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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai View Post
    JPPR2.5
    I suppose you have already p[lanted the trees to shade the pool (because they were part of the the previous fish pond project) but if not then start that first. It seems to me that the main source of heat for the pool water is the sun so shade should reduce that consdierably.
    Also i would make sure you have a good cover that can insulate the water when the pool is not in use.
    While I fully understand your reasons for deciding to have the pool partially above the ground I would have thought the more in ground it is the more likely to be cooler.
    Anyway after seeing what you have done before I am sure you will over analyse and over engineer it, so good luck.
    Actually the trees I have added are all on the other side of the house ootai. I am reluctant to plant trees by the pool due to constant leave debris that I would be fishing out of it constantly (unless palm or coconut). Pool location is love hate. You want sun but you want shade too. Striking that balance is part of the decision. In the pic I posted you can see I have 2 big Lumyai trees. I could part with one but we like them as they offer shade on the house and we love the birds that nest in them. However that side of the house is the morning sun and by noon the sun is over the house and then the shade hits that side very nicely.

    As for being above ground there are really 2 considerations for it.
    1. The proposed location is in a low area on that side of the house and during rainy season water does tend to puddle there and I do not want to bring in loads of dirt to level it off.
    2. Having it up above ground by a meter allows me to build the deck around it and hide the plumbing underneath. I am trying to avoid pouring cement slabs everywhere because it just sucks in and holds too much heat and usually cracks at some point.


    And yes I will likely over engineer it or at least put a lot of thought into it. I am in no hurry so that makes it fun. Plus its just my nature.

  2. #102
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    My 2 cents (Baht) advice:
    At the planning there are always 2 stages to be investigated:
    1. Cost of the investment - time frame: only during the construction 3 - 4 months
    2. Cost and necessary effort of the maintenance - time frame 15 - 20 - 25 years.

    1. The investment cost of a very modern and fashie pool is not really negligible. However, can be surely financed - especially when the wife is refusing to shop for another diamond ring.

    2. However, the acquisition troubles will be very soon forgotten in comparison with the maintenance cost and effort during the lifetime of the pool and of its owner either. (When the pool owner is no longer around, what will happen with the pool in case he was the only one keen on it?)

    That's why the 2nd stage is more carefully to investigate and think over giving it more weight than to the 1st stage. A more expensive pool with Hi-Tech automatic doesn't mean that the maintenance during the whole lifetime will be much easier (care of the sophisticated equipment, chemicals, repair, calibrating, exchange, etc, all by an expert company).

    A construction company to make a pool with a depth 2 and 4 m will surely be difficult to find. And if found, a ground water when digging can be found either.

    Water in 4m depth is surely much cooler than the water in the 2m depth. However, once you jump in and make few movements, within few seconds the water layers will be mixed thru and the temperature of the whole water volume will be equalized.

    The temperature difference is really remarkable in the hot season. That's why I do not run the filtration during daytime , the upper layer ca. 5cm "insulate" the lower cooler waters, it's very refreshing when swimming evenings, however, it's just the feeling during one round, afterwards it's over. However, this is critical only during the hottest months as it is now April - June, later it is not so striking.

    One most substantial aspect is to be observed: The cleaning that is mostly made by bottom vacuum sucking. When the pool is just 1.5 m deep it is easy to reach all the bottom surface with the sucking tube ca. 4m long, especially, when the pool is just 3m wide. (how to reach into 4m depth?) What for to have it wider, if it is mainly for the power swimming? We swim into the length, not into the width, don't we? Unless you would not organize pool parties for the village youngsters...

    So the smaller water volume and the smaller pool will be appreciated when maintaining the pool in the next 15 - 20 years, the age of the swimmer (and of the maintainer) will not be always the same as when the pool was very new.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klondyke View Post
    My 2 cents (Baht) advice:
    Thanks Klondyke. I very much appreciate the response. Like with any project all of what you noted has to be considered. Like with my house build here. I was not in a rush, I had to consider risk versus reward, I spent hours mulling over designs and developing my list of things I wanted or needed. I did research on how the sun crossed the property so I would position it to be comfortable (fighting through the "You can't do this or that because of buddha" stuff. . Thankfully the pool has no buddha rules...

    Last night after a long chat with a few of my buddies in the states I think they convinced me that a 2m deep pool at one end is OK. The pool size might shrink a bit in length and width but not much and that's more due to I marked out where the pool will go and considered a 2m perimeter deck I do not want to cover the area as I do plan on landscaping around it.

    As for maintenance and upkeep, Not worried. Being retired soon I always enjoy early mornings and being out and pool maintenance will be relaxing. I loved it in the states.

    To your point, The hot months I will just have to manage the water temp and I will figure out something.

    We do not have children so this pool is for us but of course one knows, "if you build a pool they will come". So I fully expect that we will have visitors which will make it fun. Currently my 2 nieces are living with us and may for the long term, I look forward to teaching them how to swim.

    As for power swimming, Yes, I will definitely drop laps in the morning and late afternoon. This is a primary reason to build it. Great exercise and a nice way to cool off.

    Anyway some more work to do before I proceed. I definitely want more quotes.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    Mendip do you have dark coloured tiles on your pool, dark colour tile heat your pool water up.
    To cool the water make a cooling tower.
    Ratchaburi, our pool is a pale blue vinyl covering over a reinforced concrete framework. The pool was built by Desjoyaux and uses a different concept for pumping/filtering that involves virtually no plumbing.

    The cooling tower looks good, but space would be a problem for us.

    I am more concerned about heating the water by 4 or 5 degrees in the winter months but I think some kind of solar system would be quite straightforward to rig up, it's just getting round to it.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    Actually the trees I have added are all on the other side of the house ootai. I am reluctant to plant trees by the pool due to constant leave debris that I would be fishing out of it constantly (unless palm or coconut). Pool location is love hate. You want sun but you want shade too. Striking that balance is part of the decision. In the pic I posted you can see I have 2 big Lumyai trees. I could part with one but we like them as they offer shade on the house and we love the birds that nest in them. However that side of the house is the morning sun and by noon the sun is over the house and then the shade hits that side very nicely.
    We planted palm type trees around our pool for precisely that reason... good shade but not with an endless supply of small leaves entering the pool. They still find their way in from elsewhere in the garden, of course.

    Most of the trees are green gum nut and red gum nut, which seemed pretty perfect until they started fruiting after a few years. Now we have to cut down the developing fruit clusters before the young nuts start dropping and of course, end up in the pool.


  6. #106
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    The swimming pool pump can heat up the pool water.
    As your filter get dirty the water flowrate slows down & the pump starts to cause friction, heating up the water passing through the filter.
    Meddip your have a filter box with pump filter inside of a box, do you run the pump 24/7

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    We planted palm type trees around our pool for precisely that reason... good shade but not with an endless supply of small leaves entering the pool. They still find their way in from elsewhere in the garden, of course.

    Most of the trees are green gum nut and red gum nut, which seemed pretty perfect until they started fruiting after a few years. Now we have to cut down the developing fruit clusters before the young nuts start dropping and of course, end up in the pool.
    We have a bunch of those style palm trees along the side of our house. They do grow well and as you pictured grow fruit clusters from time to time. I pretty much have the landscape idea in mind. Tropical theme will be the main focus.

    Good fun project in front of me. With the lock down in place and me working from home 100% of the time I have ample time to research info. My wife is totally engaged in chasing info as well. My wife really likes the idea of the simulated wood decking idea.



    This style is quite nice. There is a style with holes running the length of each piece to help cool it down as well.



    Deck style like this.

    I appreciate all the pool owners feedback here.

  8. #108
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    There is a house building contractor round here that used simulated wood similar to that for a small footbridge along the side of a lake. Within a year almost all the planks had broken at their mid span point (midway between the underlying supports). I guess that the quality varies, but seeing that has put me off using them. However their strength would also be largely dependent on the density of spacing of the underlying supports.

    I also think they would get very hot to walk on in bare feet...

    I think I mentioned before, I can't recommend enough the sand coloured pea gravel concrete finish to surround a pool. It gives firm grip whether dry or wet and looks good in my opinion, however I can see it may not be consistent with your plan of a raised deck.

  9. #109
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    Beside the cost and the factor of keeping it in such conditions over the lifetime of the pool (and of the operator's either) there are few major aspects to consider:
    - the foundation to be termites-free
    - the space under the deck to be snakes-free
    - when seeing teak structures/cladding around, how it looks like after few months, years

    In addition to my previous 2 Bahts:
    To consider the outlook from the pool that is not levelled with the garden terrain but risen by 1 m: some kind of claustrophobia at the swimmer could be developed when not seeing the landscape around, just the pool sides. (That's beside the hassle to have to step up by staircase upwards - bandai - and afterwards downwards by another bandai.)

    And that beside the aspect that the water surface - mostly very attractive and impressive - will not be seen neither by the family members nor by the neighbours (very important), unless they step up into the second floor for the scenic view.

    BTW, the picture with teak deck shows a pool with a skimmer system, as opposed to a OverFlow system - an "infinitive" pool - having so many advantages for the maintenance and swimming well-feeling either.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    Within a year almost all the planks had broken
    Can be seen at many swimming pool at hotels e.g. around Pattaya...

  11. #111
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    Yeah Quality will be key. I have seen some at a few resorts for stairs and they are really nice and to your point Mendip how you support them would be key and of course how thick. Research is required for sure.

    I love the pea gravel, as we chatted, I have it on my stairs to the house an really like it. My raised deck does limit my options unless I wanted to build a deck like my 2nd floor of my house was built where they bring in pre fab'd cement planks and lay them on supports. That could be an option.

  12. #112
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    Yeah, it's all about the quality, and thickness. The contractor I mentioned isn't renowned for quality, to be honest.

    Just took a pic of our pool surround, fyi...


  13. #113
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    ^ Yeah that's the pea gravel style we have on the stairs, It power washes well too. Very durable but ours is not out in the elements like yours Mendip but it looks good.

    Just mentioned to my wife about the cement planks for a deck then the pea gravel covering and she looked at me with that "wife" look. Not that its a bad idea but just more for her to look for.

    The plus side to this my wife is happily busy looking. She really get into projects like this and is a GREAT negotiator on prices.

  14. #114
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    ^ Strange you mention power washing...

    We have two areas of pea gravel finish around our property, from two phases of building by two different contractors. Around the pool it power washed no problem and I blast it after every wet season to get rid of the black algae. In the other area, if I power wash it the gravel gets blasted away and small chunks of concrete will follow.As with everything else, it's all about quality and getting the right builder.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    The swimming pool pump can heat up the pool water.
    As your filter get dirty the water flowrate slows down & the pump starts to cause friction, heating up the water passing through the filter.
    Meddip your have a filter box with pump filter inside of a box, do you run the pump 24/7
    We used to run the pump/filter for around 8 hours a day, split into two sessions using a timer. Ants have destroyed the timer mechanism (yet another job on my list), and for now I manually turn on the pump around 8am in the morning and turn it off again (if I remember) around 6pm. I think it's just the intense heat this time of year, and having the pool surrounded by concrete, that is the cause of our warm pool water.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    We used to run the pump/filter for around 8 hours a day, split into two sessions using a timer. Ants have destroyed the timer mechanism (yet another job on my list), and for now I manually turn on the pump around 8am in the morning and turn it off again (if I remember) around 6pm. I think it's just the intense heat this time of year, and having the pool surrounded by concrete, that is the cause of our warm pool water.
    A easy way to cool the swimming pool is cover with shade cloth.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    As with everything else, it's all about quality and getting the right builder.
    ^ Man isn't that the truth. And once you find a business or guy you stick with them even if they raise their prices a bit. Its money well spent in the long run. We have 2 builders that we pay extra for them to come and will wait until they are available.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchaburi View Post
    A easy way to cool the swimming pool is cover with shade cloth.
    In my first few years (10 - 15 years ago) I had erected blue or green slam above the pool, always for the hot months April - June. It hadn't reduced much the water temperature, just having a shade feeling.

    Not wanting to have any strong structure, just pulled steel wires, prone to the storms that come in these months very strongly, later gave up the hassle.

    Swimming Pool costs-23-06-2007-11-19-10004-a

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    My wife really likes the idea of the simulated wood decking idea.


    Building decks with simulated wood the studs should be no farther apart than 12 inches or 1 foot. I built a 700 sqf deck in the US on a southern exposure. Hot decking is not a problem, the cost of the simulated wood is more expensive than wood and it takes a lot more time to construct than a wood deck. Advantages: only maintenance periodic washing, no dry rot, no termite problem, no sanding, no annual staining and no annual waterproofing sealer.

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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mendip View Post
    I think it's just the intense heat this time of year, and having the pool surrounded by concrete, that is the cause of our warm pool water.
    I agree Mendip. Cement is a huge heat sink and like water it holds the energy a long time and if the temperature doesn't drop a lot at night well you know.... Everything gets hot and stays hot.

    I kept this in mind when I built our house. There had to be a grass gap between the house and any cement. Its amazing how much cooler the house remains when its not just cemented over. Took me forever initially to explain that to my wife and the general contractor. The belief here is cement everything.

    Also along those lines, Cementing over everything allows ants to make colonies underneath. Very hard to eradicate them once a big colony has taken up home.

  22. #122
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    My pool 12x3m 15 years ago had come to some 150 kB, I think I had listed the break down here once.

    Actually, in Thailand it's easy to made (as I mentioned in my thread), when looking after the works and buying all necessary material. Cost of excavation (half day 5,000 Baht) by the backhoe from nearby and cost of the chosen material (blocks, cement, sand, tiles) is easily to calculate, then to add the workmanship of village brick-layers, (3 - 4 people chaang pun). For them it is more easier job than a kitchen.

    Also here in Thailand there is quite an impressive choice of ceramic cladding. If I made it again I would use the large granite-like tiles (60x60cm or larger), that are possible to be laid with a zero gap as I see e.g. at new clinics. Although the small mosaic tiles - as we see mostly at some pools - look quite impressive, I know a number of such pools having to re-tile within 7 - 10 years. The many km of the gaps are never properly grouted - that's always the last stage when the workers are hurrying to get paid. And even if it is well made, after years the grouting is slowly eaten away by the chlorinated water especially when successfully lowering the pH (as it is often recommended). And those gaps are the best spots for algaes and dirt silt.

    The piping work can be made by the village plumber (chaang nam papaa), if not by yourself. The pumping/filtering equipment is also here available in many qualities and prices.

    Roughly, if I built a pool again in these days in the similar way as I had described, it would not come much over 200 kB, depends on the chosen cladding and the works around. Finishing within 6 - 8 weeks.

  23. #123
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    All this talk about dogs in pools reminded me that Yogi, our latest acquisition, was due a refresher.



    He first goes straight to the nearest side, and then follows it around (with a few nudges from me) to the steps.


  24. #124
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    @ Klondyke...A 200k bht pool sounds ideal. However I simply do not see how that is achievable. Coupled with that I do not have the patience to chase labor and then stand over them to make certain its completed with reasonable quality.

    Actually the quotes to dig the hole out is the cheap part and done in a day with backhoe and dump (8k bht lowest) It's the tile itself, set up, cement pool and finishing labor, tile work and pool pump, filtering system, electrical pull in. Also we will have to have a pump shack area whether above or below ground.

    I need a beer or 4......
    Last edited by Stumpy; 23-04-2020 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Thought it was Mendip, Was Koondyke

  25. #125
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    Well my wife's cousin drove down today from CM to hang out and work on a sketch and measurement of the pool. Was fruitful. Her husband is an architect so he will draft up a design and she will set up the contractors for the pool.



    We decided after a long discussion that the Lumyai trees have to go. I am ok with it as they have only produced fruit 2 times in 6 years.

    The pool shallow end (1.5 m) will be at the far end, the deep end will be 2.5m. The deep end will have the "infinity" style. There will be a wall built on the left that have a few ports that will run water out. The shallow end area will have the larger deck and the wet bar.

    She said she will get the builders to keep it under 1m baht for everything. Apparently she has good connections. We will see. Timing to start will be determined after I get the final quote.

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