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  1. #126
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    Ratchaburi's Avatar
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    Mate Great news, Good luck, hope you can keep it under 1M, but I think you may have to through a little more change at your project.
    Pool equipment in Thailand is over priced.

    Do you know Pentair pool equipment from the USA.

  2. #127
    CCBW Stumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    Mate Great news, Good luck, hope you can keep it under 1M, but I think you may have to through a little more change at your project.
    Pool equipment in Thailand is over priced.

    Do you know Pentair pool equipment from the USA.
    Thanks Ratchaburi and I agree. I am waiting for the equipment list and maker. I already hedged that I will likely have to add 200K more but I will wait and see. And Yes pool equipment here is overpriced but I assume that is due to its all imported and not high volume

    Yes I know of Pentair. Lots of folks swear by them. I forgot what I was using in the states. I will go on the notion that almost all here are cartridge filtration versus diatomaceous earth systems. I read up a few years back the cartridge systems are very efficient nowadays.

  3. #128
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    My another 2 cents (Baht):

    As far as I have learned from my many hours browsing various pool forums, the cartridge filters are used mainly at small pools. And I have read many complaints on them, people often change them to an old good sand filter.

    Why? The cartridges cannot be easily backwashed as the sand filters are, the filters have to be dismantled and the cartridges sprayed by power water - surely not an easy job with a lot of dirt around the fashie pool. And the cartridges do not always withstand the cleaning (some even not recommend that), so buy a new refill and have few more sets on hand.

    The cartridge filters are now increasingly offered also for larger pools - more expensive than the sand filters - claiming that they do not need to be cleaned so frequently as sand filters (not losing water and chemicals by backwashing - what else they can claim?), some say exchange only ones in a half year. I would like to see such case - when after a heavy rain like now in these days are - when the pool water looks green/gray.

    The stormy rain taking in all the dirt from the air around, not only the dirty dust but also the green dust from the vegetation around (not really green but black), in springtime much more than later. And that in addition to the usual dirt and algeas that the filter has to care for. Surprisingly, even such green water residua will block the filter completely very soon.

    Then, instead of a half year period it is every 2 -3 days, or even the next day after the rainstorm. So everything what is promoted in the companies catalogs needs to be taken with a good consideration, they want to sell. And not only the equipment once in 20 years but after sale. Same as the many special chemicals and many gadgets that are kindly advised, such sale keeps the companies over the water.

  4. #129
    CCBW Stumpy's Avatar
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    I am on the fence about cartridge filters Klondyke. Years ago in the states when they first came out they were terrible primarily due to they were sized to small, the cartridge media was not very robust and plugged all the time and the retro systems were not well thought out.

    Nowadays they appear to have come quite a long way and are offered in most new home pool set ups. However that hasn't full convinced me as of yet. I am the old diatomaceous earth guy but sand works too. Downside is back washing is always messy and time consuming. Having a cartridges to swap out isn't such a bad option as long as the cost isn't outrageous. Just have a few on hand and swap them in and out and clean when you have time. The filter tanks now are all the Delron type plastic so no rusting filter housing and hardware anymore.

    Still doing my research. The key to any filter and pump set up is keeping it out of the elements and dry. I have seen many pump/filter shacks that were always wet and stuff just falls apart being damp all the time.

    Great having a project like this to research.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    Downside is back washing is always messy and time consuming.
    That's I quite do not understand. Doing it every 3 - 7 days (depending on weather). It's just re-positioning the 6-way valve and have the water flown for ca. 20 - 30 sec. Seeing the water discharge once it gets clean, changing shortly to rinsing to get the hidden dirt move on - then the valve back to filtering, that's finished.

    Now in these days (and nights) when the strong shower brings so many dirt, all is dipped under the surface. The discolored (green/grey) water from the vegetation dust needs an increased filtering time. Will the cartridge catch it all without being clocked and without replacing it every day?

    Editing:
    Now I see you have meant backwashing of the cartridges, yes I agree, that's messy.

    I am speaking about backwashing of the sand filter, the sand over 10 years old, can be there for 100 years. Filling the filter tank by the river sand you can get for 80 Baht a bag (falang price), sorted in some 4 sizes from ca. 0.3 mm and higher...
    Last edited by Klondyke; 27-04-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post

    I am speaking about backwashing of the sand filter, the sand over 10 years old, can be there for 100 years. Filling the filter tank by the river sand you can get for 80 Baht a bag (falang price), sorted in some 4 sizes from ca. 0.3 mm and higher...
    Klondyke

    You should replace the sand in the filter 5-7 years, as the sand needs to be sharp, not have rounded corners.
    A normal sand filter would be backwashed every 30 days, the filter work a lot more efficient if there a little dirty

    Swimming pool filtration options are

    1 Diatomaceous earth filters under 5 micron
    2 Cartridge filter 5 -10 micron
    3 Sand filter
    Silica sand 20 micron ( washed river sand) Activated Glass media 7-10 micron
    Lets face it, you like to swim in the pool not drink the water

  7. #132
    Thailand Expat VocalNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Most of the year I have to cool down the water by my ingenious Hi-Tech cooler over night. Now succeeding to get 29C morning down from 31-32 I got the evening before. At 8pm my tiles (of light color) that are above the water level are still hot when touching.
    You may see small cooling towers in roadside junk yards without realizing what they are?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Swimming Pool costs-pl13385260-small_size_counter_flow_cooling_tower_ct_10-jpg  

  8. #133
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    I have a customer in Vietnam who ordered a swimming pool from Thailand & it was my job to deliver the swimming pool.
    The pool was 12 metres X 4.5 with Infinity edge on 1 side.
    Fibreglass swimming pools are 1 peace & all the shipping companies quoted $8000.00 usd.
    So we cut the swimming pool in half, put it into a 40ft HC container, then put it back together on the 6 floor of a hotel in Vietnam.
    I hope these picture come out the right.

    Swimming Pool costs-viet-1-jpg
    Swimming Pool costs-viet-2-jpg

    Swimming Pool costs-viet-3-jpg

    Swimming Pool costs-viet5-jpg

    Swimming Pool costs-viet6-jpg

    Swimming Pool costs-viet8-jpg
    After we finished there was no line in side the pool
    Swimming Pool costs-olympic-vietnam1-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Swimming Pool costs-viet7-jpg  

  9. #134
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    ^Very impressive action...

    However, I am wondering why the poor Vietnamese could not manage a pool by a usual way of concrete and ceramic tiles, so easy with the available material here around and the cheap workmanship. Perhaps a question (and sense) of a (cheap) business?

    Or if they do not want the classical materials they surely could make it by a plastic in the same way as it is made in Thailand.

    More than 50 years ago I made my canoe by glass-fibre onto a simple form. Similarly also 50 years later here in Thailand, not wanting to have such a heavy boat from the heavy plastic as sold along the superhighways, same material as the water tanks.

    Swimming Pool costs-2002130008-jpg


    And be able to pull it in/out by myself on my rounds chasing the water beasts.
    Swimming Pool costs-19010106-jpg

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    Klondyke

    You should replace the sand in the filter 5-7 years, as the sand needs to be sharp, not have rounded corners.

    Swimming pool filtration options are

    1 Diatomaceous earth filters under 5 micron
    2 Cartridge filter 5 -10 micron
    3 Sand filter
    Silica sand 20 micron ( washed river sand) Activated Glass media 7-10 micron
    Lets face it, you like to swim in the pool not drink the water
    Let me allow few remarks:
    The sand is laying in the river over few hundreds miilions years. Wondering whether the 20 micron sand corns are after so many years in the wild river sharp or round? And/or whether they lose their sharpness in my humble filter vessel within 5 - 7 years? Perhaps I should look at it by a microscope...

    And I wonder whether somebody can prove how much better water comes from a glass or zeo-glass filter than from a filter with sand millions years old.

    BTW, anybody tried to get the old sand out from the filter vessel (by handful palms)? Or somebody by a crane, turning it over? And to fill in the new (sharp) sand carefully, not to damage the pipe arrangement inside?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    A normal sand filter would be backwashed every 30 days, the filter work a lot more efficient if there a little dirty
    How the backwashed outlet looks like after few days of bad weather (however, even not much better in a normal weather):



    Attachment 49815


    Thinking that I should force my (almost) drinking water thru such filthy sand for another 3 weeks? The filter will do his job better with a dirty sand?
    Do we use a 2nd-hand paper bag in our vacuum cleaner or coffee machine?

    Similar advices I have read when browsing thru pool forums. And they tell you, the backwashing has to take at least 4 min. long. After that your pool is (at least) half empty, new water and what's more important: add new chemicals.

    And I am wondering when first they said, the filter has to be dirty. Then they say backwash 4 min. long into the super-clean. So where is the logic? The super-clean sand will not make the filtering so good, will it?

    Yes, every bottom vaccuuming and the backwashing will lose a lot of water, few thousand litre. They kindly advise you not to do so frequently, instead use more chemicals for clearing the water - permanent dosing.

    I - in order not to lose much water - and not to use much chemicals - make the bottom vacuuming more frequently, once in a week or earlier after a heavy rainstorm. And while the bottom is mostly not so heavily dirty, I make the sucking thru the filter, bringing the water back into the pool as at the normal filtering. Sometimes, when the filter has already enough and from the outlets I see clouds spew out, I switch it over for fully drain.

    Afterwards comes the filter backwashing - some 20sec - seeing when the backwashed water is already clear - so killing two birds by one stone, losing just few hundreds of water, it needs some refreshing anyway.

    So, after my many hours spent with browsing the pool forums (always run by the swimming pool companies), I have found that behind every kind advice is a (not so much) hidden agenda.
    e.g.: Exchange the sand within 5 - 7 years, do not wait for 100 years....

    I do not (always) drink the water, just swim...

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Let me allow few remarks:
    The sand is laying in the river over few hundreds miilions years. Wondering whether the 20 micron sand corns are after so many years in the wild river sharp or round? And/or whether they lose their sharpness in my humble filter vessel within 5 - 7 years? Perhaps I should look at it by a microscope...

    And I wonder whether somebody can prove how much better water comes from a glass or zeo-glass filter than from a filter with sand millions years old.

    BTW, anybody tried to get the old sand out from the filter vessel (by handful palms)? Or somebody by a crane, turning it over? And to fill in the new (sharp) sand carefully, not to damage the pipe arrangement inside?



    How the backwashed outlet looks like after few days of bad weather (however, even not much better in a normal weather):



    Attachment 49815


    Thinking that I should force my (almost) drinking water thru such filthy sand for another 3 weeks? The filter will do his job better with a dirty sand?
    Do we use a 2nd-hand paper bag in our vacuum cleaner or coffee machine?

    Similar advices I have read when browsing thru pool forums. And they tell you, the backwashing has to take at least 4 min. long. After that your pool is (at least) half empty, new water and what's more important: add new chemicals.

    And I am wondering when first they said, the filter has to be dirty. Then they say backwash 4 min. long into the super-clean. So where is the logic? The super-clean sand will not make the filtering so good, will it?

    Yes, every bottom vaccuuming and the backwashing will lose a lot of water, few thousand litre. They kindly advise you not to do so frequently, instead use more chemicals for clearing the water - permanent dosing.

    I - in order not to lose much water - and not to use much chemicals - make the bottom vacuuming more frequently, once in a week or earlier after a heavy rainstorm. And while the bottom is mostly not so heavily dirty, I make the sucking thru the filter, bringing the water back into the pool as at the normal filtering. Sometimes, when the filter has already enough and from the outlets I see clouds spew out, I switch it over for fully drain.

    Afterwards comes the filter backwashing - some 20sec - seeing when the backwashed water is already clear - so killing two birds by one stone, losing just few hundreds of water, it needs some refreshing anyway.

    So, after my many hours spent with browsing the pool forums (always run by the swimming pool companies), I have found that behind every kind advice is a (not so much) hidden agenda.
    e.g.: Exchange the sand within 5 - 7 years, do not wait for 100 years....

    I do not (always) drink the water, just swim...
    Klondyke

    Why they used fibreglass & not concrete is the weight of concrete on the 6 floor & they did not want the pool to leak.
    You are using a house hold filter, as swimming pool filter that right.
    That why you backwash a lot, as a sand filter work on surface area, as the top 15mm of the sand that get dirty.
    As to removing old sand from a filter, is use a vacuum cleaner, or by hand as your subjection, with the larger filter, you use a big vacuum cleaner or you take a shovel &
    get in side the filter
    Swimming Pool costs-filter-australia-pwt-g-8000-jpg

    You should use the right Equipment pump filter & right chemical that will look after the people swimming in the pool.
    Last edited by Ratchaburi; 28-04-2020 at 12:52 PM.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    You are using a house hold filter, as swimming pool filter that right. That why you backwash a lot, as a sand filter work on surface area, as the top 15mm of the sand that get dirty.
    As to removing old sand from a filter, is use a vacuum cleaner, or by hand as your subjection, with the larger filter, you use a big vacuum cleaner or you take a shovel &
    get in side the filter
    Actually, my filter is not for a household. I doubt that the 6-way valve of any filter can withstand a pressure of the house water system, just distributing the water to open outlets (into pool, backwash, whirlpool, drain, etc.), not against closed faucets.

    My filter can surely keep more dirt with its sand column 1 m high than the usual small "fat" filters where the sand is just 30 - 40 cm high (for keeping the dirt for one month?).
    Swimming Pool costs-17041307-jpg



    And I know from own experience what such a sand filling/exchanging, comprises, that why I have mentioned it. Thinking that not everybody has in his possession such equipment you are recommending.

    Swimming Pool costs-img_20200103-jpg


    Now I am looking in Lazada, whether I can purchase a microscope for investigating the rounding of my sand corns...

  13. #138
    Thailand Expat Airportwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    You should replace the sand in the filter 5-7 years, as the sand needs to be sharp, not have rounded corners.
    Just stick a hose into the sand, disturb all the "micro annuli" every year or two, will last forever!
    When you "sand pack" an oil well the sand lasts "forever" Changing the sand in a pool filter is just salesmanship as far as I see it.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airportwo View Post
    Just stick a hose into the sand, disturb all the "micro annuli" every year or two, will last forever!
    When you "sand pack" an oil well the sand lasts "forever" Changing the sand in a pool filter is just salesmanship as far as I see it.
    APT your OK with leaving all those body fats & bacteria in side the filter for year.

    If you’ve noticed that the backwashing cycles have become shorter, then you should check to see if the sand filter is dirty or greasy. If the filter is dirty or greasy, then don’t be surprised if it takes on the appearance of sandy lard. When this happens, the water doesn’t flow through the sand filter media.Instead, it’s forced to create a channel down the side of the filter and then returns back to the pool. You can purchase a sand filter cleaner that will help the situation for a bit of time, but this is only temporary. For a permanent fix, you should replace the pool filter sand.
    www.saharapoolbuilder.com › how-to-tell-if-your-sand...
    www.saharapoolbuilder.com › how-to-tell-if-your-sand...



  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    Actually, my filter is not for a household. I doubt that the 6-way valve of any filter can withstand a pressure of the house water system, just distributing the water to open outlets (into pool, backwash, whirlpool, drain, etc.), not against closed faucets.

    My filter can surely keep more dirt with its sand column 1 m high than the usual small "fat" filters where the sand is just 30 - 40 cm high (for keeping the dirt for one month?).

    And I know from own experience what such a sand filling/exchanging, comprises, that why I have mentioned it. Thinking that not everybody has in his possession such equipment you are recommending.

    Swimming Pool costs-img_20200103-jpg


    Now I am looking in Lazada, whether I can purchase a microscope for investigating the rounding of my sand corns...
    Klondyke

    Is the out side of your sand filter very fury, when working around the filter & you rub your arm against the side of it, you get itchy.
    The filter are made from fibreglass & polyester resin.
    Polyester resin slowly disappears with sun light,
    You should give your sand filter a coat of paint to protect the surface.
    Use house paint will do the job, only paint up to the edge of the black neck ring.

    Also looking at the centre stem pipe you should never have the pipe over to 1 side like that as when you go to move it back in the centre you could break a lateral of the hub. The best thing is to have the stem pipe, in the middle use a plastic bag, so sand will not go down the pipe.
    If you think this will not happen, think again it will.

  16. #141
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    ^Actually, I do not see any deterioration of the filter vessel (7,500 Baht in GH) after 15 years, still standing... (In fact, I have a cover over my Hi-Tech pit)
    Swimming Pool costs-17041305-jpg


    Swimming Pool costs-18062498-jpg

  17. #142
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    It seems my sand is dirty, I thought a good wash would do it but pool guy says it has to be replaced and expects farang to be happy paying 3k, which seems a bit dear.

    How much should it cost to change the sand (not the filter)?

  18. #143
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    That sounds very expensive

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabir View Post
    It seems my sand is dirty, I thought a good wash would do it but pool guy says it has to be replaced and expects farang to be happy paying 3k, which seems a bit dear.

    How much should it cost to change the sand (not the filter)?
    From what reason it seems to you that is dirty? Just backwash it properly - with changing shortly the flow direction to "rinse" (in order to fetch up the hidden dirt) - and backwash again. Then, taking the sample of the backwash discharge and relax.

    What you will buy for 3,000 Baht?

  20. #145
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    Jabir want size of filter & band name would help.
    3000b sand & labor or just sand

  21. #146
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Small pool, about 8x4m, can't be more than a large bucket of sand, pool guy recently got away with 1,700 to repair the pump, maybe that got him thinking he's found an atm.

    Problem is I can't get under there to check, leaving it open to sincere fibs.

  22. #147
    Thailand Expat jabir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    Jabir want size of filter & band name would help.
    3000b sand & labor or just sand
    Would be sand and labour, but can't see it being a marathon effort to replace one lot of sand with another.

  23. #148
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    If you don't know the sand filter size then you will not know how much sand is required for the filter.
    You may have a filter like KlonDyke a house hold filter he is using for his pool, it able to the job that KlonDyke is happy with.
    1700b for pump repairs (new bearings, new seal)

    So the pump guy has to drives to your home remove the pump cleans all the rubish of the pump, spray all the bolds with lube, so he can now open the pump.
    The guy opens the pump on site (saving you money) put new bearings & new seal, put the pump back together, installs the pump back on your system, prime the pump turn the pump back on ALL GOOD.

    All of that for 1700b just over $50 usd


    Where did you find this pool guy is he from a local pool shop or a 1 man band

  24. #149
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    Jabir,
    you did not answer my question how did you come to the conclusion that the sand is dirty?

    Anyway, as I pointed above, it's not a small job, apart of the new sand cost. So, when the old sand will be taken out you will be "surprised" what for you have spent the money and all the hassle about. Perhaps you will be able to sell it as "second-hand"

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