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  1. #26
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    Ring Beam Pour

    A bit dull again but some photos of the ring beam pour, as mentioned previously all concrete is readymix. The two end elevations and back are going to be concrete block, just because they are sturdier and as such the ring beam here was not a full pour as per the internals and front as the ring beam rebar will have additional ties to cement in and lock to the underside of the first course of blocks - most don't do this but its a bit of a belt and braces build.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour10-jpg



    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour4-jpg


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour9-jpg


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour11-jpg


    In the second from last picture on the left you can see the roof steel or some of it.

    In the last picture, the forms are off and soil is getting delivered ready to pack in the voids.

  2. #27
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    a few further shots which are prep work for the slab pour.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour13-jpg


    I think they are strength testing the beams, the soil is in and awaiting a proper packing...

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour16-jpg


    The pipes for the brown and grey water were buried in the soil, below is one of the soak away rings, 2M deep.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour15-jpg


    another job before the pour was the termite system - 9,000 THB with materials, installation and guarantee -

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour18-jpg


    next is the slab pour.

  3. #28
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    Slab Pour Prep

    The pour is in one hit covering the entire footprint. The packed earth is covered with plastic sheet and fine mash, another layer of mesh is added during the pour which is probably OTT given the room sizes but the mesh is cheap so why not.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour25-jpg


    More plastic

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour21-jpg



    and more


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour22-jpg



    Room for some Rooms - par deux-pour27-jpg


    The slab depth was 11ish cms. Above you can see the blanked off bathroom areas where further work, tanking and pipework will be installed and this will get a separate pour.

    Slab pour later as that's my lunch break gone.
    Last edited by NamPikToot; 11-06-2020 at 07:37 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverna View Post
    NPT, do your wife's Thai customers like the "Rooms" to have those internal dividing walls making each internal room so small? (Living room, 3m x 4m; bedroom, 3m x 3m, etc)
    It would seem easier to forget the internal walls and have one, spacious, airy bedsit.

  5. #30
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    ^ i'll mention it, also Reacharounds idea of a Kennel the creepy fuker.

    Sheesh tough crowd, you lot need to get out of the smoke and see how the other half live

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    ^ i'll mention it, also Reacharounds idea of a Kennel the creepy fuker.

    Sheesh tough crowd, you lot need to get out of the smoke and see how the other half live
    I have inspected many and lived in a couple of similar places. They are all a bit different but I prefer the bigger single space myself. However, I am not the target market here.

  7. #32
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    Its palatial compared to a london flat

  8. #33
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    Hi toot - thanks for the thread! Question: are the measurements in meters (floor plan)? If yes, then each apartment is 4m wide and 8m length? (excluding parking area & ftont/ back setback). If it's 4 x 8m, then it's roughly the size of studio condo units here (I've stayed in a few Airbnb places similar to your wife's build).

    Sorry for the question - I don't know if measurements in TH are diff from PI. The Thais use "rai", which we don't use.
    Last edited by katie23; 11-06-2020 at 09:11 PM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    Sorry for the question
    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    Question: are the measurements in meters (floor plan)? If yes, then each apartment is 4m wide and 8m length? (excluding parking area & ftont/ back setback).
    Katie no need to apologise. Yes the measurements are in meters and so the internal area is 4x8. Thais seem happy enough. As mentioned many places don't come with the area out front for the car or whatever else they want to put there so these are luxury "Looms"

  10. #35
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    ^thanks toot! From what I've experienced and seen (brochures) here in PI, studio condo units range from 4x6 to 4x8, so yeah, your wife's rooms are fairly standard sized for Asia. I've a friend who lives in a 4x7 flat in a mid-rise bldg in Manila and her rent is 7 or 8k pesos (140 to 160 usd). No A/C, so the renters have to provide their own A/C or fans. Any idea for how much your wife will rent it out per month?

    Re: the design, I agree with Shutree that I prefer the single bigger area than having an enclosed space for the sleeping area. I've stayed in both types of condo units. Some owners put a divider between the living area & bed - it seems more cramped. But I can understand the need for privacy & the dividers, and maybe the need for separation of sleep vs work area (esp now that many ppl are working from home due to covid).

    I've recently seen a project on YT wherein the family hired a firm to renovate their small condo unit (probably 4x7m). It was a couple with 2 small kids, living in Manila. They wanted their home to be more space efficient & for the parents to have privacy too. It was interesting.

    Cheers! I'll be watching this space.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    Any idea for how much your wife will rent it out per month?
    Katie, her charge for this will be 2,000THB / month / unit with Water and electricity on top. She doesn't price gouge on the utilities but the water is town supply and so is more expensive than some in the area as they use the local supply which is from a borehole. The town supply is pretty clean but double the local supply in cost, the local supply being in a limestone area is extremely hard water and it stains floors in the bathrooms, makes washing inc showers less pleasant etc and the town supply will not fur the pipes up.

    As mentioned before this should give a return on investment in roughly 8-9 years or sooner (the maths at 800K indicate sooner c7 years but the final build cost isn't in yet) - 8 or 9 years is pretty good imo.

    The builds won't make her fortune individually but say c100K per year on this allowing for gaps in rental and this is her 4th build so 400K / year alongside other investments for her retirement and she should be able to keep me in the style i'm accustomed to ...trouble is she's a bit of a workaholic like her mum was (chinese) and so i can't see her living the Thai retirement dream of watching the family run around whilst you shoot shit with the other old ladies, she just won't be able to sit by and let her businesses get managed.

  12. #37
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    The Slab Pour

    As mentioned its ready mix, the boss had a team of eight on this and all hands to the pump.

    Incidentally, an insight into the Mrs:

    She ordered the concrete on the understanding that it would be delivered by 1PM, despite her chasing by phone they turned up at 4PM which given the work involved is insufficient time for them to tamp and skim the whole area before dark....sooo when the lorry arrived at 4PM they were sent packing with 7 Cu Meters swilling around and told to mix a fresh lot up and get it there by 10AM the next day or else they can take that lot back too and she'll find a company that understands a customers requirement and fulfills it. The first load turned up at 9AM the following day - she can be very firm and doesn't really give a shit about face if someone causes her problems.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab1-jpg


    that's not her in the hat btw

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab3-jpg


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab7-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab6-jpg  

  13. #38
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    More Pour

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab7-jpg



    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab8-jpg


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab13-jpg



    As mentioned before the second mesh dropped on a part pour.

    Floating the finish, they aren't worried out dogs and cats dancing on it as it'll be tiled over.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab11-jpg


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab12-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Room for some Rooms - par deux-slab1-jpg  
    Last edited by NamPikToot; 12-06-2020 at 04:08 PM.

  14. #39
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    They wait for the concrete to go off to the degree someone Ron sized can walk on it...i.e the next day and then cover it with more plastic peeling it back to water it every 3 hours or so for 3 days.

  15. #40
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    @toot - 2k baht per unit per month is cheap! I assume this is in the province? In my area, I don't think there are flats which go for 2k/ month. Maybe in the very rural provinces in PI, you'll find something for 2k. Just for comparison, condo units in Manila of that size (or smaller 46m) can be rented from 18k to 30k (with A/C), depending on location and if furnished or not, as well as facilities in the building (gym, pool, park, etc). I've another friend whose rent for a flat is 25k/ month (furnished & w/ AC). But yeah, that's a condo unit in the city - it's different in the provinces.

    Another question: why didn't your wife opt for a 2-storey building, to make use of the vertical space? The top of the carpark area could serve as a balcony/ clothes drying/ party place.

    Also, did they dig deeper for the posts? Thanks!

  16. #41
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    Katie, yes they are cheap and in the provinces but its the market that works for her - she's been able to secure the land cheap and get its title altered (no brown paper parcels or dodgy doings) but no chanote so it is a risk but she's not come unstuck yet in 10 years, this she's done on each occasion.

    As to the two storey issue, to a certain degree i concur and have spoken to her about this and there seems to be a story (pardon the pun) attached to do with building on this type of land and the tolerance of officials to builds of one vs two storey buildings. This she says is supported by someone she knew in the Kalasin area who knocked up two, two storey builds and although the officials let this lady keep them she ended up with a hefty payout which challenged the original build cost (or was given the choice to remove the offending structures).

    TBH this and her other business dealing are entirely her concern, she's fairly risk averse so i think she'll have weighed and investigated the issues - she gets very serious talking about business (i think because she's carried the family financially post her mother dying when she was young and has worried a great deal). If i need to lighten the mood i just throw a comment in i know will set her off and then after she's chased me round the garden a few times she's usually calmed down. Keeps her trim too.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    @toot - 2k baht per unit per month is cheap! I assume this is in the province? In my area, I don't think there are flats which go for 2k/ month. Maybe in the very rural provinces in PI, you'll find something for 2k. Just for comparison, condo units in Manila of that size (or smaller 46m) can be rented from 18k to 30k (with A/C), depending on location and if furnished or not, as well as facilities in the building (gym, pool, park, etc). I've another friend whose rent for a flat is 25k/ month (furnished & w/ AC). But yeah, that's a condo unit in the city - it's different in the provinces.

    Another question: why didn't your wife opt for a 2-storey building, to make use of the vertical space? The top of the carpark area could serve as a balcony/ clothes drying/ party place.

    Also, did they dig deeper for the posts? Thanks!
    Katie, I'll be interested too. As I said before, I have seen, visited and actually lived in more than one of these places in Isaan. I have a small plot in a good location and thought about putting 3 units there, but the space is a bit tight and the shape is wrong, so maybe it will not work for me.
    Locally the rent for one of these rooms is about Baht 2,000, no aircon. Plus water and electricity at an inflated rate which practice the government outlawed a while ago but landlords ignored that.

    I like the OP's plan although I wouldn't spend money on the bricks for those internal walls. The front covered parking makes them a bit special here.
    The reasons for not building up are several. Stairs use space. Noise transmission becomes an issue. More importantly, construction costs per unit increase because you need to strengthen the foundations and the columns. So if you are in a big town that makes sense and if you already own the land in an out-of-town location then keep it simple.

    I think. NPT will have his own ideas.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    Also, did they dig deeper for the posts? Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    The reasons for not building up are several. Stairs use space. Noise transmission becomes an issue. More importantly, construction costs per unit increase because you need to strengthen the foundations and the columns. So if you are in a big town that makes sense and if you already own the land in an out-of-town location then keep it simple.
    Katie, if you mean the foundations for the posts in this build, they are c1M deep pads on which the columns and ring beams rest but the ground is solid at that level. If you mean a two storey build then as Shutree says the structural costs increase inc foundations which is likely why many keep to one storey.

    Two Storey commercial builds in more urban areas are more likely to be tolerated and approved by any interested officials, less so in rural areas with negligible land titles is my understanding but i confess no expertise in this area.

    Shutree i think if you want to double up and go to two storeys then its a matter of investigating what has gone up in the area and getting someone (wife/partner) to contact the Land Dept and find out the art of the possible.

  19. #44
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    Thanks shutree & toot for the answers!

    I looked at the pics on the previous page, and I saw that they did dig deeper for the posts. And yeah, if it's to be a 2-storey building, the posts/ columns need to be bigger (I noticed that the columns were small).

    Re: 2-storey building, that's just my opinion. If I had that land, I would make a building that is 2 storeys to use the vertical soace & get more tenants. But yeah, it involves more cost too. And with NPT's wife's case - there are land use regulations involved.

    I have neighbors who live in a 4*5m flat, 4 flats per storey, 2 storey building, so 8 flats total. The flat has 1 small bedroom. I think the land area is 110 sqm (10m front, 11m deep). I've considered copying the design of the flats for possible future use. For that 4*5m flat (no AC), the rent is 3 to 4k pesos, exclusive of utilities. I live ~1 hour from Manila, so location-wise, it's not too provincial. Maybe in the more rural areas here, those 4*5m flats can be rented for 1.5 to 2k.

    What is a chanote? I know what a title is (transfer certificate of title), as well as tax declaration paper of the land. Those 2 papers are needed here to be able to get a building permit from the municipal/ city office, as well as the plans (structural, electrical, etc). I don't think we have a "chanote" here.

    Edit: oops, Toot answered above, just as I was typing this!

    I may/ may not have a build in future (land acquisition ongoing), so it's always good to learn!

  20. #45
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    Katie, I think land cost also influences how much you need to realise through income, the higher the original land cost the more you'll need/want to sweat the asset.

    Chanote is a type of land title in Thailand which entitles the owner of the land to do almost what they like with it, it is the highest form of land title and can be used as collateral in loans etc. Again i'm no expert, a link below to the various titles.

    https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-title-deeds.php

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    I may/ may not have a build in future (land acquisition ongoing), so it's always good to learn!
    If you have time and are not in a rush to build its wise to study urban development in areas you are looking to buy and try to invest in an area which with growth in say a 5-10 year horizon could see the land come into scope for development - with the pace of development in Asia its easier to buy cheaper and hold and wait for the urban sprawl to come to you - if you can wait.

    EDIT

    or sell it at quite a mark up, Mrs Toot did this where she wasn't convinced its location was ripe to build on but took up offers which made her a healthy profit. She's tended to buy, rent the land out to a farmer and wait - that way someone looks after if and you get a nominal income until its time to put the plan into action.
    Last edited by NamPikToot; 12-06-2020 at 08:01 PM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutree View Post
    I have a small plot in a good location and thought about putting 3 units there, but the space is a bit tight and the shape is wrong, so maybe it will not work for me.
    Shu, this used to be the benefit of forums, advice. Despite most of the negative shit you see on here there is a cohort of nice people based in Thailand and ones who have long experience in things there. My point, there are not many builds or advice here now because the readership has already settled and built but that doesn't mean you can't tap them up and rekindle fond memories - mostly they are happy to help you.

    Look up Dennis's snowbird build and you'll see Norts is keeping an eye on it and will help when he can with advice and eyes on..Thai Dhup's build is fantastic reading and out of most peoples reach ( ), BiPs was again different and had certain challenges which were interesting to see how he overcame them, but its about ideas and all builds give you ideas.

    The best advice i have seen on this forum starts with plans..weird i know but you mentioned awkward plot size etc. On the forum there have been many builds who've benefited from sharing their initial thoughts and plans and getting advice from the members - usually a build is sacrosanct - you'll get some ribbing but serious posters (and there are many) will take time to advise and help you so for goodness sake don't be put off and ask away.

  23. #48
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    @toot - thanks for the tips. The land is there (it's small compared to Dillinger standards, lol). I'm still thinking & researching on what to do with it later. At the moment, I'm watching house plans, house builds, DIY Ikea hacks, home & van renovations, etc in my free time. I guess I'm preparing for nesting? Haha. No travelling or hiking at the moment, so gotta amuse myself with other things. And I agree that this TD construction forum is very helpful (when folks are not slagging each other). Cheers!

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by katie23 View Post
    I looked at the pics on the previous page, and I saw that they did dig deeper for the posts.
    Katie,

    here's a pic of the foundation holes, their method is dig 1M square and the 1M down in the middle, they then fill the middle hole with concrete and then later make a Rebar basket approx 60cm x 60cm (part of one bottom right) and concrete this in and this is what accepts the rebar column you can see and it locks and holds the ring beams.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-drying10-jpg


    The slab depth is c11cm. They tamped and floated it and then roughed the surface whilst partially dry to accept the cement when the tile are laid.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-drying9-jpg


    Room for some Rooms - par deux-drying2-jpg


    You'll see they have begun the casing of the columns ready for the column pour

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-drying3-jpg


    you see the standing water, that's not rain, its where they are soaking it and will continue to do so for a few days - concrete takes up to 2 weeks to reach near maximum strength and continues to strengthen after that. The first few days are important and its key to the chemical curing process that it does not dry too quickly hence the damping down. Some builders are lazy and only give the concrete cursory wetting but this bloke routinely does it properly - a good sign imo.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-drying5-jpg


    A shot of the road frontage, still dirt at present but the car port area will get a pour in its own right and heavier Rebar to take account of 2.5 ton pick ups etc which may end up on the pads.

    Room for some Rooms - par deux-drying6-jpg

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    What can i say..they are built for a specific market and its Thais. Functional.
    Excellent project and full of info.

    The market decides and you have already found the solution. Once completed how do you advertise availability, a sign at the main road and a phone number?

    Do you have a local contact for any "repairs" etc?
    Last edited by OhOh; 13-06-2020 at 02:15 PM.

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