on a new car, iPhone X etc etc....

    Anyone come across a similar situation that ended in court ? I'm a bit concerned as I am a farang and she is an educated Thai what my chances would be in a Thai court...

    Cheers Cliff

  2. #2
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    Chittychangchang's Avatar
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    Good luck Cliff you are gonna need it.

    If the 3 kids have been living with you for the last six months then what has the mother been doing?

    She now wants to take care of them as you are splitting officially?
    Sounds like it's all about money.

    Some harsh decisions coming your way soon.

    Good luck with it all and welcome to TD.

  3. #3
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    Counter sue. Go for custody first while the kids are with you. You can show that you're supporting them very well and she has had no interest.
    If you can win custody, then threaten her that you'll sue her for child support unless she gets reasonable.

  4. #4
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    You've got a valid argument seeing as though you've been a sole parent for the last six months.

    Go for it as suggested above, she fooked off and 9 times out of of ten when theres a fight through the courts.

    Main point to consider is the children,:they come first.

    Don't let her know that as she'll use it against you.

  5. #5
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    (Forum) Correct me if I'm wrong but ... the children, assuming you are living in Thailand, assuming she is a Thai National and you are not,
    even if your name is on the child's birth certificates, the children are not yours legally, unless there has been a court order.


    But, to your question ... offer her nothing. Laugh at the suggestion of selling the house*

    Sell nothing.

    Don't fall for the age old story of ... 'the private school costs $XXXX', 'food costs $XXXX', 'the ... costs $XXXX',
    thus just give me $XXX,XXX per month.

    If you want to school the kids in an International School, pay the fees directly and check they are enrolled AND attending.

    A stipend of BHT 5,000 per month is sufficient to pay for the child's costs ex International School Fees.

    If you Lawyer up ... be cautious. Thai Lawyers often don't work in their clients interests.

    If you have a genuine interest (and I'm sure you do), get the kids Passports to your (presumably) Western Country.


    * though, this statement "the house which is in my (company) name" which is highly legally questionable but
    maybe best saved for another day.

    ---

    Just a start and the best of luck.
    “Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago”

  6. #6
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    * though, this statement "the house which is in my (company) name" which is highly legally questionable but
    maybe best saved for another day.
    If it is a legit company with an address, business income, employees and a work permit etc.. then it should be OK. If it is a "company" for the sake of house purchase then keep "mum" about the house.

    Buy the house from the company? For a nominal fee. Not saying you should but you could then the you cannot sell one without the other. etc,etc.

    There are many ways to skin a cat.

    Does she have a new chancer Thai boyfriend?
    Better to think inside the pub, than outside the box?
    I apologize if any offence was caused. unless it was intended.
    You people, you think I know feck nothing; I tell you: I know feck all
    Those who cannot change their mind, cannot change anything.

  7. #7
    Thailand Expat Latindancer's Avatar
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    I agree with all the above. You are currently in a stronger position than her, having had the kids for 6 months. Do not do or say anything to weaken your position.

    For convenience sake and to analyze it better, temporarily break up the problem into sections.

    And yes....the house being in your company name is something that needs to be focused on for a while.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    My point was that the house and the land can be separate.

  9. #9
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    Thanks to all the BM's for your quick replies, I'll start replying to the replies !!!

  10. #10
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    Cheers Maanaam, Yeh I have considered going for Custody IF she does decide to go to court. But I've generally read you have slim chance if Farang vs Thai ....

  11. #11
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    Yes you're 100% correct, we're all living in Thailand, Not married but Yes we did declare me the father at Court a few years back ...
    All Kids also have UK Passports etc.
    For sure I'd be paying the schools directly !
    I will (Farang) Lawyer up next week...
    Cheers
    Cliffy


    Quote Originally Posted by David48atTD View Post
    (Forum) Correct me if I'm wrong but ... the children, assuming you are living in Thailand, assuming she is a Thai National and you are not,
    even if your name is on the child's birth certificates, the children are not yours legally, unless there has been a court order.


    But, to your question ... offer her nothing. Laugh at the suggestion of selling the house*

    Sell nothing.

    Don't fall for the age old story of ... 'the private school costs $XXXX', 'food costs $XXXX', 'the ... costs $XXXX',
    thus just give me $XXX,XXX per month.

    If you want to school the kids in an International School, pay the fees directly and check they are enrolled AND attending.

    A stipend of BHT 5,000 per month is sufficient to pay for the child's costs ex International School Fees.

    If you Lawyer up ... be cautious. Thai Lawyers often don't work in their clients interests.

    If you have a genuine interest (and I'm sure you do), get the kids Passports to your (presumably) Western Country.


    * though, this statement "the house which is in my (company) name" which is highly legally questionable but
    maybe best saved for another day.

    ---

    Just a start and the best of luck.

  12. #12
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    It's a company for the sake of the Land/House purchase. I'll keep MUM but not sure she would in Court !!!
    That's a good idea re buying the house from the company, although I guess a court could force a sale if it wanted to via Legal Execution Dept...
    Thai boyfriend : prefers Farangs BUT would like to come back to "take care of the kids" = sit around doing nothing all day !

    Quote Originally Posted by VocalNeal View Post
    If it is a legit company with an address, business income, employees and a work permit etc.. then it should be OK. If it is a "company" for the sake of house purchase then keep "mum" about the house.

    Buy the house from the company? For a nominal fee. Not saying you should but you could then the you cannot sell one without the other. etc,etc.

    There are many ways to skin a cat.

    Does she have a new chancer Thai boyfriend?

  13. #13
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    Yup the house is an issue, I'm thinking I should maybe sell below market price, and rent !

    Quote Originally Posted by Latindancer View Post
    I agree with all the above. You are currently in a stronger position than her, having had the kids for 6 months. Do not do or say anything to weaken your position.

    For convenience sake and to analyze it better, temporarily break up the problem into sections.

    And yes....the house being in your company name is something that needs to be focused on for a while.

  14. #14
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    you are fooked, Thai courts are not like in Europe, parents are responsible 50% and you can't negotiate that, so in that part you lost already

    your only way for more custody is through a private agreement, because if she gets less than 50%, the agreement will not stand the court if made public

    for the house you are fooked, it will be very easy to demonstrate that your company is a "proxy" and that becomes a "land office" case, it will be immiadetly liquidated unless you find a Thai buyer under your own terms

    don't listen the usual "delusional" farangs who tell you have nothing to lose and you hold all the cards. You can never make those assumptions in Thailand. If you do, you will loose everything for sure.

    If you want to have the upper hand, your only option is to get out of Thailand with your kids, with her approval.

    if she has a new boyfriend, this is actually your biggest advantage, she can spend more time with the new guy without taking care of the kids, but that usually last 6 months until they want to have the kids again. Should have left during the honeymoon period.

    Tough choices, and again no assumptions here. Thai courts will give 50% custody because family laws says you can't take away that "right" no matter what, wich is actually a sensible law, unlike in Europe where the ruling change everything and can create a lot of damages.

    Thai courts can be quite sensible, above all when kids are involved, so don't play the european "legal" attitude because that doesn't fly here with the judges.

  15. #15
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    Put the company and house in a trust for the kids. Carry on living there, and you'll have to pay market rent, so that goes to the trust but can be used for the kids' education expenses.

  16. #16
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    minors have to have a legal "guardian" for holding titles, and it's usually the mother, or a lawyer

    either case, can you afford to lose the property to a lawyer who can fake paperwork and organize the sale of the property without anyone knowing ?

    tell the wife you will buy her share of the house (she has 50% by default for living there) and that should do it,

    in the private agreement, state that you bought her share, and she will not make further claim to the house. If you go to court later over this, because of the dodgy "proxy" of the land, you will get paid the full amount by the court, instead of 50% for each, since you already paid her

  17. #17
    Thailand Expat Latindancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Put the company and house in a trust for the kids. Carry on living there, and you'll have to pay market rent, so that goes to the trust but can be used for the kids' education expenses.
    That's an interesting bit of lateral thinking.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    you are fooked, Thai courts are not like in Europe, parents are responsible 50% and you can't negotiate that, so in that part you lost already

    your only way for more custody is through a private agreement, because if she gets less than 50%, the agreement will not stand the court if made public

    for the house you are fooked, it will be very easy to demonstrate that your company is a "proxy" and that becomes a "land office" case, it will be immiadetly liquidated unless you find a Thai buyer under your own terms

    don't listen the usual "delusional" farangs who tell you have nothing to lose and you hold all the cards. You can never make those assumptions in Thailand. If you do, you will loose everything for sure.

    If you want to have the upper hand, your only option is to get out of Thailand with your kids, with her approval.

    if she has a new boyfriend, this is actually your biggest advantage, she can spend more time with the new guy without taking care of the kids, but that usually last 6 months until they want to have the kids again. Should have left during the honeymoon period.

    Tough choices, and again no assumptions here. Thai courts will give 50% custody because family laws says you can't take away that "right" no matter what, wich is actually a sensible law, unlike in Europe where the ruling change everything and can create a lot of damages.

    Thai courts can be quite sensible, above all when kids are involved, so don't play the european "legal" attitude because that doesn't fly here with the judges.

    I'm OK with 50% Custody, I think thats for for all parties ie Mum, Dad and Kids...
    It's the giving away half the house I paid for that is annoying cos I doubt if it gets sold her money would go towards the kids and would run out in a few years ....

    And we were never married but that sounds like its irrelevant yeh ?

  19. #19
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    I'll look that idea, that would definitely work for me !

    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Put the company and house in a trust for the kids. Carry on living there, and you'll have to pay market rent, so that goes to the trust but can be used for the kids' education expenses.

  20. #20
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    We're not actually man and wife but I believe there is a court view of cohabiting for 5 or more years that will come into consideration ....
    In effect after 5 years are you considered married ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    minors have to have a legal "guardian" for holding titles, and it's usually the mother, or a lawyer

    either case, can you afford to lose the property to a lawyer who can fake paperwork and organize the sale of the property without anyone knowing ?

    tell the wife you will buy her share of the house (she has 50% by default for living there) and that should do it,

    in the private agreement, state that you bought her share, and she will not make further claim to the house. If you go to court later over this, because of the dodgy "proxy" of the land, you will get paid the full amount by the court, instead of 50% for each, since you already paid her

  21. #21
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maanaam View Post
    Put the company and house in a trust for the kids. Carry on living there, and you'll have to pay market rent, so that goes to the trust but can be used for the kids' education expenses.
    This may be irrelevant or even redundant if the law has changed, but some years back I checked on the trust route and was advised that Thailand does not recognise trusts. This may have been a reference to all or only certain types of trust. Against that is a recent overheard phone chat between another lawyer and his client, in which the trust route was being discussed as a valid option.

    I expect more specific info in a month or two, but meanwhile can anyone shed light on validity of Thai trusts or types of?

  22. #22
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    DF makes sense, if at all possible avoid the courts where your interests earn a rather low priority.

    And an agreement is better than no agreement. But what's the legal status of any agreement you sign with wifey if she later claims to have been forced or coerced or threatened or even rushed into it, and could her retraction affect other matters?

  23. #23
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    I'll check : I think to finalize it now in courts might make me sleep easier in the future if the legal status of a mutual agreement is in doubt , meeting Farang lawyers next week....


    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    DF makes sense, if at all possible avoid the courts where your interests earn a rather low priority.

    And an agreement is better than no agreement. But what's the legal status of any agreement you sign with wifey if she later claims to have been forced or coerced or threatened or even rushed into it, and could her retraction affect other matters?

  24. #24
    Thailand Expat David48atTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    in Thai court, it doesn't matter, she is your common wife, a term meaning you two are "unofficially" married and
    carry some common responsibilities she is owed the 50% of the house if you moved in together, even if she didn't pay for it.
    Same same as the US or Europe for married couples.

    etc. etc.
    Humm ... my understanding is completely different.

    Before I took the time to reply, I consulted my Thai Partner as she confirmed my thoughts.

    To start ... co-inhabiting/defacto relationships is a 'Western' concept and has no bearing/relevance on your situation.

    In the eyes of the Thai Law, you are not married and thus she has no claim over your house, nor personal effects.

    To wit ...

    Common law marriages also referred to as a 'de facto' marriage is basically a marriage that is not officially registered but is recognized by law as a legal valid marriage or becomes valid after a period of time in which a man and a woman have cohabited as husband and wife and presented themselves to the outside world as husband and wife.

    In some countries such a 'de facto' marriage is recognized as a valid marriage.

    The principle of a common law or de facto marriage (whether it concerns a heterosexual or homosexual couple) is NOT recognized under Thai law.
    Marriage under the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code shall be effected only on registration being made.

    Only registered marriages entered into the marriage register (section 1457) are recognized as legal and valid marriages in Thailand and will create the rights, duties and responsibilities of husband and wife under Thai family laws.


    In Summary, how I see your situation ...

    The children are legally 'hers' unless you have a Court Order stating differently.
    You say you have that, so that's sorted ... well done.
    My understanding the Courts will have issued Full or Joint Custody ... is that what your document decrees?

    She has no claim over your house/investments/personal belongings,
    She's trying it on with the Lawyer Letter of Demand.
    ---

    Personally, I wouldn't be going to Court as she has no basis for her claim.

    Let her try and bring that action in the Thai Courts ... which she can't because she can't make her case because, under Thai Law, you were never married and Thai Law doesn't equate/elevate a defacto relationship to that status equal to being married.

    I be wary of any Lawyer suggesting you contest this in Court as I'd see that as a Lawyer simply looking for fees.

    I would, however, pay the Lawyer to write to her refuting her claims.

    Be concerned when your children are released to their Mother for any stays.
    They might just simply disappear and then be used as a bargaining chip if she realises she has no claim over your house.
    That might sound cynical, however, it wouldn't be the first time it's happened in Thailand.


    Good Luck with it and do inform the Forum what eventually emerges, we all learn from that.

  25. #25
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    the new bf may view it more cost effective to erase you from the equation one way or another

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