I need water storage and pressurisation - any chance of a Dummies guide?

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 02:55 PM

The general wisdom seems to be that selling a house right now is probably not the best bet so I'm steeling myself for the fun and games of improving and extending.

Stage one is in hand - roof vent to be installed tomorrow to reduce the feeling of living in an oven during the hot season! Okay, so at B3,000 supplied and installed it's not a major piece of development work but it is a step in the right direction. Further improvements to be made in ventilation and insulation at a later date.

Stage two is going to be to sort the water out. On the assumption that I am clueless and I must be because having spent quite some time reading through discussions on the topic I still have very little idea about where to start!

Our water supply is public water, not Chiang Mai city water but the local village source, and it comes out of the tap at great pressure . . . . during the middle of the day and the middle of the night when nobody else nearby is at home. In the morning and evening when a good supply is needed, the often resulting dribble is frustrating. The water main comes from the soi up the driveway via five outside taps and then supplies two bathrooms, both with electric showers, and a kitchen.

So I'm trying to come up with an idea of my options and the costs involved.

The options seem to be:

- Storage tank on a tower. (Does the water get hot up there (cold showers are welcome in the hot season)? Where is a pump necessary? To supply the tank? After the tank, to supply the house? How noisy is a pump if someone gets up in the night for a pee? Gravity feed to the house, what height is required for suitable pressure?)

- Ground level storage tank. (I guess no pump would be required to fill the tank but one would be needed to give a decent pressure to the house?)

- Drill a well or borehole. (There is quite a bit of appeal in this option - independence, self-sufficiency and all that but how can I be sure that there's water down there at a sensible depth and will my Black & Decker do the job?)

Any words of warning, wisdom or budget nightmares to share from the TeakDoor font of knowledge?

JxP

**Dalton** · 14-02-2008, 03:15 PM

I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.

**smeden** · 14-02-2008, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dalton

I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.

hello i agree with dalton saw the price of the pump in another forum i think it is 2500 to 3000 bth if u have tank u can use your roof to colect water and save a bit on your waterbill plus saving on the cumunitys water reserves

**Whiteshiva** · 14-02-2008, 04:56 PM

You could also consider a buried tank - takes less space and keeps a constant water temperature....

**Thetyim** · 14-02-2008, 05:18 PM

Yep, I'm with Dalton also.
A 2 cu metre stainless tank would be a nice size.
Tank about 7000 Baht ? Pump about 4000 baht

**dirtydog** · 14-02-2008, 05:49 PM

Stainless tank and an auto pump, got to be the way to go

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dalton

I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.

Thanks Dalton. At the risk of reinforcing my cluelessness . . .

A level-switch being a float lever wotsit that closes the valve when it rises up to the full level - yes?

Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.

3/4" being the diameter of pipe supplying the house??

JxP

**crabfat** · 14-02-2008, 06:15 PM

It seems from your post that you have water all year around and you don't have many people living there.
As has been said what you could you is buy a stainless steel tank of about 500 or 1,000 litres with an autoshut off valve followed by a well pump of around 150 to 250 watts electric motor.
The only problem with a stainless steel tank is that in the hot weather you have warm water most of the time which saves on you electricity bills but it is cold in winter.
You don't say if you're place is a one level or more.
The only difference that will make is that you may need a slightly bigger pump.
Our 3,000 litre stainless steel tank cost about 13,000 baht but we only use that for rainwater for drinking.

**Thetyim** · 14-02-2008, 06:17 PM

Q1 Yes

Q2 Should there be? yes but I never seen one fitted in Thailand

Q3 Yes

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by smeden

Originally Posted by Dalton

I would get a tank in pvc or stainless, put it on the ground-level install a level-switch so the city water shuts off when the tank is full. After the tank you install a small automatic pump 3/4" should be enough for your need.

hello i agree with dalton saw the price of the pump in another forum i think it is 2500 to 3000 bth if u have tank u can use your roof to colect water and save a bit on your waterbill plus saving on the cumunitys water reserves

Thanks to you too smeden.

I've got a note scribbled down somewhere that says "Grundfos water cooled 65psi pump B12,000", no idea where the info came from or why I wrote it down but it looks like it has not relevance to this discussion!

I like the idea of collecting rainwater for use, what about filtering it?

Whilst we're in an eco-friendly frame of mind, I'm surprised that nobody seems to like the idea of saving electricity by using gravity from a water tower - what's the thinking there?

JxP

**lom** · 14-02-2008, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.

An electric float switch in the tank cutting power when the water level is very low.

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteshiva

You could also consider a buried tank - takes less space and keeps a constant water temperature....

I do quite like that idea - I'm not sure if my perverse desire for cold water in the hot season balances off with the (I assume) additional cost of burying a tank and of course the extra electricity used when hot water is wanted.

More investigation required . . .

JxP

**dirtydog** · 14-02-2008, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Whilst we're in an eco-friendly frame of mind, I'm surprised that nobody seems to like the idea of saving electricity by using gravity from a water tower - what's the thinking there?

Will you have enough mains pressure to get it up there?
You need a 2 meter drop to get enough pressure to power up a shower heater.

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Yep, I'm with Dalton also.
A 2 cu metre stainless tank would be a nice size.
Tank about 7000 Baht ? Pump about 4000 baht

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Stainless tank and an auto pump, got to be the way to go

This looks to be the popular option, thanks guys.

JxP

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by crabfat

It seems from your post that you have water all year around and you don't have many people living there.
As has been said what you could you is buy a stainless steel tank of about 500 or 1,000 litres with an autoshut off valve followed by a well pump of around 150 to 250 watts electric motor.
The only problem with a stainless steel tank is that in the hot weather you have warm water most of the time which saves on you electricity bills but it is cold in winter.
You don't say if you're place is a one level or more.
The only difference that will make is that you may need a slightly bigger pump.
Our 3,000 litre stainless steel tank cost about 13,000 baht but we only use that for rainwater for drinking.

Hi crabfat and thanks for your input.

We do have water all year long but the pressure can go down to a gnat's dribble and it is sometimes cut off for 24 hours for maintenance, irritating but not life threatening, it will be good not to be caught out with a trickling cold shower again!

There are two adults and four children in this equation, so lots of laundry and a high chance of someone ruining a lovely shower by flushing the loo in the other bathroom!

The house is on one level.

All in all you seem to be another recommendation for a stainless steel tank and pump combo - what a helpful bunch around here.

JxP

**blackgang** · 14-02-2008, 06:33 PM

You can do that if you want to, You would have to build a concrete or steel framework at least 15 feet higher than your shower/toilet to have any water at all and then put your say 1000 liter plastic or stainless tank on top of that structure, with the float valve installed, run your pipe from the water source up to the top of that tank and a pipe from the bottom of the tank to your water pipes going inside and thats all there is to it, but I would also add a pump to the system to where your pipe comes inside and the pressure would be a lot better as you only have a head pressure of about 0.433 pounds per foot of elevation.

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Thetyim

Q1 Yes

Q2 Should there be? yes but I never seen one fitted in Thailand

Q3 Yes

no surprise there! Sounds like an optional extra worth having though.

JxP

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by lom

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.

An electric float switch in the tank cutting power when the water level is very low.

Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!

JxP

**dirtydog** · 14-02-2008, 06:38 PM

I am really against plastic and pvc water tanks, the sun in Thailand is too strong and seems to damage them real quickly, quite a few buildings we have been involved with the pvc water tanks last like just over 2 years, yep, no gaurantee then

**blackgang** · 14-02-2008, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!

No that does not mean that one is available, might have to build it yourself.

**dirtydog** · 14-02-2008, 06:41 PM

They cost about 250baht, most pumps nowadays have an auto turn off when they get hot, ie they are pumping air and not water, ITC is a great brand, seem to last forever, after about 6 years just need to replace the resevoir and they sell stainless steel ones.

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Originally Posted by lom

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Should there be some sort of switching mechanism included to protect against the unlikely event of any empty water tank? I'm assuming no water in the tank combined with someone turning on a tap would result in a dead pump.

An electric float switch in the tank cutting power when the water level is very low.

Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!

JxP

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Whilst we're in an eco-friendly frame of mind, I'm surprised that nobody seems to like the idea of saving electricity by using gravity from a water tower - what's the thinking there?

Will you have enough mains pressure to get it up there?
You need a 2 meter drop to get enough pressure to power up a shower heater.

Originally Posted by blackgang

You can do that if you want to, You would have to build a concrete or steel framework at least 15 feet higher than your shower/toilet to have any water at all and then put your say 1000 liter plastic or stainless tank on top of that structure, with the float valve installed, run your pipe from the water source up to the top of that tank and a pipe from the bottom of the tank to your water pipes going inside and thats all there is to it, but I would also add a pump to the system to where your pipe comes inside and the pressure would be a lot better as you only have a head pressure of about 1 1/2 pounds per foot of elevation.

If I'm going to have to pump it up to the tank and then pump it again into the house to get a decent pressure it doesn't really seem worthwhile.

I think I was hoping that the tank would fill from the mains when the pressure is good during the daytime and that I could get the tank high enough to maintain a decent gravity fed pressure. Is there a formula for working out required pressure and what height and volume of water is needed to achieve it?

JxP

**Thetyim** · 14-02-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

How noisy is a pump if someone gets up in the night for a pee?

Position the pump outside the house and cover it from rain and sun.
Mount it on some rubber and you won't even notice the noise.

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by dirtydog

I am really against plastic and pvc water tanks, the sun in Thailand is too strong and seems to damage them real quickly, quite a few buildings we have been involved with the pvc water tanks last like just over 2 years, yep, no gaurantee then

No arguments with that, the sun is not going to get any weaker! Kind of adds to the plus points for an underground tank . . . . might be worth getting a quote for digging that hole.

JxP

**JuniorExPat** · 14-02-2008, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by blackgang

Originally Posted by JuniorExPat

Sounds like you know that they exist here - that gives me hope, thanks!

No that does not mean that one is available, might have to build it yourself.

And what gives you the impression that I am that capable?!

JxP

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