Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Member youneverknow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Online
    30-09-2013 @ 04:39 PM
    Posts
    535

    Google friend or foe?

    GOOGLE: If You Use Gmail, You Have 'No Legitimate Expectation Of Privacy'

    If You Use Gmail, You Should Have 'No Legitimate Expectation Of Privacy' - Business Insider




    If you happen to be one of the 400 million people who use Google's Gmail service for sending and receiving emails, you shouldn't have any expectation of privacy, according to a court briefing obtained by the Consumer Watchdog website.

    In a motion filed last month by Google to have a class action complaint dismissed, Google's lawyers reference a 1979 ruling, holding that people who turn over information to third parties shouldn't expect that information to remain private.

    From the filing:
    Just as a sender of a letter to a business colleague cannot be surprised that the recipient’s assistant opens the letter, people who use web-based email today cannot be surprised if their communications are processed by the recipient’s ECS provider in the course of delivery. Indeed, “a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties.” Smith v. Maryland, 442 U.S. 735, 743-44 (1979). In particular, the Court noted that persons communicating through a service provided by an intermediary (in the Smith case, a telephone call routed through a telephone company) must necessarily expect that the communication will be subject to the intermediary’s systems. For example, the Court explained that in using the telephone, a person “voluntarily convey[s] numerical information to the telephone company and ‘expose[s]’ that information to its equipment in the ordinary course of business.” Id. at 744 (emphasis added).

    The lengthy brief goes on to maintain that Google uses automated processes to sift through email for the purposes of providing spam filters, relevant advertising, and other features of the Gmail service. The opposition complaint however, takes issue with this, saying the company is instead trying "to capture the [email] authors' actual thoughts for Google's secret use."
    “Google has finally admitted they don’t respect privacy,” said John M. Simpson, Consumer Watchdog’s Privacy Project director, in a news release. “People should take them at their word; if you care about your email correspondents’ privacy don’t use Gmail.”

    Google argues the terms of service and privacy policy of Gmail lays out their automated processes of scanning email — and by agreeing to use the service, users are bound to those terms.

    It's interesting to note that a concurring Supreme Court opinion in 2012 had Justice Sonia Sotomayer citing the same case as Google (Smith v. Maryland) — but argued instead that business transactions over the phone or internet are not automatically disentitled to Fourth Amendment protection.

    The company's reasoning shouldn't come as a huge shock. Google Executive Chairman Eric Schmidt told a CNBC interviewer in 2009 the company is bound to the federal terms of the U.S. PATRIOT Act.

    "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place," Schmidt said. "But if you really need that kind of privacy, the reality is that search engines, including Google, do retain this information for some time. And ... we're all subject, in the United States, to the Patriot Act, and it is possible that that information could be made available to the authorities."

    Here's the full brief:
    Google Motion 061313



    -


    I used to think Google was some sort of underdog in the beginning and Microsoft was the evil empire but these days I tend to think Google is a monster as well. It's business I guess. Still, I'd rather support an underdog or the rebels if possible.

    I'm dumping the google search to try this one out.

    https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...o-for-firefox/

    Any suggestions for a good trustworthy (for the moment at least) email without a giant corporation behind it?

  2. #2
    Tax Consultant
    Thormaturge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    9,892
    I never use Gmail or any other public email facility for business and whenever I see companies using Hotmail or similar I just cannot take them seriously.

    You need to be using your own server.

  3. #3
    Whopping Member
    benbaaa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Last Online
    06-06-2017 @ 03:52 PM
    Location
    In the comfy chair
    Posts
    5,549
    I see the revelations by Snowden as a huge opportunity for entrepreneurs to develop secure communications systems for ordinary people. That fat-headed quote from a Google spokesperson about "maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place" is why Google's days are doomed. When most correspondence is by email, of course there are legitimate reasons why law-abiding people may wish to keep things secret. I have emails to and from my doctor. Are Google seriously suggesting that there is no expectation of privacy? If that's their true position, then I'm in the market for another email provider which takes privacy seriously. And so are hundreds of millions of other people.
    The sleep of reason brings forth monsters.

  4. #4
    Thailand Expat Jesus Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Last Online
    22-09-2017 @ 11:00 AM
    Posts
    6,952
    It makes me laugh when people say "If you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem?" Would these people be happy with an actual human body in their living room or workplace watching every move they make? The problem is people have become so disconnected from reality we don't actually know what it means anymore!
    You bullied, you laughed, you lied, you lost!

  5. #5
    Philippine Expat Davis Knowlton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    @
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    17,880
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge View Post
    I never use Gmail or any other public email facility for business and whenever I see companies using Hotmail or similar I just cannot take them seriously.

    You need to be using your own server.
    Precisely.

  6. #6
    Member youneverknow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Online
    30-09-2013 @ 04:39 PM
    Posts
    535
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    It makes me laugh when people say "If you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem?" Would these people be happy with an actual human body in their living room or workplace watching every move they make? The problem is people have become so disconnected from reality we don't actually know what it means anymore!
    Would they be happy seeing every letter and package opened prior to delivery at their homes? Maybe it happens to some people but it's not in the news. The reporters should also put Fedex and UPS on the spot or the government on the spot for not opening the packages containing 'mail' they deliver.

    The government accesses phones and internet traffic because it's easy and unnoticeable I would guess. What hypocrites, what cowards. They know the uproar they could cause in some areas. They abuse when they can.

  7. #7
    disturbance in the Turnip baldrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Today @ 08:19 PM
    Location
    Heidleberg
    Posts
    21,770
    Quote Originally Posted by benbaaa
    then I'm in the market for another email provider which takes privacy seriously. And so are hundreds of millions of other people.
    that provider cannot be based in the USofA - there is a backlash happening against US based tech hosting companies as people have been forced to realise that those companies willingly hand over data to the US TLA's on command.

    lavabit shutdown - but only after having to disclose info ( snowden used it ) - silent mail pre empted and shut down saying they have purged their servers

    hushmail is still going , but for how long

    what really needs to happen is the use of private and public encryption keys needs to become "very fcuking easy for your average PEBKAK " so you can use PGP with a reasonable expectation that the person at the other end can read your email.

    but encryption needs to follow the current best open standards as many new methods are coming online to compromise some of the industry standards of recent years.

  8. #8
    Thailand Expat poorfalang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 04:55 PM
    Location
    in the sticks
    Posts
    1,427
    Google is wrong also is most other public email services ,websites, well actually most of the net,
    go back to the dark side/simple
    6oN3r


    but when you have a society that wants you to know were they go, where they eat, where they shit and more by using facebook and so, what do you expect,

    freenet/tor/ is growing fast, very fast, and you don't have to commit a crime to use it,

    oh you want to be anonymous because ytou have something to hide/BS to that why should you have to know?

    My view anyway, thanks for reading, now let me go back to the farming thread
    Sorry about me horrible speling

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    11-09-2018 @ 12:58 AM
    Posts
    592
    Quote Originally Posted by Thormaturge View Post
    I never use Gmail or any other public email facility for business and whenever I see companies using Hotmail or similar I just cannot take them seriously.

    You need to be using your own server.


    I agree, but Gmail is so much more convenient when you have many business/websites...

  10. #10
    En route
    Cujo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Last Online
    Today @ 07:25 PM
    Location
    Reality.
    Posts
    28,641
    Isn't handing your mail to the postal service handing it to a third party?
    Does this open the door to the postal service being able to open and read your mail if the want to.

  11. #11
    Member
    harrybarracuda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Last Online
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Posts
    62,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus Jones View Post
    It makes me laugh when people say "If you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem?" Would these people be happy with an actual human body in their living room or workplace watching every move they make? The problem is people have become so disconnected from reality we don't actually know what it means anymore!
    Put your tin foil hat back on and don't forget to take your meds.

  12. #12
    Suspended from News & Speakers Corner
    Primo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Online
    22-09-2013 @ 02:53 AM
    Posts
    760
    I try and avoid google as much as I can

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •