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Thread: Solex project

  1. #51
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    So, the next step was to try to convene the family together to ask them all to apply for the land to be split up again, only differently this time. This understandably fell on deaf ears. A2 was receptive; A1 did not want to know. By this stage, A4 was getting wind of all the plans, and now A1 was feeling very guilty for having ostracised A4 from the process. A3 was also concerned about any unfair land handouts from the childless A1, which would disenfranchise her child and grandchild.

    Our next strategy was to try and work within the narrow boundaries we had been given. In other words, to disregard plots 1, 2 and 4 and concentrate solely on trying to get A1 and the FiL to split A3 up so that we could at least get our build implemented.

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    One of the FiL’s old acquaintances, Lung Dtia, who is affiliated to the OrBorTor came along to discuss the plot of land we wanted to build on with his son-in-law Manit (a lot more on them later). His team set about measuring the plot and seeing exactly what kind of area we are talking about. Up until now, I had been using the Chanote as an interesting reference, but had been using Google Maps and Google Earth to get an exact view of the land. Everything I was relaying to the family was based on what I could see from satellite images. The FiL and aunties are mostly in their 50s and 60s, and were distrustful of the information being given to them by this upstart farang. These people don’t go on Google Maps, they only concern themselves with chanote markers; i.e. what they can see in plain view. So, was what I was saying true? How did it actually look on the ground?

    The missus was pretty disappointed to hear from Lung Dtia and his team that what I was saying was indeed true. We did not have much land to play with for our project. While the team were there, A1 was called. I had explained my plan to Lung Dtia and Manit. They understood exactly what I wanted to do. Manit was youngish and able to read my map and see the overlaid plan. He got it. A1 came over and told the team words to the extent of “don’t listen to the farang; he doesn’t understand”. This was met with a heart-warming rebuttal from the team: “no, he does understand!”. At this point quite a bit of pressure was placed on A1 by my missus to grant us some of the A1’s land to make our project feasible. Faced with a bit of pressure, the A1 agreed to make our 2 ngan into 3 ngan. Lovely-jubbly. So we had land to make our project feasible. Now we could start to flesh out the house build plans more.

  2. #52
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    The next issue was going to be formally requesting for plot 3 to be split up at the land office so that we could get a parcel of land in the wife’s name. The two original holders of the plot 3 land plot were the FiL and A1. They consented to go to the land office so we could apply for a surveyor to come and mark the land out so we could get the ball rolling.

    It would have been a lot easier if we could have just had FiL and A1 grant a portion of land to the missus. However, by this stage, Dtong was also interested in what land he was going to get. To save time and money, it also made sense to get plot 3 divided up into its constituent parts all at the same time. That meant giving Dtong his land in chanote form as well. Unfortunately, relations between the FiL and the aunties towards Dtong and his wife are not great. The basic problem is that the family view Dtong’s wife as a useless layabout. She does not work and refuses to do so. She is also quite profligate with cash and spends a bit on their two boys. With the family having a Chinese work ethic, Dtong’s wife’s existence is anathema to them. And I personally have some sympathy with their concerns. Prior to meeting his wife, Dtong was quite well off. After meeting his wife and having kids, he is constantly in debt and now had to supplement his income by turning the land around his house into a junkyard for his second job as a refuse collector. You can now start to understand why A1 kicked Dtong and his wife out of the main house. This applies to our situation, because although A1 would have no problems surreptitiously granting my missus extra land to build a house on, now that the whole family is aware of land division and building plans, folk are concerned about favouritism. A1 would feel bad about granting land from plot 3 to my missus and not giving Dtong any, but she is also concerned about Dtong being forced to then subsequently sell that land to clear his debts owing to his lack of liquidity, thus splitting the family land up to outsiders. But something has to give, because we get our appointment from the land office to mark out our plot. And, at some stage during that day, the other pieces will have to be marked out.

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    The FiL, A1, the missus and I went to the land office. As the elders did not want to listen to my plans or deal with my questions about easement and how the land would be split, I eventually had to consent to provisionally split the land up into three strips running diagonally across plot 3 (see above). This would not give us enough land nor provide us with the correct shape to fulfil my objectives (I need a straight line running east–west to get the correct alignment for solar-radiation minimisation), but the FiL and A1 were continuing to ignore my pleas to have us deal with these issues. Again, my plans are all very abstract concepts to the elders. They were very confident that I should listen to the surveyor who comes along to the site, because the FiL and A1 only go off what they can see on the land. This was highly frustrating. I knew the surveyor would turn up and ask to be instructed as to how we split. The provisional split would differ massively from what I instruct him to do. This would create carnage on the day. But what was I supposed to do? They just wouldn’t listen.

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  3. #53
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    Eventually, the day comes, and I have still not resolved the issue about how not to split plot 3 into four different plots, and I anticipate the surveyors refusing to split the land up into parcels that would be unusable and unattractive. I show them my suggested breakdowns of the land. 4, not 3, plots. And the surveyor dudes are suspicious of the farang and want to speak to the land title owners to get sanction. The FiL and A1 turn up. How predictable: now, when it is almost too late, they now want to discuss the land split! The surveyors wait around their truck while there is an intra-family discussion as to how plot 3 is to be split up. The main objection is that the middle and bottom plots look awful, unattractive and nobody would want to inherit them. Well, yes; that’s why I have been calling for such a sit-down and discussion for the past two months! A1 had now been considering reneging on her previous unwillingness to yield a plot to A4 and was concerned it would be unusable. However, I had been anticipating that A1 may yield under pressure and allow for the unorthodox split if it allows for our build to go ahead. Also, it makes no sense to have that triangle at the bottom just left there isolated. Eventually, A1 grants this nearly 1 ngan triangle-shaped plot at the bottom to Dtong. So, Dtong now has 3 ngan to play with. Unfortunately, there is an unattractive strip of land left in the middle, but for the sake of efficiency on the day, this is tolerated so we can get the surveyors to place the markers down.

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    By this stage, we have wasted a bit of time with discussions and we do not have much time to get the full job done. The main boss has turned up from the land office and asks for clear instruction to get this done in one day. Everybody points at me and says follow his instructions. The main boss chap tells me that they will not try to get the land split to exactly 3 ngan for this plot or 2 ngan for that plot, as they have wasted too much time. He stresses that some plots may be a little bit short or over as a result. He tells me to tell the surveyor chaps where to place the markers. Wow! No pressure then. All this time, I had been relying on rather inaccurate GPS readings on my phone. I had been hoping that I could give a rough idea to the professionals with much more sophisticated kit so they could hone exact positions to make sure that exact land areas could be given to the plots; i.e. exactly 3 ngan to the missus, 3 ngan to Dtong and 2 ngan to the central strip. But this was not to be! So, I had to think very carefully about where our markers would be.

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  4. #54
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    I was glad that we had our got the job done in the end. We had enough land now to realise the project. It had been a long day. I went home sunburned to check out the positions again. Had I got it right? I was disappointed to see that the eastern boundary wall was not quite 90° perpendicular south to north. It was off by about 3 degrees eating into our land. No bother. It was a good job given the circumstances. Whilst giving the plot I had marked out personally with Google Maps on my phone a good inspection, the most important thing was that we had the basis for a house build and all our plans could be realised. Thank Christ! And! No more dealing with the old fogies. We are now free of the family. The ball is in our court now and we can deal with architects and builders. Crucially, we can give a chanote to an architect to show we are serious.


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    In the end, when the missus came back from the land office a few weeks later to pick up our chanote, I could see that I had short-changed ourselves by about 50 sqm. We got 1,142.4 sqm instead of the full 3 ngan (1,200 sqm). The missus was characteristically miffed. How avaricious of her! 50 sqm is nothing in the grand scheme of things. For me, though, just relief. Now for the next headaches to come…

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin View Post
    Nice thread.
    Hi BoB, thanks for stopping by. 😊 My apologies for the tardy response. For some reason, your post was invisible to me until after I had starting posting yesterday. Very strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin View Post
    I don't want to put an AC unit in each room in the standard way. Is it too late to install under floor heating?
    Underfloor heating? Over here? 😊 Please clarify what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin View Post
    In my simple mind's eye, I envisage a pair of ducts in each room. One pulls warm air from the ceiling, which travels through the roof space to a central unit, with an energy recovery device, and cooled, conditioned air is returned to the second vent. Each room's circulation can be turned on or off separately.

    I am happy to pay more up front to save on electricity costs in the long run.
    Unless you flesh out the novel mechanics of your invention, this sounds very much like a central air-conditioning system to me. They are expensive to buy, install and maintain. Here in Thailand, you almost never see them in a domestic setting; they are predominantly in large buildings (offices / hotels / hospitals). And, because it is central, if there is a problem, you have no cooling in any of the rooms of your house until it is fixed.

    In the past in my rented accommodation here in Thailand, having a spare room with its own, dedicated, split air-conditioning system has been a godsend. There were a few occasions when the air-con unit in the main room either broke down or was dribbling too much and causing excessive noise or mess for continued use over the night. In those instances, the missus and I just turned the lights off and moved over to the second bedroom with the aim of calling the air-con service technicians the next morning. We are currently staying in some cheap digs owned by one of my aunties-in-law. There is only one bedroom in this unit. If the bedroom air-con starts playing up in the evening time, we will have no choice but to go and stay in a hotel.

    Like you, I approached this subject with a critical eye looking for more efficient ways to do things, even if unorthodox. Unfortunately, when it comes to cooling and dehumidifying, there is no other way to do it cost-effectively and cheaply than using split air-con units in each room. This is definitely one of those things where the Thais have it right; in fact all the countries in South East Asia do it this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastOfBodmin View Post
    We built a large house and used walls with an insulating layer, insulating double glazing windows (and insect screens) and roof insulation. We will have some blackout curtains installed later. Maybe shutters outside too.
    Sounds like you already made an effort to incorporate passive cooling elements into the design, which is great. This should reduce the need for air-con, but of course it won’t obviate the need for air-con entirely. This is something I have reluctantly had to come to terms with. The only thing I can think of for the future in terms of reducing energy bills is subsequently installing some kind of solar energy system for the house to bring the cost of the active cooling system (i.e. the power-hungry air-con) down.

    Apart from that, split air-con systems in each room is the cheapest, easiest-to-install, most-hassle-free solution, and one which air-con companies, Thai builders, air-con service technicians understand.

  6. #56
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    Manc, absolutely love reading this thread. Great write-up.. Can't wait for the next chapter!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manc View Post
    she is also concerned about Dtong being forced to then subsequently sell that land to clear his debts
    Very interesting tale Manc. Keen to hear how it all works out.

    She is right to be concerned. As you describe things it is almost inevitable that the chanote will go to a bank for a loan, that Dtong's wife will then use the money and the day will come when the repayments stop and the bank takes the chanote. On the plus side, if you stay on top of that situation you might find that your wife can then get the land at auction at a reasonable price.

    I am fortunate that my gf does not have the complicated family issues, her parents and only brother already passed on. Even so, I didn't want to get involved with her plot in the village so I bought a separate plot. Which has still thrown up its own complications.

    So far as aircon costs are concerned, if you use QCon for the external and internal walls and insulate the ceilings and keep your office and bedroom reasonably small then it shouldn't be prohibitive to cool those two rooms, one during the day and one at night.

    Do you have a floor plan ready for the OrBorTor? Then comes the question of finding a builder. I certainly wouldn't recommend mine.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    Manc, absolutely love reading this thread. Great write-up.. Can't wait for the next chapter!!!

    Thank you, Schuimpge! It's my pleasure. Believe me, there is already a lot I have omitted purely for reasons of time. I have very little of it at the best of times. It's nice to get some positive feedback for the tale; it gives me the impetus to make more entries.

    Unfortunately, I can see we have a lot of readers and few contributors. If you are lurking and are enjoying the story, please don't be shy and consider saying hello. It would be greatly appreciated.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Very interesting tale Manc. Keen to hear how it all works out.
    Cheers, mate! 😊

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    She is right to be concerned. As you describe things it is almost inevitable that the chanote will go to a bank for a loan, that Dtong's wife will then use the money and the day will come when the repayments stop and the bank takes the chanote. On the plus side, if you stay on top of that situation you might find that your wife can then get the land at auction at a reasonable price.
    The family has money, and would step in to prevent something like that happening, I have been told. It is more that they didn’t want Dtong to have the immediate temptation more than anything else – hence the initial plan to only have a chanote made for my missus and not Dtong. They would have managed that down the line. In the meantime, Dtong has fortunately managed to consolidate his debt into a more manageable package. It is the 20–30 years in the future that I worry about. We know the family now; what about when the kids don’t earn enough money as motorbike taxi drivers and hairdressers? We will likely have new neighbours then. 😊

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    So far as aircon costs are concerned, if you use QCon for the external and internal walls and insulate the ceilings and keep your office and bedroom reasonably small then it shouldn't be prohibitive to cool those two rooms, one during the day and one at night.
    This is exactly my plan. I plan to take you on a tour of the plans soon. I have good plans already, but final drawings and BoQ are due on Tuesday next week (24th). Hence me trying to rush through a few entries before the next stage starts up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    Do you have a floor plan ready for the OrBorTor? Then comes the question of finding a builder. I certainly wouldn't recommend mine.
    Haha! Oh dear, did you tell your story in a thread? Would love to hear it.

    OrBorTor plan submission will be in the next few weeks. We have friends and family in the OrBorTor, so this should not be a problem. The builder thing is coming up in a couple of entries time. Stay tuned!

  10. #60
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    Turn-key solution contractor

    Last year while we were still in the early planning stages of the build, we were wondering whether to do the build ourselves by contracting individual entities (architects, builders, electricians, built-in furniture specialists, etc.) or just find a turn-key solution, like the businesses that make all of those Western-style houses in Pattaya and other places. With me working, finding a turn-key solution would save me a lot of hassle. I was obviously prepared for it being more expensive than doing it ourselves, but how much so? Also, could we actually trust independent contractors? We had a few dealings with some of them over the years, and had heard horror stories. The missus is also a member of a Facebook group that share information about dodgy contractors who short-change clients, steal deposits, or just generally do shoddy work. So, to what extent would it be worth it?

    We located a contractor in Ang-Sila. I won’t name them for obvious reasons. We walked through the door of the showroom and were instantly treated like royalty. Drinks offered (tea or coffee), comfortable sofas to sit on and browse through snazzy company brochures, knowledgeable sales reps also suited and booted. Who’s paying for all this? Obviously, that’s a rhetorical question. The high mark-up for what we want to do was in plain sight already.

    The service was very professional and courteous. I presented my plans using my Excel spreadsheets, which were basic house designs. Then they gave us their spiel, and then questions and answers followed. There are customers unlike me who have done no designs of their own and are quite happy to take off-the-shelf designs that look like the standard 2-story boxes you see all over Thailand.

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    They mainly offer these standard-looking, identikit houses. I was a little bemused as to why people would find these attractive. If you’ve got your own land, why not have a bit of imagination? There are lovely villas and Balinese-style houses in Phuket, Samui, Pattaya – why not go for something like that? Initially, I was quite keen on a U-shaped design with the pool as the fulcrum in the centre, visible from every room; and bungalows with no space-loss due to stairways that you get with 2/3-story buildings. The knowledgeable and friendly salesperson was quite clear as to why people generally don’t go for these styles – privacy! Hmm, yeah, he’s right. In those U-shaped villas, everybody can see everybody else in every room. Sometimes people just want a bit of space.

    However, they insisted they can do bespoke plans. They can take my designs, and get their in-house architects and draughtsmen to reify my plans into professional drawings. They will even liaise with the OrBorTor, sorting out stuff like our house number and address, which sounds like great assistance. All included in the price. In terms of water and electric connections, it would have to be us that get all of that sorted directly with the PEA and municipal water authority. However, they would do all the final connections and set-up. They are going to need/use electric and water for the build process, obviously, but they said they would pay for those utility bills and incorporate the costs on their side during the build process, which is pretty good.

    They had several different tiers for fittings: basic, standard and premium. They offered us their “premium design” package, which looked pretty basic and standard to me. I noticed there was no guttering from the roofs at all. The kitchens also looked very basic. It looks like the standard thing you see in Global House / ThaiWatsadu. Nowhere near European standard. Big granite food-prep island? That’s extra! And we would be best off sorting that out ourselves. Having said that the bathrooms were decent. They later shared some images of their builds, the materials used and the final outcome on the Line app.

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  11. #61
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    There was a bit of discussion about the necessity of posts being driven for the foundations. They were quoting B13,000 per pillar. Crikey! Their draughtsman in the back office marked out 22 pillars with red Xs on my provisional drawing that the sales lady gave him. That is B286,000 for the posts. The FiL was with us and is convinced that piles do not need to be driven. He says the land is already tight and compacted with it being at the base of a mountain; no need for deep pile-driving, he says, none of the buildings around here have it; nor does his house which has been there for 25 years with no problems. After all, ours is only a bungalow, no extra floors. In the meantime, we have spoken to a whole host of architects and builders, and the opinion as to whether deep footings need to be driven is split down the middle, 50/50. The lady said not having piles would invalidate their warranty. This particular turn-key house builder gives a twenty year warranty on the structure. Later on last year, we met a Cambodian builder and had a very interesting discussion with him. He says he knows the company from whom you can rent one of these post-driving machines locally. He says they cost B15,000 per day, including delivery and machine operator. The Cambodian chap reckons 22 posts would take 2–3 days of work to complete, so about B45,000. That is quite some mark-up for the price we were quoted. Forget the complementary coffee, where’s my fucking Bollinger?

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    So what about my idiosyncratic desires for the build? Double walls charged? Charged extra. No fancy ceiling recesses; they are all standard flush straight with each room having 4x recessed lights. Anything more than that? extra! Each room with 2x double plug socket. That is really inadequate, but if you want any more – extra! I want some to have USB sockets for phone charging in the bedrooms, I have seen they sell them now in all the main hardware stores … extra. And also RJ45 sockets for computer and TV. Extra.

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    Windows and doors will be aluminium and white. Any difference in colour, perhaps uPVC … extra. There was also the issue of logistics. If you want to source your own windows and doors, then they will have to be on site at the time they are scheduled for fitting. Any delays to the construction build? I can imagine there would be a contractual penalty for failure to supply.

    They said they could do a pavilion/sala and a car port, for the same price per sqm as the house! Wow! Those structures are pretty simple to do. I saw home owners in complexes in Pattaya have car ports, overhangs and extensions done independently. I am pretty sure that most people buy the materials themselves and get these jobs done by local builders for a quarter of the rate applied to a full house build, where drainage and stuff is incorporated into the plan, making those structures much more complex. A swimming pool they could do, but they were open about this being contracted out. Again, we could just go direct.


    So what does all of that service cost? We actually made two visits to this place. Once in December 2019 and once in August 2020. In 2019, the price was B15k per square metre. In August last year it had risen to B16,050 per sqm. I can imagine it has risen again now. The provisional design that I gave them back in August 2020 to give me a suggested price was 170 sqm, which worked out at B2,724,488. My build is much bigger now, at around 250 sqm, which would be B4,012,500, at Aug. 2020 prices. They did not mention anything about VAT. But also, they did not include the price for driving the piles, which would bump it up a bit. Not forgetting that we would then have to purchase, buy and install a swimming pool, perimeter wall, paving and coping around the pool, a lawn and garden ornaments, furniture (TVs, air-con, beds, tables, chairs, cupboards), a bespoke kitchen, a car port, a pavilion in the garden … Jeez. So the price you pay will give you something like this…


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    Note the mud bath around it. Not one bit of work is done outside the foot print of the house for that price. We left the second time and the FiL was whining profusely: what a fkn rip-off! The missus and I were beginning to agree with him. I am very busy with work, but I am not paying massive mark-ups for that rather basic final product. This turn-key contractor was the best-rated in our locality. I exhaled massively upon the realisation that we would have to do everything ourselves to get value for money. Oh well! It’s an adventure isn’t it? And I am learning as we go.

    I can understand why that company and others like it get so much business. People just don’t have the time. However, I kind of see making this a project for myself like learning life skills. Even as a tenant over the years, I have had to learn how things work when they break down so I can fix them myself. I I am involved in every facet of the house building operation, I get to have my own personal input, and if there are things I come across that I do not understand (like plumbing, air-con failure, electrical issues), then it is an opportunity to learn how it works, rather than pay somebody I don’t know and don’t trust to do it for me. If I understand how things work, I can also be a much more discerning observer to look out for shoddy workmanship. It has to be our own build. Then I will become a much more capable home owner.

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    Great thread ! I can empathize with you regarding the land split. Earlier this year my wife and her 3 sisters decided to formally split one of the rice paddies on the family farm. It is a large wedge shaped plot, and belonged to a brother who now has his own farm in Chiang Rai, so the plan was they would all equally pay him for it and then split amongst themselves. The original DIY method was to measure along the 2 long sides, divide those sides equally and draw lines across to split it into four.
    Duh ! The wedge shape meant that one end was about 50% bigger than the other end so the land split was not equal. As the youngest sister the missus would get what was left, inevitably the smallest section, yet expected to pay the same amount as the sister getting the biggest plot. No diagram would convince the other sisters at first, until I finally showed sister number 3 that she was also getting the short end of the deal. Eventually they agreed to get a proper surveyor to split it up into equal land area....at my expense since I was making all the fuss. But in the end it only cost a few hundred baht and a bottle of Sangsom.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by manc View Post

    Unfortunately, I can see we have a lot of readers and few contributors. If you are lurking and are enjoying the story, please don't be shy and consider saying hello. It would be greatly appreciated.

    manc
    You have forced me to post a reply rather than remain a "lurker". There is no way I would build another house here in Thailand or any other country for that matter it is too stressful for me.
    I am afraid I don't have the patience or personality to go through that again. If you want to read about my build there is a thread on here about it "Ootai's wife builds a house" I think it was called.
    We built it back in 2010 and it is still standing. There are some issues but nothing major, in my opinion anyway.

    I also would get claustrophobic living on a 1150sqm block. Our place is a compilation of several pieces of land with a total of about 15 rai. The house "block" is 2 rai and sort of walled in.
    Plenty of room to have dogs, cats and chickens.

    Anyway enough bullshit about me, all I can do is wish you well and hope you succeed in getting the outcome you desire. So far it seems you are persistent so that bodes well for not getting done over by the Thai's lack of planning or in a lot of cases understanding of westerners expectations.

    Hopefully you have the complete support of your wife as you will need it.

    I am not sure if you have said anything or not yet about your work status in do you work outside of Thailand?
    If you do be prepared to take your time with the build which in my opinion is all the more reason to do it all yourself using whatever contractor you need at the time.

    Once again good luck.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    Great thread !
    Thanks for stopping by and saying hello, mikenot!

    Glad you got your land division issue sorted. Amazing what a bottle of Sangsom can do. I need to note down all the tools at my disposal for the challenges to come.

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    [QUOTE=manc;4297914]Thank you, Schuimpge! It's my pleasure. Believe me, there is already a lot I have omitted purely for reasons of time. I have very little of it at the best of times. It's nice to get some positive feedback for the tale; it gives me the impetus to make more entries.

    Ah, please don't omit too much.. With a bit of marketing, you could sell every post as a Thai tv-drama script!

    Interesting stuff on the turnkey contractors. You might have seen the work I'm doing on my house-design. The first estimate that came back was about 2.6m for 132sqmt.
    To be fair, they don't know the location to build and many other things, so it's only an estimate, but not far from the the first 'off the cuff' 20k/smtr.
    But that includes also the terrace in front at full sqmt price, so that's on the list to discuss!

    Problem for me is the same as you mentioned. I would need to be there full time if I'm contracting out the work myself.
    Turnkey gives a reasonable alternative but at a cost.
    Also, I did specify a reasonable amount of construction details like q-con, factory installed PU-foam backing for the roof, using quality con-wood for flooring/pergola etc. Price included a fitted out bathroom, but without kitchen..

    look forward to finally see the ideas you've come up with, design, energy savings etc..
    Good luck..

    Luc

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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai View Post
    all I can do is wish you well and hope you succeed in getting the outcome you desire.
    Thanks for stopping by, ootai, and for the well-wishes! 😊

    Thanks also for pointing out your build thread. I will take a look. That bad, heh? I hope it doesn’t me off completely.

    Yeah, the managing-of-expectations thing is something I am going to have to hone. It is not going to end up perfect and there will be problems. Ultimately, though, we need a house of our own. So it will be a labour of love and money. It will also be a learning experience I will enjoy. The other silver lining is that it will – hopefully – be the only time we do this in our lives. I will not be doing it again.

    The wife is very supportive, because ultimately it will be her house. And she is as frustrated as I am with all of our house-moving and frosty landlord relationships.

    I am fortunate enough to work from home. The build will be going on a couple of hundred metres from my desk, so I can pop out to see the carnage unravelling at any time. Although we are quite keen to move in, I don’t want to be regretting having rushed for the rest of my days. Step by step and no impetuousness.

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    To be fair, I should add to my previous post on cost that the 'contractor' is a proper architect, so no catalog of standard 2 story boxes.
    Coming weeks I hope to be able to make some steps again on the project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    Ah, please don't omit too much.. With a bit of marketing, you could sell every post as a Thai tv-drama script!
    Haha! Thanks for the complement, Luc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    You might have seen the work I'm doing on my house-design.
    Wow! I hadn’t seen your build thread; just found it though. I will take a look. I have not read any of the recent builds on the construction forum. I guess I really should be doing, though. After working, doing house planning stuff, other life stuff, and making entries on here, I don’t want to be reading about other builds before I go to sleep. 😊 I will be too restless and active, switching from the phone to the desktop while reading to take notes, as I was with the ThaiDhupp build. The reading I do before I go to sleep is for a bit of escapism – pi, infinity, distant galaxies, ancient human history and genealogy, etc. One afternoon while I am escorting the missus to the hairdressers and other banal stuff, I will sit down and binge-read it.

    Yeah, the turnkey option really is attractive in certain respects. I did read, however, one farang report that he had done two builds: one by himself with individual contractors and one turnkey, and he said the self-build was way better. When you add the +++ to the charge to do what you actually want to do and add the personal touches, you may as well have done it yourself. I would be very disappointed to think I am getting a stress-free one-stop shop product, only to end up with an inferior product that was more stress and inconvenience than just doing it myself.

    Let’s see if I change my tune after dealing with some of the local builders. 😊

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuimpge View Post
    To be fair, I should add to my previous post on cost that the 'contractor' is a proper architect, so no catalog of standard 2 story boxes.
    Coming weeks I hope to be able to make some steps again on the project.
    Good luck with that, Luc! I shall be paying attention now.
    Seems we are at a similar stage in our respective projects. You and I are now in competition for who finishes first.

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by manc View Post
    Good luck with that, Luc! I shall be paying attention now.
    Seems we are at a similar stage in our respective projects. You and I are now in competition for who finishes first.
    lol..that’s an easy bet.. you got the land all settled.
    I’m still stuck in Pathum/Ayutthaya with my factory/work, current house, family etc.
    with COVID, earliest I’ll be able to look around for land is early next year.
    But I’ll take the challenge, see how a turtle can defeat the rabbit.. 😂

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    The plan

    The drawings were supposed to be here on Tuesday, but the architect has had to apologise for a delay. Final drawings will now be here by the end of the month. I would have preferred to show you the final plans, as they differ from those below, but they are a good enough place to start. And, I am free today and don’t know how busy I am going to be next week. So here we go.


    Solex project-1-jpg



    ^ Rough outline





    Solex project-2-jpg



    ^ Picture of the ground layout with respect to chanote boundaries and north-facing stream.


    As stated, this is an old version of the plan. We made many changes throughout the design process; right up to the moment we instructed the architect with final drawings. The fact that we were still making changes until late on is not a good sign, because it shows we were probably not ready, but I would probably have been making changes for the next five years, and we wanted to make a start on the build in the coming months (at least by the start of the dry season). I did my own plans in Microsoft Excel, going through at least 25 iterations, and they changed quite considerably at first but began to assume the same shape after about version 10. The final change is quite a big one, however, and I will explain it to you as I take you through the rooms and explain a bit of the logic behind the design.

    Going east to west (left to right) we start with the master bathroom, dressing room, master bedroom, second bedroom and en suite, third bedroom and en suite, office and gym. This makes up the long southern wing, which has a main corridor running along the southern wall opening out into a utility room. From there, we head up the short eastern section wing through a corridor, passing the pantry, kitchen, dining area. Then we curve round into the top east section incorporating the pump room and guest’s toilet.

    The plan is for single, 10cm Q-Con (AAC) blocks throughout the design, with the exception of the exposed southern wall along the bottom and the exposed western wall of the master bathroom, which will be 20cm thick. The internal wall between the master bedroom and second bedroom is 20cm thick, as is wall separating the third bedroom and office: the reason for this being the location of the TVs on the wall and my attempt at a little more sound insulation. I have not opted for 20cm thick blocks on the outer eastern walls of the eastern wing, because a big chunk of it is covered by the car port, and the top northern bit is an area we will not be spending much time in. In any event, that side also has quite a bit of tree cover.

    I quite like the idea of a roofed sala just off from the house; especially one that matches the design of the house paint and roof. As we saw in a complex in Pattaya, from which we took a lot of inspiration. In fact we gave these pictures to the architect and asked him to model a lot of the design on that house.


    Solex project-3-jpg



    Initially we put our sala immediately to the west of the pool. However, we noticed that it would be too much of an obstruction to the view from the bedrooms to the south. So, we moved it to be inline with the end of the house. This also provides us with a view from the sala of the mountain that is to the south of the house around the corner, which would previously have been obstructed by the house itself. To be honest, I cannot see us sitting there much. We are definitely indoors people. However, I would rather have it than not, and I would also hate to have to do it later on, so we do it now. I cannot see it costing that much.


    With regards to the roof, I would much prefer to have a mono-pitched roof slanting back to one side.

    Solex project-4-jpg



    The southern end of the house is the arse end: I don’t really care if the rain drips spills out to that side. We won’t be going there much anyway. Then we could do away with costly and unsightly guttering. However, this was overruled by the missus who insisted on a house that looked like the style from the development we saw in Pattaya. The architect agreed with her.


    Solex project-5-jpg



    I like the idea of a colorbond roof, for its thermal properties. However, I am not keen on the noise factor during torrential rains. So, I think we will be going with standard tiles, as in the example picture.

    I asked him about ventilation. Would it not need some kind of roof vent at the top? There are no gables in our design. He insisted the aerated soffits would provide adequate ventilation for the attic area. He also agreed with the missus that adding vents or a gable end with some kind of vent would look horrible. Both the roof and ceiling will have insulation. The roof pitch is light and not steep at all. We are not going to be able to use the attic as room space, but we will be able to access it to sort electrical wiring and stuff out. Due to the length of the house we have incorporated two access hatches to the attic: one in the main corridor and one in the pump room.


    Solex project-6-jpg



    The house will get its natural light mainly from the north side. All of those rooms on the long southern section have large windows/doors, running from the floor to 200cm in height. This is to compensate for those rooms only having one window. The master bathroom, dressing room and master bedroom all only have one large north-facing window. The missus wanted a window on the western wall of the master bathroom but, as that side has no tree cover, it would be subjected to too much sun. The corridor and utility room (where the washing machine and main circuit breaker will go) will have short long windows just under the overhang of the roof to allow diffuse light in. Obviously, they cannot be at the standard eye-level, because they would be exposed to the southern sun.


    Solex project-7-jpg



    The eastern wing will also have north-facing windows. Unfortunately, the kitchen and dining room area will have large windows/doors on the western wall section there, exposed to the setting and afternoon sun. As stated, the west-side of the house has no tree cover, and I foresee the kitchen area becoming a bit of an oven. Sadly, there is not a great deal I can do about this. Due to the orientation of the house and its design, this is a major compromise. However, being able to sit and enjoy a view of the pool from the kitchen / dining room is ample compensation for this.

    My research on acquiring well-made, uPVC, double/treble glazing has left me disappointed. Yes, you can source it, but it is very expensive over here. The Thais are quite happy with their 3mm glazing and aluminium profiles. As we have a lot of glazing, and with it being designed to fill whole wall spaces, rather than being the off-the-shelf measurements readily available from ThaiWatsadu, GlobalHouse, etc., glazing will already be a big cost in this build, and so we are going to have to see what is left in the budget to acquire a decent solution here. Although I am resigned to the fact that our purchases here might have to be the cheapest option: single glazing and aluminium profiles.

    The brickwork is also a compromise on overall cost in that regard. I figure: what’s the point in having 20cm thick walls on the long southern wing, for example, and then having a large pane of thin glass? It kind of defeats the purpose. I am going to have to rely on the orientation of the house and the reduction of sunlight-exposed glazing for thermal management in this regard. There are loads of threads on this forum and elsewhere regarding cavity walls. I am not too keen on having a hole in the wall, or for Thai builders to do it properly.


    That long corridor along the southern wing is going to put a lot of people off.

    Solex project-8-jpg



    I thought about this a lot, because it is unsightly and takes up a lot of house space. Unfortunately, I don’t see how you can get away with it. We stayed in a complex in Pattaya with some villas; some were contiguous buildings with a corridor, and some were separate buildings.


    Solex project-9-jpg



    The separate building style looks great. It just is not practical for us, though. If we were to make that section open plan with arches, say, then every bedroom would be exposed to the outside world. Very easy to break in to. Then you have the issues raised in previous entries regarding damp. Also, if I have a shower and go to bed and realise I need to nip into the kitchen or office before going to sleep, opening that bedroom door to the outside will mean that I am drenched in sweat after a few seconds in the wet season. I would have to go back into the bathroom and have another shower before hitting the hay! When the rain comes, constantly going inside and outside would mean the floor would get wet, and so you would have to have sandals on the floor for entering different rooms. It also means our cats would walk into rooms potentially bringing loads of dirt in.

    “But!” the missus protested, “why not have the corridor north-facing, then people in the rooms would have privacy from the pool”. But a view of the pool and garden area is important for the homeliness of the rooms. You also want to make use of the diffuse light from the north side. If that light is being used by the corridor, then what a waste! And, you would need south-facing windows in all of those rooms. So, the corridor is a reluctantly incorporated necessity.


    Solex project-10-jpg



    (^ This is a screenshot from the architect's software. I do not have the drawings of this yet and it differs from the pics above)


    The major change to the design that I mentioned before is the incorporation of a lounge / TV room next to the kitchen and to the north of what will be a down-sized car port. The initial plan was to have the dining table area double as a TV room, with the TV on the wall of the pump room. However, when I was making Excel spreadsheets of the individual rooms to insert furniture and get a feel for the rooms, I realised we had nowhere near enough space! Obvious, really, come to think of it, but I thought we could squeeze it in. There was me concentrating on the minutiae and ignoring the obvious.


    The car port also has ample space for one car (maybe even two) and a couple of motorbikes, at a pinch. But we would have had a lot of carport there (all of that is one large contiguous roofed section with two pillars at the side), so it made sense to make an extra room there and solve lots of problems in one go.


    We can now park the car and come in with the shopping through the utility room door and not get wet if it is raining. We remove the south-facing entrance doors in the car port and put a small entrance door next to the entrance toilet, and we now have a recessed area for storing coats and shoes in the corridor along the north wall of the TV room. The toilet being at the entrance has not passed the Chinese-family-mandated feng shui test from the FiL, but I would prefer guests to have ready access to a toilet so they do not enter the main living section along the southern wing. Compromises; everywhere. Welcome to the world of design, I suppose!


    Solex project-11-jpg



    The pump room will house the house water pump. Just outside it to the north we plan to have a septic tank for the adjacent bathroom and an in-ground water tank. The pump room will also house the pool equipment: pump, filter and salt water chlorinator. This room will not be accessible from inside the house, but rather from outside via a north-facing door. I showed these plans to swimming pool contractors in Pattaya (I will provide more detail on that in a later thread), and they said the distance between the pump room and the pool shouldn’t be a problem, although it does look like we have quite a bit of head there and a few bends.

    There will be another septic tank to the south of the master bathroom, draining the bathrooms in the southern, “bedroom” wing. Both of these drain areas (east and west points) will have discharge pipes leading out from the house to the stream (storm water) on the northern boundary – that’s two separate pipes on either side of the house. I spoke to the architect about this. I know we cannot discharge certain types of water (brown water, for example; not sure about grey water), but as we are not on a main street, I think this will be our main water discharge point.

    The plan for the house elevation is for it to be raised 50 cm from the floor. The two entrance points on the east will have steps. The northern-facing areas around the pool will have a 20cm drop to the ground outside. The plan is to have that area raised with soil and it will slope out lightly towards the east and west and north from the centre to allow for natural drainage. This means the house will have two different levels off the ground, depending on the area.


    Solex project-12-jpg



    The architect’s idea was to have a 100cm perimeter slab going around the house, illustrated quite nicely by the example house build from Pattaya. I decided I did not want this. It looks great in that picture, but I lived in a house with this before, and it needs sweeping and mopping regularly. The other thing is I don’t want to create an exposed slab of concrete connected to the house to allow for heat transfer – especially along the southern wall. I read threads from other farang home owners who have stated that they regret having made the area between the pool and their house one contiguous concrete block. Those things retain heat and, if you ever want/need to do work on the pool or underground piping, then you are making things more complicated. This appeared quite intuitive to me, so the entire house (with the exception of the car port floor) will be surrounded by grass / lawn. I know that can create different types of problems, such as the soil dirt from rain, but this appears to me to be a better problem to have to manage.

    After reading the detailed concept entry regarding thermal efficiency and whatnot, readers will probably have anticipated a more advanced, eco-friendly design. Unfortunately, I have had to make numerous compromises. Firstly, in terms of harnessing light and space, and also in terms of what is available, feasible, aesthetic and realistic, but also in terms of budget. We want to build a big enough house to live in, but if you had top-level glazing, for example, thick cavity walls and all the rest, our house would be a fraction of the size to fall within the anticipated budget. With all of those criteria, I am happy with this plan.

    What do you think? Constructive criticisms and suggestions and questions are welcome.

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    Well, that was a lot to digest :-) You have done your homework and I can understand the logic behind your planning, but there is one thing I disagree with :
    I asked him about ventilation. Would it not need some kind of roof vent at the top? There are no gables in our design. He insisted the aerated soffits would provide adequate ventilation for the attic area. He also agreed with the missus that adding vents or a gable end with some kind of vent would look horrible.

    The ventilated soffits could let cooler air in, but where is the hot air going to go ? it's going to be stuck under your roof, so no cool air will be able come in. SCG have some rather stylish tile vents, depending on what your tile choice is going to be . Personally I think gable vents look ok, but that's me. Sometimes people can be more worried about form than function.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    Well, that was a lot to digest :-)
    And this was a dramatically edited version. 😉

    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    You have done your homework and I can understand the logic behind your planning
    Thank you for the encouragement, Mike.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    The ventilated soffits could let cooler air in, but where is the hot air going to go ? it's going to be stuck under your roof, so no cool air will be able come in.
    I was sat with the architect and a builder (who will likely be commissioned to do the build) and they both insisted a roof vent / roof vents wouldn’t be necessary. They said as there is eaves overhang with soffits on all sides, cool air would enter and cool the hot air trapped up top. I was suspicious about that at the time.

    Thank you for the suggestion about the tile vents, too. I’m going to have to think about this a little more.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikenot View Post
    Sometimes people can be more worried about form than function.
    And this is something that I was determined to avoid. Thank you for this constructive feedback.

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    I thought maybe I should be a contributor rather than a lurker so here's my take on a couple of things. Remember they are only suggestions/ideas so you are welcome to take it or leave it, up to you.

    The air flow in the "attic" space, I don't think Thai's understand this idea and only think that air can get in so it must be also able to get out. The idea of "flow" escapes them.
    Yes if you have open soffits all round then also have a strong wind it would force air to flow across the attic space but what happens when there is no wind?
    I am not sure if they are available here in Thailand but I have seen pictures of people who have installed rid capping which is manufactured in such a way that it acts as an air vent. If you could get some of that then that could solve the look versus function argument. Probably would have been easy to find it suitable for an iron roof but I'm sure there are versions made for cement tile rooves.

    The second point was to do with your comment about the sun shining into your kitchen dining area. There was so much detail in your post it was a bit confusing at times but I believe I have it sorted in my head but just to be sure, I think you were talking about the area where I have placed a red rectangle in your picture, shown below.
    I am assuming you were talking of having large glass windows to the eastern end of the pool. My idea would be to erect a pergola about the size of the red rectangle. Then instead of closing the roof use angled slats so that the sunshine is allowed in in the morning but not in the afternoon. This would stop the sun shining on your windows. Depending on availability here in Thailand (once again) you could if you wanted get metal slats that are adjustable. My daughter has slats on her pergola in Aussie and they are rain sensitive so close if it starts to rain. I reckon this would create a nice area for a couple of layback chairs/couches for lounging by the pool.

    One thing that I didn't understand was where you were going to access the pool area from, is it from the kitchen area or do you have to walk around to the car port area as I didn't really see any doors around the pool.

    Good luck.

    Solex project-mancs-kitchen-jpg

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    Just a remark on the rain-noise with colorbond roof. Can't say from my own experience, but every build story I've read on CTH did say that PU-Foam backed colorbond roof does a great job in sound isolation.
    Don't think it will make a difference to your material-choice anymore, but thought I mention it.

    Ootai has a good point on putting a pergola there. It's exactly what I mentioned in my design as well. Pergola will keep most of the sun out and will give an interesting play with light and shadow during the day..

    The corridor indeed..lol. Interestingly, one of my good friends lived in a similar shaped bungalow (without the pool) and he also had this corridor facing the parking/street side of the house with all bedrooms attached to it.
    Not a fan of corridors, but with the pool as the center of the house, it's a good solution.

    Nice work!

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