Thread: Small Diesel Generator

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

I have a breaker box by my front door

Rick, Exactly how is this breaker panel wired?

Does the 1 aircon you plan to use have its own dedicated breaker & circuit within the breaker panel?

Does the 1 bedroom have its own circuit and own breaker for the outlets in that room? Or is it shared with another room?

And in the location of the 2 fridges, is that another circuit?

Do can you post a pic of your breaker box setup for the house?

just my ha'path re changeover arrangement.

Just wire a high wattage plug socket (bayonet type) off domestic side of your main breaker in domestic unit.
When grid power off cut off main breaker, cut off any distribution breakers you do not want to be fed by genny.Plug in your genny and go..

You could wire in a buzzer or light with switch on grid side so you will know when power comes back.

Be aware that the genny power is 'floating' so effectively your house ground circuit is not relevant/active when on genny power. Possibly some generators solve this problem?

Originally Posted by crepitas

Possibly some generators solve this problem?

Usually have a provision (welded bolt of some sort) to bolt on a ground pigtail from the gen-set frame to 'earth'. These small ones I dunno if they have it. A simple poke around the genny to see how the 3rd pin is configured - you could probably add one easy enough.

Originally Posted by crepitas

Be aware that the genny power is 'floating' so effectively your house ground circuit is not relevant/active when on genny power.

But as far as this is concerned, not sure I follow. Earthing is an independent part and still works regardless of supply. Even mains power come into the home with only 2 wires. (Assuming single phase) Line and Neutral. The earth is a 3rd addition. The gen-set is just replacing mains power (depending on how its wired etc....)

Originally Posted by crepitas

You could wire in a buzzer or light with switch on grid side so you will know when power comes back.

This is a cool idea. I like the buzzer. Maybe a pair of something like this, one for the genny and one for the mains, just to keep an eye on stuff:

??????????? 80 ??? 300????? 100 Amps ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????? | Lazada.co.th

???? 500????? 100 Amps ??????????????????????????????????????????????+??? ? (???) ??? | Lazada.co.th

Slick..power from a genny does not have polarity..no live or neutral per se since it derives from the equivalent of a transformer secondary coil. Grid relies on neutral ground return.

Dunno but if one must have backup 240v perhaps a long cable to ones vehicle and an inverter may answer.

Personally a few hours power outage is no big deal..silence quite pleasant..keep beer fridge door closed, candles, phone LED light or rubber cutters headlamp enables me to read and find the bottle opener. Have propane for cooking of course. ..55

Originally Posted by crepitas

derives from the equivalent of a transformer secondary coil.

So basically, what you're saying is that when running on the generator, the system will not recognize a path to earth at all. Not even 'earth' just the "N" side of the phase?

How would the 3rd pin on the generators socket work? Basically re-route to the generators "N" side?

Excuse the terminology I'm not an electrician - jack of all trades, master of none here.

Originally Posted by crepitas

Be aware that the genny power is 'floating' so effectively your house ground circuit is not relevant/active when on genny power

Well this might solve the OP's question about his shower? 555

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

borrowed video content

From a sales outfit no less.

Originally Posted by Slick

Originally Posted by crepitas

derives from the equivalent of a transformer secondary coil.

So basically, what you're saying is that when running on the generator, the system will not recognize a path to earth at all. Not even 'earth' just the "N" side of the phase?

How would the 3rd pin on the generators socket work? Basically re-route to the generators "N" side?

Excuse the terminology I'm not an electrician - jack of all trades, master of none here.

I had a cheapy genny on my boat..three pin plug..the third (grnd) pin went to the chassis.

Neutral on the grid is ground that is why you get a belt when your body acts as an easy path to ground from live. Actually if you had only live feeding your house and you supplied a local ground then you would have power. Some domestic wiring actually bonds the neutral to local ground.

The ground wiring in a house does not in fact prevent shock only a GFI/Safetycut will do that. Grounds on appliances prevent fires and a live chassis..and should blow a breaker in the event of a short. If however the short is high resistance (not full short) the breaker will not blow and the chassis sits live waiting for you to touch it..usually you would get a small belt wake up call.

So actually the lack of ground on genny power is not dangerous unless somehow you get across both leads.

Hmm going in circles here....but basically the domestic ground does not protect from shorts when on genny power because the genny does not have a neutral ground return. I have no idea how genny power would be viewed by a safety cut.


Confused?..yeah me too..55

It would appear that if one is using devices plugged into the receptacles on a generator then no additional grounding is required. If however one is connecting the generator to a house system then the generator must be connected to a grounding rod.

So that would be either a grounding rod next to the generator or it can be wired to the house ground rod through the breaker box ground bus.

There is lots of information on the interweb about this stuff.

Originally Posted by crepitas

I have no idea how genny power would be viewed by a safety cut.

If what you are saying is true then it wouldn't ever trip a safety-cut RCBO.

Offshore everything is run from generator power and everything is 'earthed' or 'grounded' by bonding everything to the ships 'frame' as it were.

It appears it will come down to what provisions the generator has for bonding to earth and if the generator as Neutral bonded with the frame etc... Then you could ground-rod and bond the generator to the mass of the earth and use your RCBO's & earthing in your house. Its called a "MEN Connection" apparently.

But I guess the power is a bit safer than mains power as its not inherently bonded to earth anyway and you would have to really try to L/N short yourself, in which case an RCBO wouldn't do anything anyway. But I can still think up a few ways to manage to kill yourself with it

Anyway you are basically right and I found this article helpful in clarifying a few things:

Electrical bonding systems in portable generators - Electrical connection

Rick, mine is a SAKARI EC3000CSX, it came from ToolPro Udon and has been great, large petrol tank and runs about 14hrs between refills, runs an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump, just not the kettle, microwave or shower heaters, just turnoff the main isolator from the mains plug it into a socket in the garage about 30 metres from the main house and away you go, so easy.

Originally Posted by mykthemin

Rick, mine is a SAKARI EC3000CSX, it came from ToolPro Udon and has been great, large petrol tank and runs about 14hrs between refills, runs an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump, just not the kettle, microwave or shower heaters, just turnoff the main isolator from the mains plug it into a socket in the garage about 30 metres from the main house and away you go, so easy.

Can you post pics of this setup, or even better a phone video walkthrough of your kit?

I just looked up that genset and its only a 14 amp unit. I want to know how you make it happen, and Im sure there are several others that would love to know as well.

Could also save a lot of cash for other posters considering the same thing here in Thailand with residential electricity issues.

http://www.jojothai.com/เครื่องปั่นไฟซาการิ_sakari_4kw

The trip is 20 amp on the generator, it stands on the floor of my workshop and is just plugged in to the garage circuit when required and feeds back to the house so easy. How simple do you want it, no black magic, plug and go, no secrets.

See here,???????????????????????? SAKARI : EC3000CXS #4614386

Originally Posted by mykthemin

Rick, mine is a SAKARI EC3000CSX, it came from ToolPro Udon and has been great, large petrol tank and runs about 14hrs between refills, runs an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump, just not the kettle, microwave or shower heaters, just turnoff the main isolator from the mains plug it into a socket in the garage about 30 metres from the main house and away you go, so easy.

Hmmmm. Sounds good and pretty much what I am trying to do. I have no active well pump. Can you go into a little more depth on how you have connected the gen set to the house main?

Originally Posted by mykthemin

Rick, mine is a SAKARI EC3000CSX, it came from ToolPro Udon and has been great, large petrol tank and runs about 14hrs between refills, runs an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump, just not the kettle, microwave or shower heaters, just turnoff the main isolator from the mains plug it into a socket in the garage about 30 metres from the main house and away you go, so easy.

Bt56.5K is that a reasonable price?

http://www.wuthardware.com/store/pro...ระ

That and a UPS and you'd never be cut off from TD Rick.

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

That being said to avoid accidental overload of a generator I still think that having separate receptacles and a separate AC is the way to go. Otherwise the system has to be policed and is not idiot proof. Which might be important if one goes on holiday and the BIL or FIL or the friend of a cousin, who knows the uncle of the trusted friend you entrusted with house sitting decides the power has been off for too long and wants to run two AC's and both TV's and, and, and...

Yes, two of the cousins are relatively clever people but the others do not have a clue about electricity or anything else for that matter. The system has to be totally safe because if it isn't they will find a way of screwing up.

The way forward for me is to buy the best quality generator that I can afford. I want "clean" electricity more than I want lots of it. Everything will depend on availability of suitable products.

I have been looking at all sorts of things relating to energy and water. Thailand is totally suited to the use of solar power. The government do not seem keen on pushing green energy and are happy for the country to depend on gas for their power stations. Electricity is relatively cheap in Thailand and there is little incentive for Thai people to consider solar panels. Also, they are too expensive for ordinary Thai people.

Without rambling on too much it will suffice for me to say that I am now considering the possibility of using solar, mains and generator power.

The solar power would be used for cooling fans in the roof during the day time initially. The main supply to the house would be used for everything else and this would be backed up by the generator when that supply was cut.

We have a well which has been filled in and I am very keen to reopen it. I will know in a few weeks if this is feasible and if it can be done at comparatively little cost. If so a future use of solar power would be daytime pumping of water.

I have to admit to having a somewhat childish interest in this and would love to explore the possibilities of solar power. The object of the exercise is not to save money and I will almost certainly involve myself in costs which might never be recovered. I will be doing it for personal amusement.

In the UK the principal use of solar panels is an attempt to reduce electricity bills. Solar generated energy is fed into the national grid and payment is made for that electricity. At night the house uses mains electricity at the usual unit cost. If most of the household electricity is used during the day there is a reduction in the electricity bill. The panels are fitted on the roof and the owner does nothing afterwards. He just hopes his bills are lower. The weather in the UK is generally poor and solar production is variable. Thailand has the perfect weather for solar power.

If anybody has knowledge of using solar energy in Thailand it may be worth opening a new thread.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Originally Posted by mykthemin

Rick, mine is a SAKARI EC3000CSX, it came from ToolPro Udon and has been great, large petrol tank and runs about 14hrs between refills, runs an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump, just not the kettle, microwave or shower heaters, just turnoff the main isolator from the mains plug it into a socket in the garage about 30 metres from the main house and away you go, so easy.

Hmmmm. Sounds good and pretty much what I am trying to do. I have no active well pump. Can you go into a little more depth on how you have connected the gen set to the house main?

My water pump is to pump from storage tank to house to maintain a constant pressure, connection is too easy, lead from generator has a plug on the end so just plug it in to a socket and backfeed the system after turning of the main isolator, too simple. Generator was about 12000 wnen I got it a few years ago now, worth every baht in my opinion, no need for all these fancy switching systems in my opinion.

218 and still going

Originally Posted by mykthemin

My water pump is to pump from storage tank to house to maintain a constant pressure, connection is too easy, lead from generator has a plug on the end so just plug it in to a socket and backfeed the system after turning of the main isolator, too simple. Generator was about 12000 wnen I got it a few years ago now, worth every baht in my opinion, no need for all these fancy switching systems in my opinion.

Yeah but can you post pics of your generator setup and an explanation of how you have it wired in Thailand?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by mykthemin

Rick, mine is a SAKARI EC3000CSX, it came from ToolPro Udon and has been great, large petrol tank and runs about 14hrs between refills, runs an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump, just not the kettle, microwave or shower heaters, just turnoff the main isolator from the mains plug it into a socket in the garage about 30 metres from the main house and away you go, so easy.

Bt56.5K is that a reasonable price?

http://www.wuthardware.com/store/pro...ระ

That and a UPS and you'd never be cut off from TD Rick.

Hahaha. ToolPro had the Sakari 3000, 6500, 8500 and 10,000 all in stock. Leaning toward the 65000kva and I think it would let me still spar with you during an outage.

Originally Posted by Slick

Originally Posted by mykthemin

My water pump is to pump from storage tank to house to maintain a constant pressure, connection is too easy, lead from generator has a plug on the end so just plug it in to a socket and backfeed the system after turning of the main isolator, too simple. Generator was about 12000 wnen I got it a few years ago now, worth every baht in my opinion, no need for all these fancy switching systems in my opinion.

Yeah but can you post pics of your generator setup and an explanation of how you have it wired in Thailand?

Read above or do you not understand english, so simple???

Originally Posted by slick

Yeah but can you post pics of your generator setup and an explanation of how you have it wired in Thailand?

Why don't you post a drawing of your understanding of his set up? Then he will tell you if you are correct.

Originally Posted by mykthemin

Read above or do you not understand english, so simple???

Frankly I just wanted to see proof and I was trying not to be too much of a dick about it. Im open to being proven wrong and it could possibly save people some money.

I Just dont see how this is possible using:

Originally Posted by mykthemin

an airon in the bedroom, 2 large freezers, 1 huge fridge, 2 55 inch TV's and as many fans and lights as required and the water pump,

With this:

2800W 6.5HP 15L 13,500 บาท เอาไปแปลงใช้แก๊สก็ได้ครับ
สินค้ามี 2 เครื่อง เหมาลดได้ครับ

AC 220 V 1 ph. 50 Hz 12 A
DC 12V 8.3 A

????????????? SAKARI EC3000CXS - Truck2Hand.com