Thread: Building a guesthouse on empty land

Originally Posted by Droozy

Making the plans on 80% occupancy and bare minimum 60%.

Seriously you should be costing it all out a feasible based upon 40% occupancy. If you can pay your way at that level you will be OK. Banking on 80% is daft. Hardly a place in Thailand that will register 80% occupancy through a year.

Have you also factored in graft money? The local officials /cops /army all coming along with their hands out asking for cash?

If I was you I would forget all about the loans. If you have the cash, buy something with it so that no matter what, you have the land and buildings fully paid for. If you need to shut up shop at least you own something solid. Well, your minority stake in a company does. Which might be the point that stops you anyway. Then build up slowly with a couple of rooms opened at a time- when you are turning people away open more rooms and make it pay for itself.

A few resorts for sale in the Khao Yai area. Call them up and ask why?

Thailand Commercial Property - Retail, office, industrial commercial properties for sale/rent | DDProperty - Page 2[]=C&distance=0.5&district_code=TH3021&submit=Searc h

Sorry if I am being very negative - I've seen a few people piss away too much money on these ventures, and they like you had decided they are going to do it no matter what, and seemingly had about as much a clue about running a resort /hospitality business as you do - basically none. Its not something you can just "have a go" at. Those that are successful with no experience are the very very rare ones - just have a look at the thousands of hotels, restaurants, bars, resorts for sale every year in Thailand; bought by people thinking it will be easy to learn the ropes, and finding out how quickly these places can empty your pockets.

You're very direct , pseudolus .

Very hard and factual .

I gotta say I admire that .



Wasp

pseudolus, agree with everything you say, very few farangs make it, few that I know in the hotel game that have made it, were here 20 years ago. Bought in places that were out of the way, the tourist came years later.

Won't agree on the graft money thing as much, you pay that to get around things, buy favours, or look the other way stuff, have girls, break booze laws etc.
Stay totally legal, have a respected accountant, keep out of sin city stuff, not much the out stretch hands can do. At least in my area that's how it works and this isn't goody 2 shoes country, drugs, logging, bar girls, guns, smuggling, land encroachment, killings.
Stay legal stay safe. Jim

This guy can do all the business plans he wants, research stuff , gather untold information on Thailand and how to do business in Thailand but if has not got real long term in country experience under his belt he will be left out on a limb.

One must get to know how the Thais operate and how the county rolls before even thinking about investing one Baht in this country.

I admire his forward thinking but at the same time would hate to see him piss all his money away and lose his mind at the same time.

Can't tell this to a newbie though, especially when they are in the emotional involvement period.

I've seen farang loose the whole lot after being in business for 20 odd years and more.

One guy I know had to ring his parents to front him the Airfare home, he was 50 years old, back off to Germany at that age with sweet piss all and not one pot to piss in.

Two others scampered back at the same time with nothing.

Aussie guy 65 same thing, back to Perth destitute after being here 20 odd years.

Happens heaps.

Beware the young punter.

Originally Posted by Wasp

You're very direct , pseudolus .

Very hard and factual .

I gotta say I admire that .



Wasp

Why are you posting in white as many cannot see. But hey!

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Why are you posting in white as many cannot see. But hey!

Neal, what color is your background? Mine is a dark gray/blue (I thought the default color), and white is just fine. Oooops, sorry Wasp.

I will add two points.

1. If you are not there managing hands on, your staff will not maintain service standards you have set, and will steal you blind.

2. If successful, your partner(s) will steal it from you, or you will have an accident...

Originally Posted by Necron99

I will add two points.

1. If you are not there managing hands on, your staff will not maintain service standards you have set, and will steal you blind.

2. If successful, your partner(s) will steal it from you, or you will have an accident...

This reality will certainly put a damper on any dreams he might have engaged in...

Originally Posted by terry57

One guy I know had to ring his parents to front him the Airfare home, he was 50 years old, back off to Germany at that age with sweet piss all and not one pot to piss in.

Didn't his name start with F? (just curious what hapenned to him, he was with me quite a time, had to be frequently helped by his old good father - beside myself)

Originally Posted by terry57

I've seen farang loose the whole lot after being in business for 20 odd years and more.

One guy I know had to ring his parents to front him the Airfare home, he was 50 years old, back off to Germany at that age with sweet piss all and not one pot to piss in.

Two others scampered back at the same time with nothing.



Beware the young punter.

I'm not getting into competition with terry57 here . I'm agreeing completely with his warnings .

My mate ....... 68 now ....... got taken for everything . By Thais he trusted of course .

30 million Baht .

Yes it does happen heaps as terry says .


Wasp

Originally Posted by terry57

This guy can do all the business plans he wants, research stuff , gather untold information on Thailand and how to do business in Thailand but if has not got real long term in country experience under his belt he will be left out on a limb.

One must get to know how the Thais operate and how the county rolls before even thinking about investing one Baht in this country.

I admire his forward thinking but at the same time would hate to see him piss all his money away and lose his mind at the same time.

Can't tell this to a newbie though, especially when they are in the emotional involvement period.

I've seen farang loose the whole lot after being in business for 20 odd years and more.

One guy I know had to ring his parents to front him the Airfare home, he was 50 years old, back off to Germany at that age with sweet piss all and not one pot to piss in.

Two others scampered back at the same time with nothing.

Aussie guy 65 same thing, back to Perth destitute after being here 20 odd years.

Happens heaps.

Beware the young punter.

And then there are the numerous, and successful, punters who challenge your ponders of myth and stereotype.

Observations from real experience and exposure.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Originally Posted by terry57

This guy can do all the business plans he wants, research stuff , gather untold information on Thailand and how to do business in Thailand but if has not got real long term in country experience under his belt he will be left out on a limb.

One must get to know how the Thais operate and how the county rolls before even thinking about investing one Baht in this country.

I admire his forward thinking but at the same time would hate to see him piss all his money away and lose his mind at the same time.

Can't tell this to a newbie though, especially when they are in the emotional involvement period.

I've seen farang loose the whole lot after being in business for 20 odd years and more.

One guy I know had to ring his parents to front him the Airfare home, he was 50 years old, back off to Germany at that age with sweet piss all and not one pot to piss in.

Two others scampered back at the same time with nothing.

Aussie guy 65 same thing, back to Perth destitute after being here 20 odd years.

Happens heaps.

Beware the young punter.

And then there are the numerous, and successful, punters who challenge your ponders of myth and stereotype.

Observations from real experience and exposure.

Sorry mate, but the winners are very very few and far between. If you are one of them, good for you

^^

Jeff,

You seem to be quite the cock lately, you are following me around being quite the arsehole.

Best you go away for a while EH.

All I am are doing is trying to extend my real life knowledge to a young guy who does not know what dealing with Thais entails.

He is a newbie, he wants to spend big money in Thailand, he has no experience.

We are trying to help this young guy.

Cheers EH Jeff.

Good boy Jeff. Run along EH.

Booking.com: 81 hotels in Khao Yai, Thailand. Book your hotel now!
Khaoyai Hotels

I have just been looking through the above website , and even next July 2015 , many places are claiming to have "Just one room left" "We expect to sell out within the next few days" etc etc .
Which suggests that the information about demand isnt correct and unreliable, unless nearly every accommodation is indeed full all year round , even ten months in advance , which I cannot beleive

Originally Posted by jamescollister

very few farangs make it,

True but same can be said for Thais. Pseudo along with others here give good advice.
No matter the business if one has no experience or training in the business area, "don't do it".

Business plans based on real rather than hoped for results an absolute must. 80% is a hope. Not going to happen. Don't do it.

Nasty's comment about marketing is spot on. "Build it and they will come" from the movie Field of Dreams is just that. A dream. Don't do it.

Appears you have your mind set. Although hope is not good business strategy, I hope it works out for you.

I wonder what trade the OP is in at the minute? Knowing this will often give an insight into his personality type and will illuminate if he does have a slighty better chance of not ending up as "another story of losing everything".

Originally Posted by quimbian corholla

Pseudolus's method of gauging availability by hitting up the latestays and ratestogo type portals is a good enough way to get enough info to make an educated guess as to the state of their expected occupancy in the short term but if you are trying to apply it to 10 months away you are wasting your time.

Indeed. Fluke is just a pest who seems to follow me about trying to disprove anything I said. This latest one is another example of his desperation to point score, especially in an area he knows nothing about, being completely off the mark.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by jamescollister

very few farangs make it,

True but same can be said for Thais. Pseudo along with others here give good advice.
No matter the business if one has no experience or training in the business area, "don't do it".

Business plans based on real rather than hoped for results an absolute must. 80% is a hope. Not going to happen. Don't do it.

Nasty's comment about marketing is spot on. "Build it and they will come" from the movie Field of Dreams is just that. A dream. Don't do it.

Appears you have your mind set. Although hope is not good business strategy, I hope it works out for you.

Small Thai resorts have a distinctive advantage, family run, no wages, lots of short time, cash in hand. Extended family live on site, probably owned the land prior, so no need to turn a real profit.
Thais don't run things [small time] to make profits, high tourist areas different story, but you pay for location and you pay big.

Originally Posted by quimbian corholla

Originally Posted by Fluke

Which suggests that the information about demand isnt correct and unreliable, unless nearly every accommodation is indeed full all year round , even ten months in advance , which I cannot beleive

It's not correct and reliable one year out. Unless you are the reservations manager of a hotel you aren't going to ever really know what they've got on their books anyway.

Pseudolus's method of gauging availability by hitting up the latestays and ratestogo type portals is a good enough way to get enough info to make an educated guess as to the state of their expected occupancy in the short term but if you are trying to apply it to 10 months away you are wasting your time.

Only if a hotel is hosting some sort of international conference or the world cup is coming to town or something will they really have locked-down reservations that far out; they could well have allocations out to agents that total 200% or more of occupancy if the DoSM knows what he is doing safe in the knowledge that allocations taper off towards a given check-in date if they aren't taken up and the rooms become freed up for the hotel to sell anywhere else they feel like.

Yes., but I was just pointing out that the website in question is an unreliable method of ascertaining occupancy rates .
The website suggests that most resorts are close to selling out and being full in the short term , but they also say that for in one years time, which suggests that the "nearly full" claims arent true .
Yes, there are other better ways of finding out occupancy rates, but I was just saying that the website in question isnt a good indicator

Also factor in land prices for chanote land in Khao Yai. Can be up in the region of 10,000,000 per rai. Cheaper land around the 4 mil mark!

Originally Posted by Tassini

Also factor in land prices for chanote land in Khao Yai. Can be up in the region of 10,000,000 per rai. Cheaper land around the 4 mil mark!

Cheaper land is unlikely to have zoning to get planing permission for a resort.
That's the problem with many of these ideas, farangs think they can put up bars, resorts, homes anywhere. Not so and as we see now things can change even for the Thais.