help needed for engineer's material specifications

**splitlid** · 19-06-2009, 09:10 AM

dont forget your internal walls

but you seem to be doing pretty well so far.
see, that didnt take long, now finish up before recess.

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Why should he check what materials you need when it is you that will be ordering them, if we reckon thats 15 hours work per week working out material orders etc why should he waste his time doing that when his time can be more profitably spent actually running the site?

I don't no of any Thai contractor that will start building a house without a deposit, I am sure there must be some, you will find a few of the big farang building companies will start work without deposits etc, obviously their profit margins are higher so they can afford to do this, to start the job is just land clearing and digging holes, a bit of cement, some wood and a few blocks, so the initial deposit is only a small amount anyway.....

hi DD

what you said about the contractor spending additional hours to work out the boq is true.

so i reckon in negotiation for the labour only price, to include the boq calculation together.

the thing is to be upfront and not surprise the contractor later with the boq request when prices have already been agreed upon

there is of course, the distinction between thai and farang contractor as you rightly pointed out. so i guess tiscar was referring to farang contractor while i meant thai contractor.

so to whether a thai contractor will accept no deposit for labour only(i buy all materials), i guess it will depend on the individual contractor and negotiation skills

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by splitlid

dont forget your internal walls

but you seem to be doing pretty well so far.
see, that didnt take long, now finish up before recess.

i think a teacher, besides providing encouragement, should also provide the answers from time to time

internal walls are red bricks

**dirtydog** · 19-06-2009, 10:21 AM

Why are you worrying about how much sand you may need? It's the cheapest thing you will be buying, you are buying the materials so you have to sort out where they will be kept and work out how much sand will be soiled from dirt contamination, ie a 10 wheel truck full of sand starts at 3,000 odd baht, where will you put it? How much will be in contact with the dirt? How much wastage will you have as dirt isn't a good mixer for concrete, once you work out how you will order and store sand then an amount can be worked out, sand doesn't neatly stack into piles like bricks and blocks do, will you put something down on the dirt to protect the sand, maybe a small concreted area for the sand, these are things you have to work out as you are buying the materials.

**splitlid** · 19-06-2009, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by wanna

Originally Posted by splitlid

dont forget your internal walls

but you seem to be doing pretty well so far.
see, that didnt take long, now finish up before recess.

i think a teacher, besides providing encouragement, should also provide the answers from time to time

internal walls are red bricks

ok here ya go, some of mine are wrong as ive done it for modeling purpose only, but close enough

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Why are you worrying about how much sand you may need? ......

hi DD

generally i worry about all things that remain unquantifiable. storage of materials is something i worry about, ie as to how big to build the shed so that materials can be stored optimally.

the part about sand i had not thought about contamination as this is my 1st build..so that comes in useful.

now this is one question i will have to resolve with the contractor, ie to build a shed large enough to hold all the cement, sand and stone in 1 order, or to split up the orders to be used on a jit basis.

this will largely depends on the experience of the contractor and a balance between the additional transport costs of repeated trips vs cost savings derived from materials ordering in a single order

of course this all sounds pretty nice in theory, but in practice i realise there are significant tradeoffs to be made

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 12:15 PM

hi splitlid

could i use some of the details below for foundations, footings and beams with little or no modification?

**splitlid** · 19-06-2009, 12:28 PM

wanna,
take the advise you have been given here, and that is to get your beams/foundations etc done specific for your job.using someone elses foundations for a completely different house is not adviseable.
for the small amount of money it costs to do will be well worth it in the future.
wanna-'oh i saved 10,000 baht by copying the foundations from someone else'
lawyer-'oh so thats why the place has fallen down'
(lawyer has been employed to find out who is at fault for the house falling down)

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by splitlid

wanna,
take the advise you have been given here, and that is to get your beams/foundations etc done specific for your job.using someone elses foundations for a completely different house is not adviseable.
for the small amount of money it costs to do will be well worth it in the future.
wanna-'oh i saved 10,000 baht by copying the foundations from someone else'
lawyer-'oh so thats why the place has fallen down'
(lawyer has been employed to find out who is at fault for the house falling down)

yes this is good advice.

do you think we can discuss something privately for the foundation/shop drawings/boq, nothingwithstanding your stand in the other thread?

hehe

**splitlid** · 19-06-2009, 12:54 PM

sorry mate, wont do it.

whats wrong with your architect doing it for you?

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by splitlid

sorry mate, wont do it.

whats wrong with your architect doing it for you?

i think he wont be as detailed as you.

is actual surveying of the land your only hesitation in taking over the job?

because anyway the structural engineer will be specing from bkk without ever seeing the land.

if it's professional pride, then i dont understand but will respect

if it's too messy, then i understand

**dirtydog** · 19-06-2009, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by wanna

now this is one question i will have to resolve with the contractor, ie to build a shed large enough to hold all the cement, sand and stone in 1 order, or to split up the orders to be used on a jit basis.

The shed would have to be bigger than your house you will be building if you order in one hit.

**splitlid** · 19-06-2009, 01:19 PM

all of the above

seriously, i only touch my own stuff, that way i can guarantee that all is correct.
taking on someones work makes that guarantee void in my eyes, which has potential for all sorts of problems.

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

The shed would have to be bigger than your house you will be building if you order in one hit.

yup i thought it would be so

**wanna** · 19-06-2009, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by splitlid

all of the above

seriously, i only touch my own stuff, that way i can guarantee that all is correct.
taking on someones work makes that guarantee void in my eyes, which has potential for all sorts of problems.

yes it's very messy.

**Loombucket** · 19-06-2009, 10:20 PM

This is starting to get interesting now. No offence intended wanna, but the pillars/footings really need to be matched to the load that they will carry. You can borrow from another design, but again, I strongly recommend against it.

**splitlid** · 19-06-2009, 11:25 PM

well, i think everyone on this side is pretty much in agreement wanna.
are you 100% convinced?
what are the issues you have?
were all friends here, you can tell us.
we can help if you need us

**wanna** · 20-06-2009, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Loombucket

This is starting to get interesting now. No offence intended wanna, but the pillars/footings really need to be matched to the load that they will carry. You can borrow from another design, but again, I strongly recommend against it.

hi Loombucket,

i agree with you that ideally it should be matched.

the footings i shown here is from a 4 storey house which if i use for the planned build would probably be overspec. so i think there is a large margin of safety.

the way the horizonal reinforcement for the columns are twisted at 135 degree are not something i have seen before.

construction photos of the best i have seen so far are those twisted at 90 degrees and then tied together with thin wire

so if the building does collapse, it would be due more likely to poor construction( contractor, labour crew) than to using the specs from the particular house

**wanna** · 20-06-2009, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by splitlid

well, i think everyone on this side is pretty much in agreement wanna.
are you 100% convinced?
what are the issues you have?
were all friends here, you can tell us.
we can help if you need us

hi splitlid

i think it is a universal issue of getting value for your money paid.

for an analogy, you go to a local wet market and looking to buy oranges. after comparison at a few stores, you narrow down to 2 stalls which on initial inspection seem to offer the same quality for the same price.

after deciding to buy from that stall, you are told that the oranges can only be collected after 1 week. ok...but then 1 week later, the seller said to wait another week. this goes on for 1 month.

finally you can collect the orange. but you are not happy.

then you think of buying apples. so you decide to scout around now by going to the other stall. the seller lets you try the apples for free and you are happy with the quality. collection would be a few days time. significantly shorter than the 1st stall.

so u ask the seller how much. he say cannot sell to you. why? because you didnt buy orange from him the 1st time. his is a package deal. you have to buy the orange and the apples together from him.

so he advised you to go back to the 1st stall to get the apples...

**splitlid** · 20-06-2009, 08:02 AM

oh nice anology,
however i would liken it more to a chef and asking him for a bowl of soup, when you get the soup it tastes bloody awful,
so you take the soup to another cef and ask him to make it taste better, but no matter what the chef does with it, it will always have the origional soup taste.
better to get the new chef to throw away the old soup and start agaain.

apples and oranges....ummmmm...starting to sound like a good comparison actually.

**wanna** · 20-06-2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by splitlid

.......throw away the old soup and start agaain.

apples and oranges....ummmmm...starting to sound like a good comparison actually.

start again is very expensive

no analogy is 100% i think, more important is friend can help or not

**splitlid** · 20-06-2009, 08:43 AM

^agreed,
thats why we need to find a solution, and using someone elses foundations are definately not the answer.

**dirtydog** · 20-06-2009, 08:53 AM

to get the steel round to 135 degrees would double the time on making them on each one, make sure if you want to go this route you stress this to the contractor as it will double the time needed and increase his labour cost.

**wanna** · 20-06-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by splitlid

^agreed,
thats why we need to find a solution, and using someone elses foundations are definately not the answer.

hi splitlid

if you check the drawings no name and signature of the architect can be found, as i had explained the nature of the land to him

subsequently no liability can be assumed for any party helping out a friend

**splitlid** · 20-06-2009, 09:40 AM

^ i believe thats not actually true,
the copyright stays with the architect, he basically only gives a lisence to use his design.
regardless of whether his name is on the documents.
for anyone to do any work on the drawings should require the origional architect to sign the drawings over.

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