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  1. #1
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    What size beam and pillars?

    Hi,

    I'm trying to find out what size load bearing steel beam, and supporting pillars, should be used when building a 8x8m open living room.
    The house is a one storey "modern" (shed roof) house with 20x20cm pillars and 20x20x60 Q-Con blocks for outer walls, and 7.5cm Q-con for inner walls.

    Anyone here who knows?

    Cheers,
    Val

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    Quote Originally Posted by valerian View Post
    Hi,

    I'm trying to find out what size load bearing steel beam, and supporting pillars, should be used when building a 8x8m open living room.
    The house is a one storey "modern" (shed roof) house with 20x20cm pillars and 20x20x60 Q-Con blocks for outer walls, and 7.5cm Q-con for inner walls.

    Anyone here who knows?

    Cheers,
    Val
    Valerian
    Its not so much the span that determines the beam size/strength, its that plus the load so what you use for the roof is important. You say "shed roof" so I assume you will be using some form of colourbond steel roofing.
    Make sure if you are building it here in Thailand that the missus approves, mine reckons steel roofing is ugly and noisy.

    If you can find an Architect or Structural Engineer anywhere near you they would most likely have a computer program that they could put all the data into and then give you the precise details of the beams required for either a steel or cement tile roof.
    They would also take into account any sheetrock used for the ceiling plus after the wet season we have had recently any rain loading. You also need to work out what pitch angle you want. I used 20 degrees on my shed roof and it is fine but the Thai's of old used very steep roof pitches as they were roofing with grass and wanted the water to run off quickly.

    I will take a few pictures of my "beams" used for my shed and patio roofs and post them here which may help.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerian View Post
    8x8m open living room.
    Is the plan for an unsupported 8m span?
    Around my area in Isan the local builders tend to have a 20x20 column every 4m. I didn't want any of the local dancing poles in the middle of my rooms so I only made sure the columns were buried in the walls. Local builders can build that easily. A longer, unsupported span would probably need an engineer.

  4. #4
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    valerian
    I will point out that while I am an engineer I am definitely not a structural engineer so anything I say here is not official professional advice if you want that go see others as I suggested earlier.

    I had a picture in my mind of what you wanted to create but then Shutree come along and created some confusion in my mind (which isn't difficult).

    So do you want to build something like a large verandah attached to your house which will serve as an "open living room". In my eyes "open" means not enclosed i.e. no walls.
    Or do you want 8m x 8m room under the house roof that has no support pillars within that 8m x 8m room?
    If its the latter then I can have a look at our other house which was the MIL's before she passed away recently because in there we had steel pillars spaced at 4m x 4m, which is the standard pattern here in Thailand, but we looked athe central pillar in the living area and thought that it got in the way so we took it out and created the 8m X 8m room

    On that house which created out of the house we had previously built there the roof is just colourbond steel sheeting and therefore does not place much of a load on the beams or pillars.

    Just to show a couple of examples of my open span "verandah" style roofs here a couple of pictures.

    What size beam and pillars?-20221101_084708-jpg
    This is built onto the end of my shed. The roof at this end covers an area of about 8m X 12m. The shed walls enclose an area 8m x 12m and there is a smaller side on attached "patio" area of 4m x 12m. So the total roof covers an area 12m x 20m.

    What size beam and pillars?-20221101_084811-jpg
    A closer look at the "beams" we made up from steel "pipe" and covers an area of about 9m x 9m. The distance of the "open" span is 7m.

    What size beam and pillars?-20221101_085546-jpg
    This roof is attached to the back of our house. This the southern end.

    What size beam and pillars?-20221101_085555-jpg
    This is the northern end.

    Let me know if you would like me to give you more info on the enclosed room with an open floor space which is in the house you see in the right of the picture above.
    I have also got what we call the farm house which I made up some beams/trusses which created an open 8m span so we could park the truck under the roof.
    So what you want is not difficult just different for these folks around here. By the way you never said where you are located.

  5. #5
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    Ootai is correct tube is the way

    When I used same 20 x 60 x 60 blocks by Supeblock /Hebel/ Qcon I "poured the corner column retro fit with lots of rebar and shuttering. Luckily I had a US architect ad Alaskan builder who had used the technique so able to train local builders.

    You need to decide at outset the level of load so if noisy cheaper roofing it will be lighter than the ceramic finish, which is more attractive, quieter but of course heavier.

    Another consideration if not walled or glazed on all sides, wind pressure during storms may lift tiles .

    PM if you wish to visit my location near Golden Triangle
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    When trusses are exposed in a workshop situation it might be a good idea to go one size up.
    A truss has to support its own weight plus the weight of the roof, and then thereís the skyhook factor - if someone throws a strop over a lower member and then attaches a chainblock to lift out an engine or to support a tractor being split then thatís an additional load.
    Not so much an issue in a house though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by docmartin View Post
    When trusses are exposed in a workshop situation it might be a good idea to go one size up.
    A truss has to support its own weight plus the weight of the roof, and then thereís the skyhook factor - if someone throws a strop over a lower member and then attaches a chainblock to lift out an engine or to support a tractor being split then thatís an additional load.
    Not so much an issue in a house though.
    docmartin
    That would never happen here 5555.

    Went out this morning and what did I see?
    Our "partner" is undertaking some preventative maintenance prior to the rice harvesting commencing.

    What size beam and pillars?-20221103_070250-jpg

    What size beam and pillars?-20221103_070307-jpg

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    555. And a strop on a truss should be on the top member of the truss, not the bottom.
    But that’s just falang idiocy - steel is steel.

  9. #9
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    oots ............... Interesting to look at this .

    You know Missy's place -- a bit . She wants to remove the roof in the Kitchen area and build a nice new extension . But if we're doing that I want to make that kitchen roof into a Balcony . Will that tubular steel support such an idea ?

    wasp

  10. #10
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    When we built our two story house in Mae Taeng, we went to the local arbotor township office and they connected us up with a college degreed architect. He took my plans from Home Design Studio and drafted a Thai set. I think the charge was around 2500 baht and his design was overkill in my eyes but better that way than under-designed. Could not have been happier with how the guy worked with us. Check out your local government resources.

    What size beam and pillars?-p1020335-jpg
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    oots ............... Interesting to look at this .

    You know Missy's place -- a bit . She wants to remove the roof in the Kitchen area and build a nice new extension . But if we're doing that I want to make that kitchen roof into a Balcony . Will that tubular steel support such an idea ?

    wasp
    Wasp
    I have said it many times you can make a steel "beam" to support whatever you want. In your case I would make sure the pillars you have or plan to install are strong enough.
    However having said that I don't believe you would be using heavy concrete tiles so if you used steel sheeting the roof would not weigh that much.
    You should come and visit sometime I have several examples I could show you.
    There is the shed extension which is shown above, there is the house we just recently built for the MIL who unfortunately only got to enjoy it for a short time and then there is the farmhouse plus the "patio" at the rear of our house which is shown below.

    What size beam and pillars?-20221101_085555-jpg

    What size beam and pillars?-20221101_085546-jpg

    I think that this is probably what you should do.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What size beam and pillars?-20221101_130243-jpg  

  12. #12
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    Agree with above, you do not mention the location as some places close to Myanmar border and Lanna are prone to earth tremors, I used a consulting engineer and went strong, during construction a local temple collapsed but my walls didn't, No benefit in using Superblock aka Hebel aka Qcon on open spaces nor internal walls. For same reason if you don't need to occupy immediately leave for one season for settlement before plaster and painting walls

    If large spans with sheet roofing may wish to consider micro climate as strong winds entering may lift the roof

    Thai Earthquake map

    What size beam and pillars?-thailand_bangkok_earthquake_fig2-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What size beam and pillars?-thailand_bangkok_earthquake_fig2-jpg  

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