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  1. #1
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    Cooling down a Wall .

    This is just one question .

    I had a Thread in here about getting the temperature of the house down - cheaply - and it became an interesting read with many suggestions .
    However this is just a simple question about cooling down one wall .

    Missy .... is out in Thailand and I ... am not .
    A problem exists where one wall in particular gets slammed with sunshine all day and of course that wall becomes hot .
    The heat stays in the wall well into the evening radiating heat inwards . So she needs to put something in place to cool that wall down .

    From many miles away I've said to get battens attached to that wall . Vertical battens . And then attach horizontal ( fake ) planking to the battens . Covering the entire wall .
    It's not planks . It's those boards that look like compressed asbestos and have a grain pressed into them to look like wood .

    So my one single question is ...... do we leave it like that with a gap behind the planking ? A gap containing only air ( with an opening at the top for the hot air to escape away ) ??
    Or is it significantly better to put insulation materials between the 'planking' and the solid wall ?

    Which produces another question ....
    Whatever the consensus is ( insulation or air ) what size of gap should go there ?
    I had assumed one inch because I was thinking of one inch foam insulation panels . But maybe a bigger gap ??
    Thicker foam panels . Or just a wider gap with no foam insulation panels at all ?

    With appreciation .

    Wasp

  2. #2
    CCBW JPPR2's Avatar
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    Hey Waspy welcome back....

    Quick question, why not plant a big tree to cover the wall. It is cheap to have a big mature tree moved in if you have room. I have one wall that got beat by the afternoon sun. I planted trees that shade it enough so it cannot saturate and no more heat.

    As for air gaps, keep in mind that will definitely become home for numerous critters. Some quite annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    A gap containing only air ( with an 30mm opening at the top for the hot air to escape away ) ??
    And a 30mm gap at the bottom to, allow air to flow in, up the gap and out at the top. I would also suggest netting top, bottom and ends, so nothing makes a home behind your "planking". Whatever size battens are available. Flush the gap out regularly to maintain the gap

    I find drawing a sketch helps the "professional" Thai craftsman.
    A tray full of GOLD is not worth a moment in time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    big tree
    Big trees take years to grow.

    I fear "Missy" wants something finished this week.

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    CCBW JPPR2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhOh View Post
    Big trees take years to grow.

    I fear "Missy" wants something finished this week.
    You can get a full grown tree moved in a few days. Its surprising how cheap it is. They also have hedge type shrubs 3 to 4 meters tall. Just put them in pots in that area.

    Just an option.

    As you and I noted the air gap will house lots of creatures I suspect and nothing is worse than a big Tokay barking away.

    A picture of the area proposed to cover would be helpful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    You can get a full grown tree moved in a few days.
    Yes a saw the

    Quote Originally Posted by JPPR2 View Post
    a big mature tree moved
    after I posted", apologies.

    He did seem to only want to discuss, a gap or insulation.

  7. #7
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    Thank you for the Replies , guys .
    And Happy New Year to you .

    It sounds like you are recommending the air gap rather than putting foam panels in there . But I simply had not thought about how that constructs a home for annoying or venomous ' critters ' . Mesh netting top and bottom ....... still doesn't stop the tinier critters .

    Hmm ..... I imagine there's not a HUGE difference in coolness so perhaps I'd best go with the foam insulation panels in order to prevent the critter potential .

    The trees ..... sound lovely . But it's a higher floor with a balcony that's only really a walkway. Maybe 70 cm wide . No room for any pots holding bushy cooling plant screening .

    I could put up a photo but I haven't done that since Photobucket closed its free service ( the bastards ) and they ripped out all my photos so I don't know what to use to post photos now . Recommendations that work ?
    Anyway the photo would only show a block wall painted blue with a single window . No overhanging shade ( well not much ).

    So ....... what is your vote ?
    An air gap with vents above and below carefully netted to prevent critters ? Or the foam filling the gap ?
    The trees are not a possible . Sadly .
    Later maybe some ivy type things on the outside ----- or maybe not as they might become a spider heaven ??


    Appreciated .


    Wasp

  8. #8
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    Wasp if she's going for a quick fix why not just do something with shade as a short term measure and then in slower time address a more permanent solution. The shade plastic, green / black with some form of knocked up metal frame could be a quick and cheap temporary solution - the trouble is if you got for the baton route it'll probably not last.

    EDIT

    by more permanent i mean to face the wall off with Q Con blocks
    Last edited by NamPikToot; 14-01-2020 at 05:12 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    This is just one question .

    I had a Thread in here about getting the temperature of the house down - cheaply - and it became an interesting read with many suggestions .
    However this is just a simple question about cooling down one wall .


    Missy .... is out in Thailand and I ... am not .
    A problem exists where one wall in particular gets slammed with sunshine all day and of course that wall becomes hot .
    The heat stays in the wall well into the evening radiating heat inwards . So she needs to put something in place to cool that wall down .

    From many miles away I've said to get battens attached to that wall . Vertical battens . And then attach horizontal ( fake ) planking to the battens . Covering the entire wall .
    It's not planks . It's those boards that look like compressed asbestos and have a grain pressed into them to look like wood .

    So my one single question is ...... do we leave it like that with a gap behind the planking ? A gap containing only air ( with an opening at the top for the hot air to escape away ) ??
    Or is it significantly better to put insulation materials between the 'planking' and the solid wall ?

    Which produces another question ....
    Whatever the consensus is ( insulation or air ) what size of gap should go there ?
    I had assumed one inch because I was thinking of one inch foam insulation panels . But maybe a bigger gap ??
    Thicker foam panels . Or just a wider gap with no foam insulation panels at all ?

    With appreciation .

    Wasp
    I would suggest large blinds or put a verandah or even a pergola with vines along that wall. Anything that shades the wall from the sun will be much better than anything else. The heat absorption of an unshaded wall is roughly 5 times that of a shaded wall. If using trees you also get the benefit of transpiration. I assume your roof is insulated. The transmission through the wall will be approx (not knowing the size but assuming concrete) will be between 1 to 2 k/w. In other words if you turn on the A/C, around 1 plus kilowatts of your A/C cooling load is coming from that one wall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    carefully netted to prevent critters ?
    I did suggesting flushing the gap occasionally. The timing the flushing liquid would be subject to the "critter contagion". But that would be another question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    the photo would only show a block wall painted blue with a single window
    That depends on whether your wife was at the window and what she was wearing.

  11. #11
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    NamPikToot ...... thank you .

    I was going for a permanent answer ..... for which I envisioned aluminium battens . They would surely last ?

    The Q Cons ....... well there's only about 70 cm available as its a narrow walkway out there . The thickness of the Q Cons plus the Air Gap turns the walkway into a very very narrow ledge . If there was the space then I would certainly do the Q Cons .



    W.

  12. #12
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    OhOh "I did suggesting flushing the gap occasionally. The timing the flushing liquid would be subject to the "critter contagion". But that would be another question. "

    You did indeed suggest the flushing .
    I'm taking that you are inclined to the air gap without the foam panels . So I am persuaded that way right now .

    W.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasp View Post
    The Q Cons ....... well there's only about 70 cm available as its a narrow walkway out there . The thickness of the Q Cons plus the Air Gap turns the walkway into a very very narrow ledge . If there was the space then I would certainly do the Q Cons ..
    Is the walkway able to be extended? if only by a small amount. You don't need an airgap between the Q Cons and wall just tied straight on imho and i think you can get 10-12cm ones which should probably do the job. If you can extend the path then go thicker.

    Again, just wonder if you need to fix this right away, rushing a solution may give you more trouble than a temporary one and a slower time permanent fix.

  14. #14
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    HughCow : " I would suggest large blinds or put a verandah or even a pergola with vines along that wall. Anything that shades the wall from the sun will be much better than anything else. If you turn on the A/C, around 1 plus kilowatts of your A/C cooling load is coming from that one wall. "

    Thank you Hugh . I can see that Blinds would only be beneficial . Good . But I can see them being left permanently in one position and be flexing around in the occasional thunderstorm .
    For the cost involved I think I might as well bang up the Battens and Boards leaving airflow gaps . Netting and Flushing .

    Your words -- greatly appreciated .


    Wasp
    Last edited by Wasp; 14-01-2020 at 06:06 PM.

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    It's a simple to install, cheap fix, with easily obtained materials.

    Hera is a sticker to place on the bottom right hand corner.


  16. #16
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    NamPikToot
    " Is the walkway able to be extended? if only by a small amount. You don't need an airgap between the Q Cons and wall ."

    At some time in the future when old Granny finally kicks off and we take down her filthy wooden shack there will be lots of room . But right now there's a car's width of track which gives us no room to extend that walkway .
    there's actually plenty of space INSIDE that house and it would not be a huge intrusion to put the QCons inside and plaster over them .

    Does that sound like it would do the job ?

    W.

  17. #17
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    Wasp you could put the QCon inside but you'll still have a wall outside acting as a heat sink and i assume the heat is felt on the two adjacent walls as it will transfer so whilst the Qcon may solve the inside end wall issue you may still get heating up on the two adjacent ones.

  18. #18
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    "Wasp you could put the QCon inside but you'll still have a wall outside acting as a heat sink and the heat will transfer "

    Yes the heat will also be in one connected wall but not so much on the other connected wall . Just a little and not a big bother .
    I meant this to be a solution for two walls really but I didn't want to get complicated about that .
    If I do Q Con inside do I leave a gap ?

  19. #19
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    Wasp, if you are doing it inside and you can go 20cm thick i don't think you'd need a gap as the QCon is very effective at stopping heat transfer, thinner and i would leave a gap and vents top and bottom on the outside wall.

    If you have a few ideas ref the QCon use it may pay to take them to somewhere like an Siam Cement Group (SCG) shop and put them to them so get their ideas on what may work best.

    The QCon can go up very quickly if the builder is used to using it and it cuts easily, i would just ensure the builder ties it to the existing wall properly with either wall ties and or some thin steel bar, particularly is you have an air gap.

    If you go internal think about the need to relocate any electric and water. QCon is also not vert strong for hanging stuff on.

    You need to get some professional advice though....I am not a builder btw just a keen amateur with experience over some years

  20. #20
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    Wasp

    I would think somethoing like this is what you need to shade the wall. I did it to give me shelter from the rain for my equipment but it work just as well to keep the sun off.

    As for posting pictures on here it is now really quite simple compared to the old days. Just use the "Insert Image" button and select "from computer".

    Cooling down a Wall .-shed42-jpg

    good to see you posting here again but where's the humour?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cooling down a Wall .-shed42-jpg  

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NamPikToot View Post
    Wasp, if you are doing it inside and you can go 20cm thick i don't think you'd need a gap as the QCon is very effective at stopping heat transfer .

    I would just ensure the builder ties it to the existing wall properly with either wall ties and or some thin steel bar .

    If you go internal think about the need to relocate any electric and water. QCon is also not vert strong for hanging stuff on.

    Well NamPikToot ............. You have taken me to a decision about all this .

    I'm going to tell her to go the route of Battens and Boards on the outside leaving a One inch air gap . On the Outside .
    Let's see how much difference that gives . And if its not enough then we'll add 20 cm Q Cons on the inside .
    Plus three fans .

    It's a vast room and I like that .... but it's too big to go with a/c . Apart from the vastness of the room there are gaps to Downstairs . We would be trying to a/c a small Mall .

    Thank you for the help .

    That would be the end of this Thread .


    Wasp

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    Quote Originally Posted by ootai View Post
    Wasp

    I would think somethoing like this is what you need to shade the wall. I did it to give me shelter from the rain for my equipment but it work just as well to keep the sun off.

    As for posting pictures on here it is now really quite simple compared to the old days. Just use the "Insert Image" button and select "from computer".

    Cooling down a Wall .-shed42-jpg

    good to see you posting here again but where's the humour?

    Hi oots !!

    Yesterday I actually started reading your house-building thread once again .
    It's an excellent Thread .

    " Where's the humour ? "
    Well ..... the humour pissed off a few people and in the end their misery turned round and pissed ME off too .
    It's much more difficult for me to write a serious Thread like this one .
    But I was looking for a straightforward choice between 2 options so I behaved nicely .

    There are many many dry , factual , unhumorous and EXCELLENT Threads in this Construction zone . Yours is a very direct one . Very factual and for me its a lodestone of information with excellent photos . But I didn't ever have holes dug like you did , concrete poured and frames being built . The Indolent Brother was always more interesting to me . Plus LadyPig , LadyMango and LadyBed .

    Alas --- the story was told and then Photobucket eliminated all my photos and destroyed the whole Thread .

    Crushed I am , oots .

    Just a small crushed Wasp ..

    wasp

  23. #23
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    OK .

    This Thread has come swiftly to its end . I'm only posting now to say 2 things .

    1) Thank you people for your guidance . Very useful .

    and 2) ...... Purely to see if I can Post a photo again after the Photobucket trauma .
    So here I'm trying to Post a photo of the hot wall ( X ) and its pal round the corner ( Y ) .



    Cooling down a Wall .-hot-wall-jpg

    Thank you again .

    Wasp

    It worked !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cooling down a Wall .-hot-wall-jpg  

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    ^Impressive columns, Greek marble?

    My last addition is IF you go the internal Q block route in the future you could make a thermal chimney

    Leave some opening in the new Q block wall, along the floor, with grills to regulate the air flow into the cavity between the two walls. The internal air will be sucked out of the room as the exterior block wall will heat the air. The air rises and escapes at the top. You will have a cooling affect on the interior room wall plus air movement inside the room as it is sucked into the cavity.

    Cooling down a Wall .-2061355_orig-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cooling down a Wall .-2061355_orig-jpg  

  25. #25
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    Wasp,
    I have presented it here once already: In an abandoned house I bought and renovated I have covered the existing walls by outside insulation - as opposed to new extension walls by double cinder blocks with cavity (in order not to transfer the heat inside into the room).

    It needs vertical battens fixed to the wall, 1 - 2 - 3cm thick - as per available foam thickness that will come in-between them. On the same battens planks of artificial wood - Shera - are screwed in.

    This made the existing single wall (by blocks) of same property as the double blocks - no heat on the inside wall felt when touching evenings after day of strong sunshine - as was the case before.

    Cooling down a Wall .-15041013-jpgCooling down a Wall .-15041014-jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cooling down a Wall .-15041013-jpg   Cooling down a Wall .-15041014-jpg  

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