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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    Leo #1 wasn't much help so I had to nip down to the shop to get a second and third opinion.

    Were you blessed with any wisdom gained from your three friends?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Were you blessed with any wisdom gained from your three friends?
    Not really, but I can always get together with them again Cannot rush into these things you know. Gotta do it the Thai way ...form a committee, me , Leo #1,2 & 3, and have regular meetings.

  3. #78
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    ^^^^ I think those foldable ones are great if the space is small. If the space is large (like the one from @peciacake, then a built-in one makes sense).

    If you don't want to buy from a hardware store or online, you can prolly have one made for you. If you have a good welder, you/ he can prolly make one from aluminum or tubular steel.

    Here in PH, many builders use "tubulars" but I don't really know if they're made of iron or steel. They're used for fences, gates, clothes hanging rods, etc. They come in different sizes too: 1x1 inch, 2x1, 2x2, 2x4, etc.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    Gotta do it the Thai way ...form a committee, me , Leo #1,2 & 3, and have regular meetings.
    as long as you don't invite that foreigner Mont Clare, you know what they say "Wine and Beer you'll feel......."

  5. #80
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    How much was the architect fee?

  6. #81
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    ^ 30,000 baht for the architect's drawings and the engineering certificate. Don't know who got how much, but it was money for almost nothing for the architect as we did all the creative work, the engineer did have to do some work for his share of the fees. As i said earlier we were going to save money and get a guy at the Or Bor Tor office to do it all but he moved on to greener pastures, so we had no choice but pay up. You win some, you lose some ...the electrical connection cost us a LOT less than the first quotes which were up to 6 figures.

    If you have a design of your own, one which isn't too unusual, it would be worth going to your local Or Bor Tor office and asking if they have anybody licensed to draw up the CAD plans. Not everywhere does, but somebody might save themselves several thousand baht.
    Last edited by mikenot; 24-02-2024 at 10:48 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by malmomike77 View Post
    as long as you don't invite that foreigner Mont Clare, you know what they say "Wine and Beer you'll feel......."
    no South Africans invited, they will just want to talk about cricket and rugby ...2 sports that bore me to tears, almost as bad as synchronised drowning

  8. #83
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    Hi Mike, one of the items that wasn't properly planned for our build was guttering and down pipes. Due to other priorities (code for trying to teach SWMBO how to budget) I completely dropped the ball when it came to proper planning for guttering, down pipes and rain water harvesting. Ended up with a less than satisfactory outcome as a result.
    If I may make a suggestion - start installation as soon as the roof is on and the soffits in, particularly the covered area / breeze way. The earlier it's done the better - the whole site will benefit when the rainy season starts.

    The other point to consider is Thai's don't do guttering as well as what you'd expect given the climate. Tropical down pours are not well catered for from my observations. The choices for guttering are a bit on the skinny side as a result.
    SGC make some decent UPVC stuff but the sizes are on the small side and would overflow pretty quickly. Bluescope do some good gal / zincalume stuff and it will last and last. But if the local Bluescope office isn't up to speed with it the quoting process can be pretty tedious.

    Rainwater harvesting is definitely something I'd encourage you to consider, particularly given you've a good design, ideal for routing the down pipes into a couple of decent tanks. The way I see it water security is becoming an increasingly significant problem around Thailand - the more you can do to increase storage the better I reckon.

    Keep the posts up mate - always look forward to seeing how it's progressing.

    Cheers

  9. #84
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    ^ You are not the only one to drop the ball re guttering ! I just completely forgot about it, it's something you just assume is included "back home" but not here, as I found out when asking the builder how the drainage was going to work. So I will have to figure something out. I had something in mind for rainwater tanks on the distant horizon for the outbuilding roof, out of sight around the back. Not so easy for the main roof, don't think there is going to be any way of discreetly having a tank there unless i go for an expensive underground one (and pump).
    Anybody have any experience with "rain chains" in a Thai wet season downpour ?
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-rain-chain-jpg


    I might just have to let most of the water run off in to a large french drain gutter at the back of the house, then into the side track and down into the rice paddies. The runoff from the side verandah can be piped into the main drain.

    The welder and his offsider were back on site this morning (after 5 days away) doing some more of the plates on top of the columns. They are in no hurry...do two columns and back into their little sala for 30 minutes, repeat. Cannot see them finishing today, hope they don't have another 5 day rest !

    Evening update: Khun Ae called us out to the site around 5:15, I'm thinking "oh,oh, what's up now". The welders hadn't done any more of the load plates as they had run into a problem, the design height for the verandah columns as per the plan they were working on was not the same as the actual heights so they called out the boss. It turned out that the left and right elevations for the front verandah were not the same ! The plan they were working off had a steeper angle for the roof and lower post height with no siding on the end, so the boss asked us which we preferred. The other view, with a shallower angled roof and siding was better luckily, so they didn't have to redo more columns. How did an architect make such an elementary mistake ? If it would do any good I would ask for at least a partial refund, as this wasn't the first error but I know that I'm dreaming there. Khun Ae could tell that I wasn't happy, he was a bit embarrassed I think as he suggested this guy. Somehow I think he won't be doing that again !
    On a more positive note, at least the welders are switched on and seem to know what they are doing, even if they are slow doing it, so hopefully there will be no problems with their work.
    Last edited by mikenot; 26-02-2024 at 07:20 PM.

  10. #85
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    Roof insulation
    does anybody have reliable data about the R values of metal roof with PU foam attached ? after solving the minor drama of the verandah roof we got to talking about the roof and insulation. K. Ae says that PU foam attached to the roof is much better than fibreglass batts. I've found American data that says spray-on foam is much higher R-value than fibreglass batts, but would that apply to the stuff pre-fixed to roofs here ?

    Attachment 112536
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-rvalues-jpg

    On the other hand, SCG claim their 6 inch glass batts have a R-value of 38, or over 6 per inch, so somebody is wrong. We have a choice of 1 inch (25mm) or 2 inch PU foam (at an added cost), or nothing and use batts. I'm tempted to go for the 2 inch PU, we can always add batts later.
    Noise reduction during pouring rain is as important a consideration as heat reduction would be. Also, we are planning on a light grey roof which should help in heat reduction....the wife drew the line at having a white roof.
    Last edited by mikenot; 26-02-2024 at 10:29 PM.

  11. #86
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    Please keep it coming, Mike!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    On the other hand, SCG claim their 6 inch glass batts have a R-value of 38, or over 6 per inch, so somebody is wrong. We have a choice of 1 inch (25mm) or 2 inch PU foam (at an added cost), or nothing and use batts. I'm tempted to go for the 2 inch PU, we can always add batts later.
    Noise reduction during pouring rain is as important a consideration as heat reduction would be. Also, we are planning on a light grey roof which should help in heat reduction...
    We went with white BlueScope Zacs pre-fitted with 25 mm PU foam for the roof, with the intention of monitoring the room temperature inside so we can decide whether to fit R38 foil backed fibreglass insulation at a later date. As it stands there is a strong likelihood we will insulate the ceiling - the room temperature is regularly 27 degrees by 2:00pm. The R-value of the PU foam on its own isn't high enough to mitigate heat transfer. From memory it was significantly lower than R38 fibreglass insulation.

    We asked our builder to install the suspended ceiling so it would be easy to lay the rolls of insulation between the joists. Something must have got lost in translation as it is going to be a nightmare. We also added a 90 cm manhole in the ceiling so it is easy to get the rolls into the roof cavity, plus put a fluro tube up there to see what I'm doing.

    Noise transfer with PU foam backed steel isn't a problem - noise from heavy rain doesn't intrude. Nor does the BlueScope roof suffer from the constant tick, tick, tick from expansion and contraction that other brands / manufacturers suffer from.

  13. #88
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    ^ Be inyeresting to see now long before / if the blue scope delaminates?

  14. #89
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    You know that old game of spot the difference ? try this one, ignoring the doors and windows .
    as usual, answers below.
    Two views of the same building, left and right elevations (plan B and D respectively), so they should be mirror image of the other with regard to dimensions:
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7638-jpg
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7639-jpg


    The differences highlighted :
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7638-b-jpg

    #1 There is siding under the front verandah roof on the left view, missing on the right.
    #2 The verandah roof on left elevation starts below the bottom of the siding, halfway up it on the right.
    #3 On the right elevation the lowest end of the roof is higher than shown at the other/left end.
    #4 the very front column on the left elevation is lower than other columns, but same height on the right elevation which is what it's supposed to be (that's the one the welders picked up).

    Given the defamation laws here, and how touchy Thai businesses can be about bad reviews, I won't name this so-called architect but anywhere else but here and I would be demanding a refund. NOT HAPPY !!!

    On a more positive note, the roof frame is starting to take shape slowly. As at lunchtime today :
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7635-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7638-b-jpg  
    Last edited by mikenot; 28-02-2024 at 09:45 PM.

  15. #90
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    ^ coming on. I note the welds joining the lengths, i'd check them. Thais don't generally grind back for a clean weld and the joins can be awful. For me, i'd also get them to plate over the welds

    oh and really check all the welds joining to the column rebar - apolgies if i'm teaching grandma to suck eggs but this is your roof and your security

  16. #91
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    ^ The welder seems to be thorough at his job. He took a while to do the load bearing plates on the rebar, constantly checking and double checking levels. the wife commented to the builder about how long that job was taking, he replied that the welder was slow but very good at his job. OK, he would say that but I think he is right in this case.

    Not much progress from lunchtime, but bright and shiny in the evening sun :
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7645-jpg

    He took ages getting this perfect before tack welding it in place
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7646-jpg

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    The welder seems to be thorough at his job
    Our welding started off a bit hit and miss - had to show them how to use a slag hammer and a wire brush to de-slag the welds.
    Once they got the hang of using them the welding was impressive, with good penetration and continuous seams, unlike the cocky shit I see that passes for a lot of Thai welding.
    What was most pleasing was seeing the Welders grinding out and re-welding poor welded sections they considered not up to scratch.
    Also used plenty of cold gal to finish the job.

  18. #93
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    OK, perhaps I was a bit early with my praises for the head welder. He did n't read the plans properly and welded a beam that wasn't meant to be there, and didn't have some that should have been. But he did see the first mistake himself and fixed it up, and the other was probably due to the ambiguous plans mentioned above. No big deal, they had only tack welded so far and it only took a couple of hours to fix up.
    The boss has had extra welders on site for the last few days, he wanted to get as much done as possible before the 40 degree heatwave forecast for the next 3 days here in Ubon. He even climbed up and did a bit of welding himself ! The final welds were done on the outbuilding, and started painting over the welded spots today.
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7699-jpg

    They also put up the shuttering to fill the gap between the top of the column and the load bearing plates.

    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7705-jpg

    Anyway the roof frame is just about finished, a few braces to put in, final welds to be done and then painted.
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7709-jpg

    We had a meeting with the rep from the roofing supplier the other day, and the wife changed her mind about the colour when she saw the samples in the sunlight. Our original choice of light gray was "too bright" she says, now she wants a slightly darker shade. I told her brighter = more reflective and cooler but the science was over her head, after all she did leave school when she was 12 back in the bad old days. Oh well, after my working life spent slaving over hot stoves in commercial kitchens, often in outback and rural Australia, the heat here doesn't worry me that much, she feels the heat more than me so "som nam na".
    As you can see in the pic above the roof panels arrived this afternoon. Those ones are just over 13m long, and I wish we had arrived a bit earlier to see them delivered on the pickup:
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7702-jpg

    .

  19. #94
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    We have a roof ! I got to the site at around 9.30 and saw this :
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7724-jpg

    The team had obviously done this plenty of times and had the routine down pat, and the main roof was soon up and screwed down. Then they split into 3 teams and did the two verandah roofs and the outbuilding at the same time, so the whole roof was done by early afternoon. Much quicker than tiles !
    We perhaps made a mistake in buying the guys a couple of bottles of lao kha as the next day K.Ae rang to apologize that nobody would be working on site, as the welders were "sick". I found 5 empty bottles of rotgut, so they must have bought a few more too !
    While the site was empty I climbed up their scaffolding to have a look at the roof fixings, everything seems tightly screwed down. The top surface of the roof was too hot to touch but the foil on the underside of the PU foam was barely warm, just ambient temperature, so the PU foam must be doing it's job in preventing downward heat transfer.
    Today (Saturday) there were a couple of guys painting the welds, and touching up some of the tack welds. I would have thought it easier to do that before the roof went on, as there is not much room under the roof in some places ! But it seems the guys think it is easier to crawl along the beams rather than climb up and down the scaffolding.




    https://www.facebook.com/10000190210...84570919753820
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7733-jpg  

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    well, 10 days later and it's been a case of two steps forward, one step backwards...twice. After fitting the roof as in my last post, the soffits and cladding for the side arrived a couple of days later. I could see an instant and obvious problem...how are they going to attach the soffits , and the cladding, to the area above the side verandah roof towards the rear of the house, where the main roof slopes down. The equally obvious solution is to take that part of the verandah roof off to give themselves some working head room. So the 2 guys doing the soffits took off the roof panels, fitted the soffits, and put the roof back on again. Hang on, what about the other guys doing the cladding ? OOPS ! Take the roof off again ! One of the panels somehow got damaged during this circus performance so the boss took that back today, possibly hoping to get a partial refund for the undamaged section?
    Even without making it hard for themselves this would have been a slow and tedious few days, as many of the soffit and cladding pieces have to be measured and cut to fit.

    the verandah roof off for the second time:
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7795-jpg

    We also had to remind the guys to paint the welds with cold-gal BEFORE they put soffits and cladding over them, it's no good just painting one side of the weld.

    The first load of AAC blocks turned up last week, 1600 of them, so I was hoping that the wall crew might be starting work this week. No such luck.
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7766-jpg


    Well, not much to report for a 10 day update but that's the way things go, so that's all folks.
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-thats_all_folks-jpg
    Last edited by mikenot; 19-03-2024 at 09:12 PM.

  21. #96
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    Thanks for the update, it looks like it's going well.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    it looks like it's going well.


    Good that you are around, Mike

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    10 days later and it's been a case of two steps forward, one step backwards...twice.
    Standby for many more but in time it will get completed. Just a matter of how much time.

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    "We also had to remind the guys to paint the welds with cold-gal BEFORE they put soffits and cladding over them, it's no good just painting one side of the weld."

    The benefit of being on site Mike.

    Progressing well mate. Keep the updates coming

  25. #100
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    Another brick in the wall....

    "The first load of AAC blocks turned up last week, 1600 of them, so I was hoping that the wall crew might be starting work this week. No such luck"


    A pleasant surprise this morning, the wall crew had turned up in force.
    9;30a.m. this morning :
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-20240321_100745-jpg

    After the glacial pace of progress lately today saw a major acceleration, with 4 sections of wall going up at a time, one woman measuring and cutting the odd sized pieces needed, another guy mixing buckets of AAC mortar and a young kid carrying blocks from the pallets to the work areas.
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-screenshot-2024-03-21-200754-jpg


    Of course, things didn't go completely right after the boss went to visit another job I was having a well deserved rest from my landscaping work down the bottom of the garden when I noticed that work had started on the back wall of the kitchen, and that apparently a doorway was optional as they had laid blocks all the way across where there was supposed to be a door. I got up to fix things just as one of the other guys came over to correct the error. Ah good, no need to be the meddling customer. But then they put the doorway right up against the post, not 60cm across as per the plan, so I did have to get up after all. Showing them the plans just got blank looks so I measured 60cm from the post and scratched marks on the floor..."pradoo tii nii" (door here).
    Luckily K. Ae came back then and things were sorted, we also went through the other door locations.
    When we came back later in the afternoon I noticed something else I wasn't completely happy about.
    One wall of the main bedroom is supposed to join the side wall as highlighted in yellow:
    A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-bedroomwall-jpg


    The side wall has already been built :A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-img_7833-jpg I'm told, translated through my wife, that they will drill holes in this exterior wall for rebar attached to the interior wall, personally I would have interlocked the blocks of both walls for added strength. I would certainly like the bit circled in red done that way so yet another 3 way talk between me, the wife, and the builder is coming. i did try with Google translate but that don't work too well on a building site!
    In other news, the roofing crew have only a few bits of cladding and fascia to do and they are finished at long last.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A "not so Grand Design" in Ubon Ratchathani-20240321_161756-jpg  

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